IVTC, frame rate, deinterlace etc.

[boosted]

After figuring out file size problems with my encodes, I've got a new one.

Program: Gordian Knot 0.35.0
Source: NTSC DVD 29.970fps progressive
Codec: XviD-1.1.0-Beta2-04042005

DVD2Avi shows it's over 95% film, so I foced film and saved the .d2v project. Then I open it with GK to set the res/bit rate ect. My question is, since I forced film on the source, should I change the frame rate to 23.976 on the bottom? Forced film, or IVTC as I understand it, changes the frame rate during the process. So by that, the encode should end up being 23.976. I also do not know if IVTC changes whether I need to deinterlace or not. DVD2AVI tells me the source is progressive, but I see interlace artifacts. I'm not sure that's due to telecine or it simply IS interlaced. So to simplify

For NTSC DVD encodes using Xvid,
DVD 29.970 progressive -> 29.970/23.976? -> deinterlace?

thanks,
-boosted
ps. the DVD to xvid guide didn't mention what the target frame rate will be after IVTC and whether to deinterlace or not.

[alsyed]

a dvd ntsc file would probably never be 29.97 progressive. DVD2avi shows it to be 95% film because it is seeing the telecining patterns in the file.

it would appear to most systems as a 29.97 interlaced. When you IVTC using the forced film setting, the file will now be progressive 23.976 (film rate). The correct settings for your xvid encodes would be 23.976 after you have selected the forced film option. there is no need at all to deinterlace.

[boosted]

Thank you alsyed! That is exactly what I was looking for. Thank you for the quick reply. Just to satisfy my curiousity, the NTSC DVD IS interlaced to begin with correct? The IVTC process have 2 effects then, changes frame rate, and takes the interlacing out at the same time?

[alsyed]

well, the dvd originally is actually progressive film rate. ie 23.976. A 3:2 pulldown is done when encoded, to make it appear interlaced 29.97, because the only valid frame rates for dvd are 25fps (pal) and 29.97 fps (ntsc).

there is much information here on telecining.
http://www.dvdfile.com/news/special_report/production_a_z/3_2_pulldown.htm

[boosted]

I'll read up on it. Thanks again.

[boosted]

Hmm, as an experiment, I encoded a short clip of a NTSC DVD with lots of motions to 4 versions of xvid avi.

1. 23.976fps no deinterlace
2. 23.976fps kernel deinterlace
3. 29.97fps no deinterlace
4. 29.97fps kernel deinterlace

1. Video is smooth, mostly no interlace artifact, but some areas showed artifact
2. diagonal lines are very jagged, no artifacts
3. similiar to 1, but slight more artifact
4. same as 2

It looks like 23.976fps and 29.97fps have no difference, so I'll encode as a lower fps to give me more bw. But without deinterlacing, (which lowers the quality quite a bit) there are artifacts. What can I do about them? Perhaps I should ask why there are artifacts?

[alsyed]

you can get very technical retrieving the original progressive film sequenced from telecined sources. AViSynth has some excellent filters available.

What is basically happening, is that the forced film sequence in dvd2avi is applying the general 3:2 pattern, but it can be any sort of pattern. When its says 95% film, its is saying that 5% of the time, the pattern is not fitting in with that 3:2 pulldown sequence. Hence, this is why in example 1, you are getting a little bit of field artifacts, when the interlaced fields aren't properly blended.

You could get into avisynth, but be warned, this is technical, and could take some learning and time, so you have to balance up the time taken versus the annoyance of a few artifacts.

[adam]

As stated before, most NTSC DVDs store the content at 23.976fps progressive frames and include 2:3 pulldown flags. These flags instruct the decoder to perform the telecine to 29.97fps interlaced during playback. Forced film merely ignores these flags so you can treat the content as it is stored, 23.976fps progressive.

If dvd2avi reports 95% film then roughly 5% of the content is stored at NTSC (29.97fps) but that 5% is almost universally attributable to the opening and closing credits. You will occasionally see a scene change at NTSC and sometimes an effects shot will be NTSC too, but for the most part if you get a report of 95% film then you can safely treat the entire thing as progressive. I actually recommend setting the start point somewhere after the opening credits before previewing it. I think you'll find that you actually get a report of 100% film now.

In your examples where you saw interlacing, did you use the forced film setting? If so you probably shouldn't be seeing any interlacing.

[boosted]

you can get very technical retrieving the original progressive film sequenced from telecined sources. AViSynth has some excellent filters available.

What is basically happening, is that the forced film sequence in dvd2avi is applying the general 3:2 pattern, but it can be any sort of pattern. When its says 95% film, its is saying that 5% of the time, the pattern is not fitting in with that 3:2 pulldown sequence. Hence, this is why in example 1, you are getting a little bit of field artifacts, when the interlaced fields aren't properly blended.

You could get into avisynth, but be warned, this is technical, and could take some learning and time, so you have to balance up the time taken versus the annoyance of a few artifacts.

I switched to GK because avisynth got ridiculously troublesome. It's very powerful, but when converting a lot of dvds, I simply cannot keep up. I know I can edit the .avs file to include filters of my liking. I just tried Field Deinterlace, Field Deinterlace (no blend) and TomsMos. Which one is usually recommended? Do you have any other deinterlacing filters to suggest? I find that kernel deinterlace creates the most jagged edges while the Field Deinterlace gives me the sharpest of them all. TomsMo gave me a good picture, but details seems to be lost.

[boosted]

As stated before, most NTSC DVDs store the content at 23.976fps progressive frames and include 2:3 pulldown flags. These flags instruct the decoder to perform the telecine to 29.97fps interlaced during playback. Forced film merely ignores these flags so you can treat the content as it is stored, 23.976fps progressive.

If dvd2avi reports 95% film then roughly 5% of the content is stored at NTSC (29.97fps) but that 5% is almost universally attributable to the opening and closing credits. You will occasionally see a scene change at NTSC and sometimes an effects shot will be NTSC too, but for the most part if you get a report of 95% film then you can safely treat the entire thing as progressive. I actually recommend setting the start point somewhere after the opening credits before previewing it. I think you'll find that you actually get a report of 100% film now.

In your examples where you saw interlacing, did you use the forced film setting? If so you probably shouldn't be seeing any interlacing.

I just tried setting the starting and end point in the middle of the show, and it is showing 96% film. This is a TV show, so I don't know if there's any difference in the telecine they use different from a movie. I do know they're shot on film, so it's gotta be 24fps. As for my examples, all 4 of them were forced film.

[adam]

If the actual content of the film/show itself is anything less than 100% film then forced film won't work, or at least if you use it you will get interlacing artifacts. Throughout your show there are apparantly sections that are physically stored as NTSC (29.97fps) mixed in with the otherwise progressive content. Your best option is to disable forced film and run an inverse telecine filter on the entire thing. This should get you to 23.976fps progressive and get rid of all the interlacing artifacs.

TV shows are often stored as NTSC. Usually if dealing with theatrically released movies this is all a non-issue since they are almost always stored as FILM.

[boosted]

If the actual content of the film/show itself is anything less than 100% film then forced film won't work, or at least if you use it you will get interlacing artifacts. Throughout your show there are apparantly sections that are physically stored as NTSC (29.97fps) mixed in with the otherwise progressive content. Your best option is to disable forced film and run an inverse telecine filter on the entire thing. This should get you to 23.976fps progressive and get rid of all the interlacing artifacs.

TV shows are often stored as NTSC. Usually if dealing with theatrically released movies this is all a non-issue since they are almost always stored as FILM.

I've been keeping it NTSC and doing kernel deinterlace, but a few times I ran into frames that skips around. Evidence of the fields being reversed, so I started to experiment the forced film way. Then I find out the video is smoother this way on all my older encodes, so I'm doing them over again.
Is there a way to use GK and still use third party filters? Because the built in deinterlace filter leaves the frame rate at 29.97 and not 23.976. So I'm not sure if it's just deinterlacing or actually doing an IVTC.

I'll experiment with NTSC again using different deinterlace filters. I just found out the "Field Deinterlace" is the IVTC filter coupled with area based deinterlacing. Written by Donald Graft http://neuron2.net/decomb/decombnew.html at least I think this is what GK is using. The decomb.dll file used by GK is the same exact size as on that page. It does IVTC and only deinterlace where needed. This is what I'm looking for. So I'll give it a try. But I'm not sure why the frame is left at 29.97.

[adam]

If the framerate is left at 29.97fps then you aren't doing an IVTC. I believe kernel deinterlace is just a field deinterlacer. Depending on your settings you are either blending the fields or discarding every other one. Decomb is what you need. It is the best IVTC filter by far. Other than that I can't really help you because I don't use GK.

For content stored as FILM on a DVD, forced film gives you the same result as an IVTC would, but obviously requires much less processing so its the ideal solution.

[gadgetguy]

With TV shows I find that often the show is edited after the telecine process. This creates irregular telecine patterns from scene to scene. This is nearly impossible to deinterlace by any automated process.

[manono]

Hi-

The decomb.dll file used by GK is the same exact size as on that page. It does IVTC and only deinterlace where needed.

The Decomb.dll contains FieldDeinterlace, Telecide, and Decimate. The Telecide/Decimate combo is the IVTC. The GKnot default IVTC also has FieldDeinterlace(Blend=True) on by default, in order to catch any stray interlacing that Telecide might leave behind (deinterlace as needed, as you said). FieldDeinterlace by itself just deinterlaces and keeps it at the original framerate.

If you do have to deinterlace (not in this case, it seems), KernelDeint is a better deinterlacer than is FieldDeinterlace. It leaves static areas alone (full resolution) and interpolates motion areas.

[boosted]

Thank you guys, for all your help. gadgetguy is exactly right, they edied the content after telecine. I have an episode that have these "irregular telecine pattern" showing up after half hour into the show. I had to chop up the episode and apply different filters. What a pain. I am unsure which deinterlacer/IVTC combo to use at this point now.

manono you said I should use kernel deinterlace, but my experiments done above showed that the kernel deinterlace caused static areas to be processed as well. Very jagged edges where there weren't any artifacts.(most diagonal lines are) How did you determine that deinterlacing isn't needed in my case? Can you explain further? should I leave it as 29.97fps and run kernel deinterlace. Or forcefilm and run FieldDeinterlace with blending and end up with 23.976fps. Oh and since you have experience with GK, the decomb.dll filter by Donald Graft used in GK IS the FieldDeinterlace? GK just called it differently I assume.

[boosted]

I think I may have found the answer. Using the same segment I tested above, keeping the d2v setting as NTSC. Then I opened it in GK and used the IVTC filter instead of the other deinterlace filters. I checked the resulting avs file just out of curiousity, it turned on both the decomb and IVTC filters. The result is 23.976fps video with no artifacts and sharp diagonal lines. I am happy with this result. Of course more testing's needed on the other episodes.

[manono]

Hi-

As for KernelDeint, in my opinion, the default threshold is too low, and it deinterlaces too much, You have to tweak it, perhaps by turning on the map function, which shows you what's being deinterlaced, and then raising the threshold accordingly. Read the included doc to learn all the options. Although it's not included in GKnot, and it's a bit slower than KernelDeint, TDeint is a bit better.

It looks like you got it done with IVTC. Good going.

[boosted]

I spoke too soon. It's all trial and error. NTSC then IVTC worked one 1 ep and not another. I'll just have to keep trying. For Kernel Deinterlace, do you know if it's tweakable using GK? And If TDeinst can be added?

[akrako1]

Check out this thread...
https://www.videohelp.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=266150

There's been much discussion of IVTC and other types of de-interlacing. Some very good and detailed information floating around...

[edDV]

With TV shows I find that often the show is edited after the telecine process. This creates irregular telecine patterns from scene to scene. This is nearly impossible to deinterlace by any automated process.

Exactly. This almost always the case. Be careful with TV shows.

TV series are often shot on 35mm film to allow format flexibility in the future (e.g. HDTV). A typical series has studio production done in film. Raw clips are converted to digital video on a Rank flying spot scanner and 3:2 is added. A separate transfer is made for 25fps PAL.

Then this material is edited and special effects added in the digital video 29.97 domain. Special effects intensive shows like Star Trek Next Generation will have major portions of the scenes created in digital video at 29.97 native but using "telecined" studio material as elements in the composite. Separate edits are usually done for NTSC and PAL formats.*

The show producers assume that a future HDTV edit will require these effects sequences to be recreated at 1080p or 720p. All layer elements are created and saved for the future with HDTV (or even 35mm film) release in mind.

So the result is a mix of 29.97 (or 25 fps) native and "telecine" material in the same show (even for layers in the same scene). Any effort to "force telecine" on such a show may destroy the effects sequences edited in video. Smooth effects motion will have fields removed and others rearranged by forced IVTC.

Doing this correctly takes more work than that. But remember, this show was never progressive 23.9 fps in the first place. Unless you know what you are doing, I'd keep TV shows in interlace format.

Cheaper budget TV shows will do a NTSC edit only then standards convert a PAL version. In such a sample, field sequences will resemble jibberish.

*When I'm mentioning NTSC and PAL here I don't want it misunderstood. I'm not talking about composite here, at least not since the late 80's. During intermediate production steps, recording is uncompressed component digital CCIR-601 4:2:2 format where NTSC = 720x480 29.97 fps and PAL = 720x576 25 fps. After editing, the edit masters will be uncompressed component digital. These master tapes will be used for commercial DVD creation. Distribution copies that go to TV stations will probably be Digital Betacam (4:2:2), analog component Betacam, or composite NTSC or PAL. What you cap off air will be composite NTSC or PAL.

[boosted]

akrako1, thanks for the link. I've gone through most of them. I'm pretty clear the deinterlacing methods and telecine materials.
The real problem is what gadgetguy and edDV posted. 29.97fps effects are added to telecined films. This is why I'm getting problems with some eps but not all of them. The eps I'm encoding are Stargate SG1 eps. They've been fine using simply Kernel deinterlace, until this 1 episode that just refused to cooperate. Thanks to everyone that chipped in and helped. I'm going to forcefilm on them with field deinterlace on everything first and check for artifacts. If they're no good, I'll do the IVTC afterwards. That'll be my routine. I wish GK offers more flexibility in the filter department in the form of an GUI. (I know I can manually edit the .avs file to do what I want) IVTC can use some adaptive deinterlace after the fact but it's just not available.

[edDV]

I can hear the original editor singing now ...

... "Look what they've done to my cut Ma"...

" they've chopped, studdered and K-laced my comp Ma"

..."Look what they've done to my cut "

--- due respect to Melanie

[manono]

Ah, the dreaded SG1s. You might have mentioned that in the first place. All those Sci-Fi TV series DVDs are a mix of film and 30fps CGI, and there is no easy or perfect solution. My take on it is that since you're making an AVI (right?), and therefore have to make it progressive, and since there is relatively little computer effects in each episode, then your best bet is to make it 23.976, and maybe put up with a little bit of jerkiness during the CGI parts. It's either that or screw up in one way or another the vast majority that is film.

Now, I've never had a look at the SG1 DVDs, so I don't know if the 30fps parts are interlaced or progressive. If interlaced, the results can be much better when converted to 23.976fps. But you have a couple of options. One is to use Decomb's Decimate with Mode=3 turned on. This will IVTC the Film portions normally, and then blend the 30fps parts so that they play as smoothly as possible. It won't be perfect, and only you can decide whether or not the results are satisfactory. Read Decomb's Reference Manual for the gory details:

If mode=3, instead of discarding the most similar frame, Decimate() will apply different decimation strategies for 3:2 pulldown material (film) and for pure video (nonfilm) cycles. Film cycles are decimated in the normal way. Nonfilm cycles are decimated by applying a frame blending decimation of the cycle from 5 frames to 4 frames. The resulting frame rate is the film rate (decimated by 1/5).

If those CG parts are interlaced, there's a better option, and that is to use the SmartDecimate IVTC, which was developed for just such material. During the 30fps parts, it will interpolate fields into frames in order to have it play pretty smoothly:

LoadPlugin("F:\DivX Stuff\GKnot\TDeint.dll") #or the KernelDeint.dll
LoadPlugin("F:\DivX Stuff\GKnot\AviSynth_C.dll")
LoadCPlugin("F:\DivX Stuff\GKnot\SmartDecimate.dll")
.
.
B=TDeint(Mode=1) #or KernelBob(Order=1)
SmartDecimate(24,60,B)

And that's also how you add other filters not included in GKnot. Load the Plugin, and then add the line or lines to the script farther down. Also note that if you do decide to try out SmartDecimate, that you "LoadCPlugin"

Also, TV series DVDs do have their own special set of problems, even if there are no CG effects. The idiots that do the cutting and splicing take no care for whether or not they cut on frames or not. They often cut on any old field. This often leaves behind so-called "orphaned fields" without another one on which to match in order to generate a clean frame for IVTC purposes. Decomb isn't the best IVTC to use for such projects, as it doesn't do well with such orphaned fields. If you do use it, you should turn on Blend=False in Telecide, so that you don't get a blend of 2 different scenes in the resulting frame. However, SmartDecimate can handle orphaned fields, as can TIVTC. You have to fit the IVTC to the material, and learn the ins and outs of each one. But those that say that such material can't be IVTC'd are just plain wrong.

IVTC can use some adaptive deinterlace after the fact but it's just not available.

I'm not really sure just exactly what you mean by that. Telecide has FieldDeinterlace built into it to handle any interlacing after IVTC. If you do decide to ForceFILM (which I don't think I'd recommend for SG1 episodes), then you can add FieldDeinterlace(Full=False) or Tdeint(Full=False) afterwards. Both of those will only deinterlace that which is detected as interlaced, and leave the rest alone. Again, the threshold of FieldDeinterlace will most likely have to be tweaked.

[boosted]

Thanks for the information... err education manono. I guess I should have known the SG1s are the source of the problem, there HAVE been mentions of problems before. In anycase, I was lucky that most of the eps I have were in PAL progressive, so there was nothing that needs to be done besides straight conversion to avi. The eps I have on NTSC were the one that I have trouble with. Since I'm using GK, I guess I have to edit the avs file to change Decimate mode to 3 manually. Like this?

# IVTC
Telecide(order=1,guide=1).Decimate() #chagne this to Telecide(order=1,guide=1).Decimate(Mode=3)
# or use
#IVTC(44,11,95)
#GreedyHMA(1,0,4,0,0,0,0,0)

As for adding new filters, should I just pick any filter and then manually edit the avs file to add the filter of choise? Or is there a way to add it so the option comes up?


LoadPlugin("F:\DivX Stuff\GKnot\TDeint.dll") #or the KernelDeint.dll

I currently have KernetDeint.dll(this is default) does that mean I don't need TDeint.dll?


LoadPlugin("F:\DivX Stuff\GKnot\AviSynth_C.dll")
LoadCPlugin("F:\DivX Stuff\GKnot\SmartDecimate.dll")

What does it mean by that "C" in between Load and Plugin?

Since I have KernelDeint, I should have them as

LoadPlugin("F:\DivX Stuff\GKnot\KernelDeint.dll")
LoadPlugin("F:\DivX Stuff\GKnot\AviSynth_C.dll")
LoadCPlugin("F:\DivX Stuff\GKnot\SmartDecimate.dll")

then

B=KernelBob(Order=1)
SmartDecimate(24,60,B)


Orphaned fields might have been the problem I had with the particular ep. Since first 30 min of the ep was fine, then it started to "flicker".

What I mean by IVTC could use some adaptive deinterlace is that, if I keep my NTSC DVD source as NTSC then do an IVTC,(which is only available in GK as a filter when the source is NTSC) it sometimes left some areas with artifacts. It seems that it should do further processing in those area. Most of the eps I have that are PAL, don't require any processing at all. But for the ones that aren't, you recommend this then?

# DEINTERLACING (1)
FieldDeinterlace() #change this line to FieldDeinterlace(Full=False)
#FieldDeinterlace(blend=false)
#TomsMoComp(1,5,1)


Another thing is, if the source is NTSC interlaced, by forcing film, does that automatically mean it has been IVTC-ed? Or is the IVTC filter still need to run through in VDub to do the actual IVTC?

[manono]

Hi-

I guess I have to edit the avs file to change Decimate mode to 3 manually. Like this?

Yes, just like that. It's easy enough, though. You can even do it while in the Edit box of GKnot. However, I prefer to Save it first, and then do the editing outside of GKnot. That way, after I change something, I can open it in VDubMod to see if it opens OK, and if not what the error message is. Then I can scroll around to see if the changes helped. Only then do the encoding.

Another thing; that GKnot generated AviSynth script file is so large, and so filled with lines that don't do anything, that I like to delete all the lines beginning with "#", so I can understand better what's going on.

As for adding new filters, should I just pick any filter and then manually edit the avs file to add the filter of choise? Or is there a way to add it so the option comes up?

Well, there is a way to add it once, and then it will be available after that, just as if it was a default GKnot filter. In the Options Tab, check the "Use Advanced SaveAVS Window". Then after you open a D2V, and go to create an .avs, you'll see a whole new set of options, including adding your own filters from which to choose, and shrinking the GKnot default .avs by getting rid of filters you never use. I don't use it myself, but just add the extra filters when needed, by editing the .avs, but I guess you can figure it out by yourself.

I currently have KernetDeint.dll(this is default) does that mean I don't need TDeint.dll?

KernelDeint is fine. However, if you decide to try out SmartDecimate, you use KernelBob, which is built into KernelDeint. KernelBob is a "SmartBob" which doubles the framerate by converting each field into its own frame. If SmartDecimate needs any of the bobbed fields (like for the 30fps CG stuff in SG1), it'll grab them from KernelBob.

What does it mean by that "C" in between Load and Plugin?

I'm not a programmer. However, SmartDecimate was written in C++ (I think), whereas AviSynth wasn't, and the AviSynth_C.dll allows them to work together. Something like that.

By the way, I gave you that script based on the paths I use. Make sure the paths are correct for your own system. If you have all the .dlls stored in the same place, you can just erase one that you don't use, and replace it with a new one.

Orphaned fields might have been the problem I had with the particular ep. Since first 30 min of the ep was fine, then it started to "flicker".

One thing you should always do when there are problems is to open the script or the final AVI, and scroll to the problem areas so you can advance a frame at a time to try and figure out what's going on.

But for the ones that aren't, you recommend this then?

Telecide already has FieldDeinterlace(Full=False) in it by default (unless you turn it off with "Post=0"), so by adding it after the IVTC, you're deinterlacing twice. If it wasn't picked up the first time, I doubt if it would be picked up the second time. You may have to tweak FieldDeinterlace, or you may have to try a different IVTC. Or you may have to run the D2V through DGFix in case there are field reversals going on. It's included in the DGMPGDec package included with GKnot. That's the file in which you also find DGDecode.dll and DGIndex.

Another thing is, if the source is NTSC interlaced, by forcing film, does that automatically mean it has been IVTC-ed? Or is the IVTC filter still need to run through in VDub to do the actual IVTC?

DGIndex only reads the flags in the video stream. Think of ForceFILM as a very weak IVTC that only works when DGIndex shows it to be FILM, and not NTSC, or as Progressive, and not as Interlaced. When it shows it as Interlaced, it's telling you how it was encoded, and not what it really is. Anything that shows as NTSC Interlaced can NOT be ForceFILM'd, but there's a good chance it can be IVTC'd. The only way to tell is to open the non-ForceFILM D2V (29.97fps) in GKnot and look for the pattern of 3 progressive frames followed by 2 interlaced frames that tells you it was telecined, and can be IVTC'd. If you see interlacing in every frame, it's truly Interlaced, and can only be deinterlaced. True hybrids, such as SG1, are different, and a real pain in the ass. I'm glad I can watch them on TV every day of the week, and don't feel the need to get the DVDs. That kind (also including Babylon 5, Deep Space 9, and many others) is enough to make grown men cry when trying to convert them to AVI.

[boosted]

manono, I haven't seen many people on any board be as patient as you guys are and answering all of my questions. Thank you again. There's a lot for me to try, lots of processing time needed. I'll find those filters and try to add them then do some encodes to test them out. BTW, those .xml files in the GK\Avisynth folder, are they in anyway usable? There's a SmartDecimate.xml in there, can it be used to replace the dll?

True hybrids, such as SG1, are different, and a real pain in the ass. I'm glad I can watch them on TV every day of the week, and don't feel the need to get the DVDs. That kind (also including Babylon 5, Deep Space 9, and many others) is enough to make grown men cry when trying to convert them to AVI.

Sometimes the director's commentary is pretty nice. And being able to go to the ep I want is an added bonus.

[edDV]

manono, I haven't seen many people on any board be as patient as you guys are and answering all of my questions. Thank you again. There's a lot for me to try, lots of processing time needed. I'll find those filters and try to add them then do some encodes to test them out. BTW, those .xml files in the GK\Avisynth folder, are they in anyway usable? There's a SmartDecimate.xml in there, can it be used to replace the dll?

True hybrids, such as SG1, are different, and a real pain in the ass. I'm glad I can watch them on TV every day of the week, and don't feel the need to get the DVDs. That kind (also including Babylon 5, Deep Space 9, and many others) is enough to make grown men cry when trying to convert them to AVI.

Sometimes the director's commentary is pretty nice. And being able to go to the ep I want is an added bonus.

just a question?
Why do you want a mostly or partially interlaced native program deinterlaced or am I not getting it?

[manono]

Hi-

Why do you want a mostly or partially interlaced native program deinterlaced or am I not getting it?

Gordian Knot is a front end for mainly DivX and XviD AVI creation. AVI is almost always progressive. Hence the IVTC, and deinterlacing of what can't be accurately IVTC'd. Also, getting them down to a manageable file size for burning to CD plays a role for many people. Or did I not understand your question, edDV?

[edDV]

Hi-

Why do you want a mostly or partially interlaced native program deinterlaced or am I not getting it?

Gordian Knot is a front end for mainly DivX and XviD AVI creation. AVI is almost (almost, but not quite, since you can now encode them interlaced) always progressive. Hence, the IVTC and deinterlacing of what can't be accurately IVTC'd. Also getting them down to a manageable file size for burning to CD plays a role for many people. Or did I not understand your question, edDV?

I get it. For DivX and XviD you need progressive before compression. But with 40 cent DVD blanks, is the compromise still necessary? Why take it to that extreme?