What DVD recorder will meet these needs?

[tluxon]

I'm looking for a DVD recorder but just don't know where to start other than laying out what needs I'd like it to meet.

1) Used strictly for capturing VHS and 8mm tape (no macrovision) to best quality mpeg-2, preferrably with AC-3 audio. All VOBs will be copied to computer for editing and re-arranging before authoring. Would like to use rewriteable media.

2) No hard drive necessary.

3) Firewire preferred (for not-yet-acquired DV camcorder) but not essential.

4) Low-risk mainstream manufacturer.

5) Hopefully under $200 but will pay much more if that's what it takes.

Thanks for any suggestions,

Tim

[Epicurus8a]

http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=1271290&CatId=1702

Pioneer DVR-220S Progressive Scan DVD Recorder
The stylish, high-performance Pioneer DVD-220S DVD recorder offers a multitude of playback and recording options for spectacular digital video entertainment. You can play your favorite movies, burn customized DVDs, and listen to MP3s and CDs. And the quality is simply fantastic, as you’ve come to expect with Pioneer products. The DVD-220S also supports WMA and JPEG playback. And it’s multi-regional, giving you the option of taking it with you if you travel overseas. This slim, compact machine features Progressive Scan technology, Chase Play, simultaneous recording and playback. For legendary Pioneer quality at our incomparably low price, choose the DVD-220S DVD recorder for superb entertainment.

Specifications

* Progressive scan: No
* 3:2 Pulldown: No
* Type: Home player
* Built-In hard drive: No
* Recordable: Yes
* Built-in VCR: No
* Changer: No
* THX certified: No
* Multi-Region: Yes
* MP3 support: Yes
* CD-R support: Yes
* DVD-R playback: Yes
* DVD-RW playback: Yes
* HDCD support: No
* SACD support: No
* VCD support: Yes
* DivX support: No
* SVCD support: Yes
* DVD-Audio support: No
* Dimensions: (WxHxD) 420x59x339 mm
* Weight: 4.0 kg

Features

* Slim Design (only 5.9 cm)
* Chase Play, Simulteneous recording and playback
* RGB In/Out via Euro-Scart
* MP3/WMA/JPEG playback
* High DVD-R/DVD-RW playback compatibility
* Easy-to-use and fast operation

NOTE: the 210s & 310-s both have firewire, you can probably get them at eBay. Pioneer is introducing new models very soon, you might want to check into them, too.

check this link: https://www.videohelp.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=260501

[budz]

buy a PIONEER 220-S from Walmart.com $198.76 which you can also purchase a warranty replacement plan of 3 years- $16.58 or 1 year $5.82. Walmart has a 90 day warranty.

[lenti_75]

same

[handyguy]

https://www.videohelp.com/dvdrecorders

[trhouse]

The first criteria eliminates all recorders that use dvd-ram as the only rerecordable media. DVD-ram has VRO files. The choice would need to record to either dvd-rw or dvd+rw. Dvd-rw requires finalizing to produce the necessary VOB's which takes more time.

[gshelley61]

I like the Pioneer DVR-220, as well. The 320 is the same unit, but with firewire input. The Pioneer units have some cool benefits. For example... adjustable input picture controls including black level (brightness), white level (luma, contrast), detail, video noise reduction, color saturation and hue, etc. You can even preview the actual MPEG2 encoding output to see what the finished image will look like before you ever record to a disc... a handy and useful feature.

They are very good DVD players, too.

[tluxon]

I happened to be in Costco last night and they had a stack of Lite-On LVW-5005 DVD recorders, so I picked one up. I see it has progressive scan, firewire, and a couple hacks while the Pioneer DVR-220S does not. I assume the Pioneer has better build quality - how else is the Pioneer a better DVD recorder than the Lite-On 5005?

Thanks,

Tim

[spiderman2k1]

Pioneer have been known to have lip sync problems with old VHS tapes. Panasonic can copy any VHS tape with no problem with it's TBC.

[gshelley61]

I happened to be in Costco last night and they had a stack of Lite-On LVW-5005 DVD recorders, so I picked one up. I see it has progressive scan, firewire, and a couple hacks while the Pioneer DVR-220S does not. I assume the Pioneer has better build quality - how else is the Pioneer a better DVD recorder than the Lite-On 5005?

Thanks,

Tim

Input picture adjustments... including black level; AC3 (Dolby Digital) audio in all recording modes except MN32 (highest setting) which is PCM audio; 32 different manual recording time periods (bitrate and resolution settings); MPEG encoding preview function. And yes, better build quality.

The Lite-On is a decent unit, though. MPEG audio instead of AC3.

[trhouse]

I have been doing tests on a Panasonic DMR-ES10 recorder lately, but this is not about it.

In doing these tests, I have used my computer dvd burner to create test clips and then make copies of the test clips with the ES10. Dvd-ram, dvd-rw, dvd+rw, and dvd-r have been used. Dvd+rw is the only media that seems to not require that the disk be finalized to create the VOB's needed.

Finalizing dvd-rw in the dual format burner in the computer takes about seven minutes. Finalizing time depends on how full the disk is and goes down for a full disk. With the Panasonic, it takes from 4-9 minutes. If you are mostly recording and transferring to the computer and all other considerations being equal; it might be worth it to look at a recorder that writes to dvd+rw just to save a step and save time. Sony and Philips make recorders for +rw.

[Epicurus8a]

If I remember correctly, the Lite-on machine sometimes "sees" macrovision when there is none. Some people have complained of a greenish tint in the video when the levels are low. Some have said it has a mono tuner, too. The Pioneer unit is only $50 more.

https://www.videohelp.com/dvdrecorders.php?DVDnameid=406&Search=Search&list=1#comments

https://www.videohelp.com/dvdrecorders.php?DVDnameid=260&Search=Search&list=1#comments

[tluxon]

I don't think I'll be keeping the Lite-On 5005 if it doesn't record AC3 audio. That's too bad.

On the other hand, I'm not too keen on the Pioneer forcing use of -RW discs (finalizing).

Are there any Sony, Philips, JVC, or Toshiba units that are recommended?

New list of "wants":
1) Records on -RW and/or +RW media.
2) Records AC3 audio.
3) Input picture adjustments.
4) No major PQ flaws.
5) Hacks for region-free and macrovision would be nice.

Thanks!

Tim

[edit] - Forget JVC and Toshiba - I see they only do -RW as well. How do Sony and Philips compare to the Pioneer 220S?

[trhouse]

According to the spec sheet it seems to support Dolby Digital. It does not say if it is 5.1 or AC3. If you play back a disk you have recorded to most players, the player will can identify which it is.

http://www.liteonit.com/DC/english/lvw_5005/lvw_5005_2.htm

[Epicurus8a]

On the other hand, I'm not too keen on the Pioneer forcing use of -RW discs (finalizing).

It only takes a few minutes to finalize discs, and RW discs can be un-finalized and/or erased later on. I do it all the time, its painless.

[Triple_Helix]

If you find a unit that meets all your needs, post it here! I want one!

[lordsmurf]

Those criteria = PIONEER DVD RECORDER

For a bit more money, I'd say JVC DVD RECORDER

Ones you DO NOT WANT = Panasonic, Philips, LiteOn, and many others.

[ckwok1]

I'm looking for a DVD recorder but just don't know where to start other than laying out what needs I'd like it to meet.

1) Used strictly for capturing VHS and 8mm tape (no macrovision) to best quality mpeg-2, preferrably with AC-3 audio. All VOBs will be copied to computer for editing and re-arranging before authoring. Would like to use rewriteable media.

2) No hard drive necessary.

3) Firewire preferred (for not-yet-acquired DV camcorder) but not essential.

4) Low-risk mainstream manufacturer.

5) Hopefully under $200 but will pay much more if that's what it takes.

Thanks for any suggestions,

Tim

If you want to record in best possible quality with recording time more than 1 hour per DVD, you should get a DVD recorder with FR (flexible rate) recording.

If you intend to record more than two hours per DVD and don't care about 100% DVD compliant, you should consider to record in 480 x 480 (using DVD-VR format). Although the authored disc is not DVD compliant, it can play on most DVD player that can play SVCD. At this resolution, up to 3 hours of high quality video can be stored on a DVD.

JVC and Pioneer support both of the above.

[trhouse]

The Philips DVDR77 is available for less than $200.

http://www.jr.com/JRProductPage.process?Product_Code=PHI+DVDR77&JRSource=PriceGrabber....eed.PHI+DVDR77

For the Sony RDR-GX300 about $285.

http://www.fotoconnection.com/viewitem.php?IndexID=9172&RefTag=smarter&engine=smarter&...20Multi-Format

The Sony can record to more types of media.

"The RDR-GX300 features DVD+RW/-RW/-R +R DVD Format Recording Compatibility" and the DVDR77 "either DVD+R or DVD+RW".

[tluxon]

I don't need any more than an hour on a single layer disc, so 720 x 480 framesize should be just fine. Remember, all I want to do is capture and transfer to PC for editing and authoring. Actually, I'll be archiving much of the material without even authoring, but I'm not trying to get high compression - just want DVD-spec format and AC3 audio if possible. Since I got the Lite-On 5005 at Costco and they have a pretty generous return policy, I'm going to go ahead and take it out of the box to test it out when I get a chance (probably this weekend). I'll find out then if the audio is AC3.

[tluxon]

After thinking about it for a few more seconds and reading more posts on the 5005, I've decided to not even open the box and simply return it to Costco.

Since I'll likely by buying online now, any returns will be a bit more of a hassle so I really want to get something that's a lead pipe cinch. I'm considering the Pioneer 220S because it's such a good price, but I'm just a tad concerned that it might not be as good at locking audio and video synch on our two hour tapes (never used EP except for some ballgames). Should I not be worried at all about that?

For reasons I'm not certain about, some people seem to really like the Panasonics but Lordsmurf does not. I highly respect Lordsmurf and agree with many of his opinions, but I understand that biases can cloud the vision of even the brightest minds. Could anyone take a stab at explaining the apparent disagreement regarding Panasonic recorders? Other than that, I might have to focus on the JVC recorder because it doesn't seem to have as many detractors.

Thanks for any further help you can give!

[trhouse]

Here is a link to a thread about the new Panasonic DMR-ES10. It includes a link to a review by Lordsmurf and recent test comparisons by gshelley61 with the JVC. We prefer to let the images and files speak for themselves.

https://www.videohelp.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=263530&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0

Here is a comment Lordsmurf made when I queried about the LSI encoder being used in other than JVC recorders and if the quality should be similar. Some of the recorders mentioned by Lordsmurf record to +rw which is why I did not recommend a Panasonic. They record to dvd-r, dvd+r, dvd-rw, and dvd-ram but not dvd+rw.

You are correct, the VBR uses of LSI by Apex and JVC are almost identical in quality.

The LSI chips perform pretty equal, software permitted.

I say this because the DVD+VR implemtentations by LiteOn (and clones like ILO/Daytek/Gateway) use the true DVD+VR spec of CVBR instead of VBR, which is somewhat lesser quality, though only noticed towards the 4-hour range. It adds mosquito noise at scene changes sometimes, and it you have rapid-fire scene changes, it'll turn to blocks. The 3-hour mode or less is best setting on these units with CVBR. It may take a hack to get it, though all LiteOn's had at least one model that was 3-hour factory set (special firmwares).

It should be noted that the Apex had a rare gamma error that showed it's ugly head on some S-VHS tapes. Faulty Apex firmware, but was uncommon. Never really saw this from VHS or off-air.

Some LG units also use LSI, looks excellent.

As do some of the Zenith units. The Zenith does an excellent job like JVC and Apex, in terms of visual quality. I think it's also CVBR, but is closer to true VBR.

The GoVideo equipment is crap for other reasons (other parts failed frequently, company is infamous for junk all the way back to VHS days), but the few that use LSI looked quite nice. The LSI line was shortlived, they are now using some cheap Cirrus or ESS crap. And CVBR instead of VBR.

Same for Samsung, few models used LSI, then they went to cheapo chips for latter models.

It's always easy to spot an LSI chip. Look for a low-noise, no-noise signal, and if the source was VHS, look for it to be relatively chroma-noise free. And unlike some of the other companies out there, LSI chip users do not hide their chipset specs, proud to have a good chip. Easy to find info on who is using them.

[gshelley61]

Panasonic has the largest market share of DVD recorders primarily because they brought them to consumers first. Although there are some issues with Panasonic recorders (all DVD recorders have some issues), the astonishing difference between what a 1 or 2 hour DVD recording looks like compared to a VHS (or even a high-end S-VHS) videotape recording is like night and day. So, most people who have purchased Panasonic DVD recorders really like them, and they are generally reliable and easy to use.

Some of the problems and concerns encountered with Panasonic DVD recorders by some people include macroblocks and other compression artifacts at relatively high bitrate (SP) settings, VR format DVD-RAM video files that are sometimes buggy and difficult to download and edit, AC3 audio file flaws, a 704x480 capture size (rather than 720x480) that crops 8 pixels from the left and right sides of the source image... you get the picture. IMHO, there are other DVD recorders out there that do a better job of creating MPEG2 video.

[tluxon]

Well, I decided to open up the box and setup the LiteOn 5005 from Costco to give it a try. Without even updating the firmware I went about copying our nearly 15-year old VHS tape of our wedding. I recorded it with the 2 hour setting and I couldn't see anything wrong with any part of the recording after reviewing segments from various parts of the resulting Mpeg-2 files. I saw enough negative comments while browsing around, especially pertaining to green tint in the recording. I didn't see any of the problems that others had reported, so maybe I got a "good one".

I went ahead and updated the firmware with Guitarman's hack so I could get the 3-hour recording option. Who knows, I might even need the macrovision and region free hacks as well some day.

I'm not thrilled that there are no adjustments for brightness, contrast, gamma, and whatever, but some of the wedding video was shot in partial darkness and even that part came out looking every bit as good as the tape. Is there anything in particular I should be looking for?

Thanks,

Tim

[trhouse]

Now would be a good time to check what the audio type is since that was of some concern. I would put one of the recorded disks in your computer to see if it reads ok.

You have done the best test anyone can do, that is to test it yourself. It is not easy to know if problems encountered by others are pilot error or equipment error.

[tluxon]

The first recording was done in the 2 hour mode (SP) and Womble says the audio is Mpeg Layer-II with a bitrate of 256 kbps at 48 kHz. I'll have to try out the other recording speeds tomorrow to see if it's any different.

After updating the firmware, I tried a short segment recorded in the 3 hour mode and noted that the audio is the same as above but the framesize of the video was changed to 352 x 480, which I prefer for lower bitrate captures from VHS. Too bad there doesn't appear to be a way to drop the bitrate of the audio - or am I missing something?

Tim

[trhouse]

Now that the box is open, what does the manual say the audio should be? That info is usually in the back in the specification section.

[tluxon]

Now that the box is open, what does the manual say the audio should be? That info is usually in the back in the specification section.

The manual clearly states that the only Audio Recording Format is:
DVD+VR (HQ/SP/EP/SLP): MPEG1 Layer2.

The only place Dolby Digital is mentioned is under "Audio format supported - Playback" where it lists "LPCM/Dolby Digital/MPEG".

I guess I'm out of luck when it comes to AC3, but it's tempting to hang onto this thing when it was only $150. Is the Pioneer really worth another $50 without any hacks and not supporting +RW discs?

[lordsmurf]

Worth an extra $50, not really.
It sounds like your unit works fine. You're golden.

[trhouse]

That is disappointing about Dolby. Seems like the web site data sheet is not accurate. If you keep the 5005, check out a freeware called Besweet in the tools section. It transcodes audio formats including mpg to AC3.

I still have a capture device which also created mpeg2 video, and mpeg1, layer 2 audio. Sonic MyDVD was used to author. MyDVD transcoded mpeg1, layer 2 audio to Dolby AC3 without transcoding the video before burning the dvd. Transcoding audio is pretty fast.