Toshiba HD DVD Burners fail to meet their own specs...

[MozartMan]

Toshiba HD DVD Burners fail to meet their own specs...

Via highdef digest forum:

dolphinius rex writes:

As the title says, Toshiba's own HD DVD-R drives are failing to meet the specs laid out by Toshiba and the DVD-Forum for the format. Actually, the results are quite horrible.

Here's a scan produced by C't, a highly regarded German tech magazine. As you can see, the error rate greatly exceeds the thick red line (which shows the maximum error rate allowed by the specs). Things get even worse when you attempt to burn HD DVD-RDL media. Just think about how much worse it will be when Toshiba manages to produce 2x burners...

By the way, the quality index score they gave of '--' is the lowest possible score they can give. I guess we know why the drives haven't hit the mass market eh?"

[Nilfennasion]

As the title says, Toshiba's own HD DVD-R drives are failing to meet the specs laid out by Toshiba and the DVD-Forum for the format.

First of all, they are not a Forum. Forum implies some kind of two-way communication in which one side says something, and the other actually listens before creating a response. Toshiba is incapable of listening, even to the people who more or less pay their bills. The original name DVD Consortium is far more apt.

Second, this is hardly surprising for what amounts to a prototypical product. CD-R and DVD-R were also plagued by reliability problems when they were taking their first awkward steps to the mass market. It's really just a phase.

[MozartMan]

It's really just a phase.

Kinda very long phase, more than a year!

[Nilfennasion]

Well, the phase in which HD-DVD itself continues to exist is likely to last a couple of years more. But that does not make it any less of a phase.

[MozartMan]

Here is more info.

Posted by MediumRare on CDRlabs.com forum:

The latest issue of c't (No. 20/2007, available now in Europe) has a look at the first HD-DVD burner available: the Toshiba SD-L902A.

This drive is atypical, in that it's a slim line (notebook) drive and only available in some top of the line Toshiba notebooks- you'd be hard pressed to get one without that "packaging". Furthermore, it's a 1x burner and takes over 56 min for a SL disc (15 GiB) and more than 114 min. for a DL disc (28 GiB).
...
Frankly, this drive is less than impressive- slow, expensive, poor quality burns and hard to get. And this more than a year after BluRay burners became readily available!

Unless something drastic happens, HD-DVD burners are dead. Maybe that's another reason some studios are plugging this format exclusively?

http://www.cdrlabs.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=170049#170049

[Nilfennasion]

Maybe that's another reason some studios are plugging this format exclusively?

Who in the almighty frig wrote that???

Five of the eight major studios are Blu-Ray exclusive. I think this author is out of his mind.

Interesting point about the scarcity of burners and their reliability, however. But it is hardly a unique situation. CD-R and DVD±R drives were not exactly easy to come by when they were first released to market, either.

The HD camera I bought is bundled with software that is pretty much geared to Blu-Ray, so once a BD-R drive becomes available, this will all be academic.

[lordsmurf]

Neither technology works very well right now.

Too many Internet dorks with opinions on "which is better" on this topic. Internet speculation has started to become borderline retarded on the topic of HD discs.

If you want reliability and quality, use a DVD, end of story.

If you want to play and experiment on HD discs, then realize there are issues to overcome, and you might have wasted money on something that will be fixed and cheaper down the road. By and large, HD media is not ready for mainstream use. In fact, it might never work out, as we saw with formats like Laserdisc and Super Beta.

[videopoo]

Well said!.....Thank You Lordsmurf!

[Nilfennasion]

Reality lesson:

As long as there is HDTV, which is finding its way into an ever-increasing number of homes where it knocks the socks right off the viewer, there is going to be a HD recording or home video format. The two go together. Time-shifters being told that they have to watch the HD as it is being broadcast to actually see it in HD... well, surely the concept of dissatisfaction at demand not being met is one I should not have to explain.

[lordsmurf]

Yes, people want to record, absolutely. They use PVRs and DVRs. That shift has been happening for years, and is one factor that kept DVD recorders from selling better.

Most folks who bought DVD recorders had some VHS tapes to transfer. They won't transfer VHS to HD discs.

Discs in general are an archaic storage medium. Solid-state is the next generation. I'm already using 4GB and 8GB CF cards in my pro DSLR. That's bigger than a DVD. The 16GB cards are here, and 32GB and 64GB CF cards are in development. Smaller than a disc, and craploads more reliable.

Discs are as yesterday as tape.

Pro cameras are moving to P2-type solid-state now too, and taping is slowly dying off. Discs were never even an option.

The solid state is costly, sure, but it's no worse than discs. Ramp production, find some shortcuts, and you'll be fine.

Time-shifting has also been offset by downloads, both illegal torrents and legal iTunes-type services. Why screw around with equipment and recording commercials when you can throw $2 at Apple or hit up your favorite pirate site for $0 instead? That $500 DVD recorder is not so appealing anymore to those willing to deal with the downloaded quality (which is sadly too many people).

Blu-Ray and HD-DVD are fighting a battle almost nobody cares about.

[jmcgauhey]

At this time there is no need for HD burners for short home video. I burn up to 23 minutes on regular DVD-R and up to 40 minutes on DVD+R DL media in HD-DVD format and it looks great; as good as commercial cable HD TV. True, for longer burns a real HD burner will be required, but for most home purposes, why spend hundreds for a special burner, and $15 for media, when a regular burner and $0.32 media works great. I've heard the same is true for BluRay, but haven't tried it. True also it doesn't work to backup commercial HD movies, but I don't do that.

[fjmr]

jmcgauhey
At this time there is no need for HD burners for short home video. I burn up to 23 minutes on regular DVD-R and up to 40 minutes on DVD+R DL media in HD-DVD format and it looks great;

jmcgauhey would you please teach me how to do that!!!!!!

But I want the DVD Disc to play in a DVD Player!!!

[jmcgauhey]

fjmr
1) Understand that the only way to get real HD is from some sort of HD player, into a HD TV. Whether HD-DVD, or BluRay.
2) Most good "upconvert" DVD players, and certainly my new HD-DVD player, do a very good job of making standard DVD's look better. HOWEVER, it REALLY helps if you shot the footage with a HD camcorder, and preferably a HDV (tape, not a hard drive or DVD HD camcorder) as this maintains the best quality (unless you spend $6K+ for a pro camcorder). This is changing, but true in my opinion, as of today.
3) If you do what follows and make a HD-DVD disc from regular media, it will still only play on a HD-DVD player, or on your computer if you updated firmware and software to read this type of disc. It will not play on a regular DVD settop player. Again, if you want HD, you gotta go HD, from camera, to editing software, to disc, to player, to TV. That's the only real way to get real HD. The disc can be regular DVD-R media, but must be burned as HD.
4) READY??? OK, it's simple. Just download a trial, free version of Ulead Video Studio 11 software from ulead.com. Follow the directions. They have a new update, not sure if you can update the trial version, I think not, but the full version to buy ranges from $79 to $129, and I think you need the top version to do this. Then update it with latest Service Pack. If you use the version without service pack, you capture, edit, and render your video as HD, with 25,000 kps bitrate as mpg2 in HD configuration. Then for burning, with trial version (not updated), just tell it you have a 15 gig HD-DVD blank in your regular burner, and burn up to 23 minutes on a DVD-R. The updated version will let you specifically choose that you're burning HD-DVD to a regular DVD-R disc and choose single layer 4.7 or dual layer 8.5 gig versions. That's it!! Depending on computer, it will take a long time to render, and burn.
I do think there is other brand software that will do this, and probably more on the way, but I use and have done this only with Ulead. And don't get MEDIA Studio Pro, only VIDEO Studio, their cheaper editing software, will do this right now. The Pro version is what I use to edit, and it will edit HD and create a HD mpg2 file, but the burning must be with Video Studio 11.
5) Again, you must have a HD-DVD player. Best value I've found is from Costco at $249, which is about half of BluRay. But at least you don't have to spend $500 to $600 on a new internal DVD burner, or $15/disc for media.

Feel free to contact me off list if you need more information.
Jim McGauhey
Washington State

[fjmr]

jmcgauhey Many thanks!!!

I appreciated very much your help!!!

My brother has a Toshiba HD DVD Player A2 so if I could do what you described I will do.

My OP is WIN 2K!

So many thanks again for your spent time!!!