How to record 2 hours of DVD Quality Video in a 4.7 GB DVD?

[rbermude]

I have been burning DVD for 2 years, and have tried multiple times to get more than 1 hour of video into a single DVD disk.

Anything beyond 1 hour won't produce an acceptable quality level in my standards.

I have read of runing something like "variable beat rate" that produces video quality comparable to DVD quality.

Can any of you PLEASE point me to information that explain how to get 2 hours of DVD-Type Quality video into a single/regular DVD (4.7 GB) ?

What program should I use or you recommend for compressing the video, but still maintaining quality comparable to DVD?

I will appreciate any help you can provide.

Rene

[Matt D]

You are going to have to lower your bitrate to get more video per disc. Reduce it to something like 5000 kbps and you'll get about 2 hours.

[richdvd]

It will depend also on what your bitrate your audio is at. Use the bitrate calculator here....

https://www.videohelp.com/calc.htm

[Dilemma]

Or you can encode, author, then shrink with dvdshrink

[guns1inger]

If you don't even know what "variable bit rate" is, then I'm not convinced that you know if more than an hour is less than your exacting standards. There are commercial disks of high quality that have 2 hours or more on a single-sided single-layer disk.

[trhouse]

If you mean comparable to commercial dvd, you cannot. Here is the reason why,

"This poses a problem when backing up pressed DVD-Video discs that can hold dual-layer worth of data per side, 8.5GB. "

Commercial dvd is pressed not burned.

[richdvd]

If you mean comparable to commercial dvd, you cannot. Here is the reason why,

"This poses a problem when backing up pressed DVD-Video discs that can hold dual-layer worth of data per side, 8.5GB. "

Commercial dvd is pressed not burned.

Read his question again.

[trhouse]

Did I misunderstand?

"Anything beyond 1 hour won't produce an acceptable quality level in my standards."

I assumed the above meant that one hour of acceptable video must be at maximum bit rate ( ie XP mode quality) and SP mode quality is not acceptable. Obviously a commercial dvd which can hold 8.5 GB can run for nearly two hours at XP mode bit rates. A recorder is not being used so references to XP and SP refer to relative quality only.

[richdvd]

"Anything beyond 1 hour won't produce an acceptable quality level in my standards."

It sounds like he needs to up the bit rate.
Also...it depends on what he considers "acceptable".

[guns1inger]

trhouse - most (all ?) commercial releases don't use anywhere near a full DVD9. Most in fact come in around the 5.5 - 6.5 GB mark, with longer films coming in around 7 - 7.5. Even SuperBit disks don't fill the available space. Yes, they wont fit on a DVD5 in that state, but 2 hour movies do come on DVD5 releases, and the quality can be quite good if done right. Multi-pass VBR is the way to do it.

[trhouse]

Agreed, but I am not sure Rene realizes commercial dvd is not 4.7 GB. It is my understanding that commercial releases go well beyond multi-pass VBR; that action sequences are painstakingly adjusted on a frame by frame basis.

If the comparison is to a commercial dvd which for arguments sake has 25% more capacity ( ie 4.7 * 1.25 = 5.87 GB) and is already multi-pass VBR encoded; then the question is if a VBR disk encoded at a 25% lower bit rate will be acceptable.

[the * dude]

bloody hell!!!!

having troble fitting lees than 2hrs on a dvd not good enough quality,,,

i think youre encoding is wrong, try tmpeg , and set the motion search to high, that should do the trick!!!!!!!

or use dvd shrink!!!!!!!!

btw some dvds, are purposely have fine grains in them (they weren't recorderd in digital usally old films), that will upset your re-codes!!!

[rbermude]

Just to clarify my reference to "not being acceptable in my standards".
I am not comparing against comercial movies or DVD's, but to my own results when I use the normal bit rate (~8,000) obtaining a maximum of 1 hour of video.
If I lower the bit rate, I get "grainy" results (using a fixed and lower bit rate, not variable).
I can associate it this way:
SP Quality Level you get in VCR is what I expect and consider acceptable (or Good Quality)
Using lower bit rates gives me LP or worst (SLP) quality level (using VCR standards comparison), which I consider unacceptable.


I have read of multiple approaches to fit 2 hours of video in a 4.7 GB disk.

Lower/compress audio - How much disk space can I save?

Use TMGEnc with Variable Bit Rate - Do I get a good quality? How much video can I fit in a 4.7 GB DVD Disk?

Use DVD Shrink - How does it work? Do I use this program to prepare the DVD project, encode it and everything, and it will magically compress it? Do I get good quality?

Any other trick?

Rene

PD: Appreciate the response from all of you. Please, keep doing it until I we nail this down. Do you know of a document in this Web Site that list the steps, programs recommended for doing this?

[steve2713]

bloody hell!!!!

having troble fitting lees than 2hrs on a dvd not good enough quality,,,

i think youre encoding is wrong, try tmpeg , and set the motion search to high, that should do the trick!!!!!!!

or use dvd shrink!!!!!!!!

btw some dvds, are purposely have fine grains in them (they weren't recorderd in digital usally old films), that will upset your re-codes!!!

I agree that having problems getting good quality at 2 hours is....ridiculous. Getting 2 hours of quality video on a SL DVD should not be an issue.

About some DVDs purposely having fine grains in them, I've never seen anything like that, just actual film grain, mostly in B&W films. Seeing film grain would be a good thing in my book, that shows you that it's a very clean transfer to DVD.

[Matt D]

rbermude- I personally don't like constant bitrate. Variable does a far better job, and it takes at least twice as long.

Compressing audio will leave lots more room for video. For instance, PCM audio is something like 1500kbit/s. If you create a 2hr disc with that, it leaves you with only 3500kbit/s for video. This is definitely better than your VCR, but if you go with 224kbit/s sound you would have 4800kbit/s for video.

Using DVD shrink is a possibility. You author your disc knowing that it will be too big, and then use shrink to, well, shrink it! I usually do not use shrink for projects I author myself, I'd rather encode it to fit the first time.

[gadgetguy]

I usually do not use shrink for projects I author myself, I'd rather encode it to fit the first time.

I agree. Shink is a wonderful tool and does a good job, but if you're authoring it yourself you have much more control over how and where the "shrinking" takes place.

Using Variable Bit Rate allows you to maintain quality while decreasing the filesize. Your current method (CBR 8000 bps) is essentually encoding at the maximum for every frame, giving as much to no action scenes as you are to high action scenes. When you use variable bit rate you set an average bitrate (I usually use ~6000 to 6500) and a maximum bitrate, (and in some cases a minimum). This allows the encoder to analyze the video and allocate the maximum bitrate to your high action scenes (where it's needed) and less that the average to low/no action scenes. Bit rate calculators are available to help you determine what your average bitrate should be to fit the full duration of your movie on the DVD-R.

[Supreme2k]

I think the BIG question, which hasn't been asked, is: What's the source?

Remember,: garbage in = garbage out

Not to say that your source is garbage, but if it's already heavily compressed/encoded (DivX, Xvid), encoding further will show deterioration (ie. it will look worse).

[rbermude]

I agree that having problems getting good quality at 2 hours is....ridiculous. Getting 2 hours of quality video on a SL DVD should not be an issue.

Steve2713:
I'm happy to hear that it should not be an issue.
I'm getting closer.
But what do you use to do it? TMPEnc?

Rene

[rbermude]

Supreme2k:

In regards to your question:
"I think the BIG question, which hasn't been asked, is: What's the source?

Remember,: garbage in = garbage out "

I have a Digi8 camera, and do AVI transfers using Firewire port.

So.....I don't consider it to be garbage in = garbage out

Quality is good when using maximum beat rate.

Rene

[vhelp]

..again, so others can suggest:

* What is your source content based off of (ie, home footage; tv show/movie
from your DV firewire ??

* Also, do you know what your source-type is (ie, Film; Interlaced) ??

* And, what is your encoding process (ie, editing; frameserving; etc) ??

-vhelp 3279

[thegooddale]

Hi, have you thought about KDVD? I haven't tried it myself, but supposedly you can fit up to 6 hours of Full D-1 720x480 on one DVD.
Here's the site with the details: http://www.kvcd.net/portal/index.php
They also have TmpgEnc templates : http://www.kvcd.net/dvd-models.html

[DoctorStopMo]

Don't hijack topics. Make a new topic. / Baldrick

[jimmalenko]

http://members.dodo.net.au/~jimmalenko/AVI2DVD.htm

This guide contains the methodology for calculating the bitrate required for your project, and suggests frame sizes and rate-control modes to use for said bitrate. It then holds your hand through the encoding process using TMPGEnc Plus. It also appears in the guides section to your left - www.videohelp.com/guides.

Might be worth a read

[bugster]

I have a Digi8 camera, and do AVI transfers using Firewire port.

So.....I don't consider it to be garbage in = garbage out

Home video is notoriously difficult for ANY mpeg encoder due to camera shake caused by hand held cameras. The shake may be small enough for the viewer not to notice it, but the encoder does and it eats up bitrate.

Follow Jimmalenko's (and others advice) advice. Encode using Variable BIT rate, compress the audio to mp2 224kbs (if in PAL land or your DVD player can handle it - not all NTSC players do) or 2.0 chan AC3 (all players can handle this). If the quality is not good enough after doing this, get a tripod!

[the * dude]

steve2713 Posted: Apr 21, 2005 14:41

About some DVDs purposely having fine grains in them, I've never seen anything like that, just actual film grain, mostly in B&W films. Seeing film grain would be a good thing in my book, that shows you that it's a very clean transfer to DVD.

yeah I know, it won't give any dvd-dvd problems, but when i made vcd it gave me shit o/p.....

old movie like 3 amigos ("you will die like dogs!!") and some cheap nu ones like the guru...

but i think not using a float point would solve this!!!!

you can notice this when u watch it using power dvd; i guess rbermude was seeing this.....

rbermude Posted: Apr 21, 2005 18:56

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I agree that having problems getting good quality at 2 hours is....ridiculous. Getting 2 hours of quality video on a SL DVD should not be an issue.

Steve2713:
I'm happy to hear that it should not be an issue.
I'm getting closer.
But what do you use to do it? TMPEnc?

Rene

yeap!!! i use tmpeg all the time the thing is the motion search is set to 'normal' by default, good if you use high bitrate, but crap if you use lower!!!! set it too 'high' and you'll be ok for 2 hrs in CBR, any thing more than 2hrs i suggest to use VBR.... (though it will take longer!!!!)

& if your young & don't mind wait for the rest of your life enable float piont presision (guess????)))

will check up later

[rbermude]

I want to thank all of those who provided inputs to this topic.
I have been able to use TMPGEnco with Variable Bit Rate and fitting 2 hours of video in a single DVD with acceptable to good quality.

Now I am having an issue with my authoring software (Ulead MovieFactory 3), which report a duplication in the size of the project if I trim any portion of the video file encoded/compressed with TMGPEnc.

Any ideas why this happen?

Is this normal?

Should I edit or trimm video before compressing it with TMPGenc?

Rene

[Cunhambebe]

May I suggest you do something? Why not converting to Xvid?

[Bjs]

Strange people here ...

Why is it , I can fit 139+ minutes to a dvd-r , in extremely good quality , and it only takes up 4.1 gigabytes on the disc ???

I have many titles here that hit 7 gigabytes , and after some alterations and using dvdshrink to bring the project down a little in size , they average between 3.9 and 4.3 .

This is simply due to the fact I re-encode the audio to a lower bitrate .
I strip all useles rubbish for the dvd's .
I may re-encode the video , but not allways .

I never , ever , use variable bitrate .

Variable bitrates is not actaully supported and can send some players nutts . Everything is done in constant bitrate .

I have sent my discs to freinds , and all reports are its better than anything they have ever seen , even my vcd's beat disc's they have bought from others .

I too have followed many guides here and on other sites , and what has been produced from some of the guides is complete and utter rubbish .

I have done my own guides and given them to friends and guaranteed that if their video dosent come out in the same quality , I'll do the dvd compilation for them for free as a computer lesson .

There's a lot of miss-information out on the web , and I have seen it all .

[SLK001]

I don't believe that he has been doing this for 2 years.

[Gildas]

My iLo DVD recorder in 2-hour mode compresses the video at a rate of 4650 kbps and the sound is compressed in MP2 at a rate of 256 kbps. This allows about 2 hours and 4 minutes of very good quality video on a single layer 4.7 GB DVD. I can't tell the difference between the original video on my DirecTV TiVo and the video recorded by my DVD recorder on a 4.7 GB disc.