Paranormal experiences.

[AlecWest]

Just wondered if anyone has had an experience they'd consider "paranormal" (seen ghosts, UFOs, etc.) or know of people with "gifts" considered paranormal?

I kind of look at it this way. I believe that some things in our world are unexplainable by conventional means. And, an inability to explain a phenomenon doesn't necessarily mean the phenomenon is not real. This is expecially true, I think, when it comes to "gifts." When I was a pre-teen, I had a photographic memory. But I lost the ability as I grew older. Later, I found that Bell Labs did a study of persons with the gift back in the 1940s. But, since they couldn't explain the reason why some people had it and others didn't, they abandoned the research. They did, however, determine that most people with the gift were young people who lost it after they reached puberty ... but again, didn't have an explanation.

Finally, in 1995, two researchers (Yin/Tully) at Cold Spring Harbor Labs in New York discovered a biological key to the gift. People with the gift exhibited higher output of the DNA subprotein, "CREB activator," than people without the gift. And for the last 7 years, they've held a symposium to discuss memory issues. This year's symposium is being held this week on Wednesday:

http://meetings.cshl.edu/meetings/lmemo05.shtml

Professor Tully's page is here:

http://www.cshl.edu/gradschool/tully_.html

I also suspect that the only people we see who publically proclaim their paranormal abilities for publicity purposes are probably charlatans ... that people with REAL gifts tend to keep them secret to maintain as close to a normal life that they can. Although the comic book concept takes this a bit overboard, it's one of the reasons I like the XMen movies.

P.S. Nowadays, most cognitive scientists (psychologists) tend to poo-poo photographic memory (aka "eidetic" memory). When I mentioned the Yin/Tully studies to one psychologist, she dismissed them out of hand saying, "What do you expect? They're only molecular biologists." And when I mentioned that response to Tully a few years back, he replied, "What do you expect? They're only psychologists."

[Faustus]

SCIENCE!

[AlecWest]

SCIENCE!

In 1994, photographic memory was a woo-woo phenomenon. But in 1995, Professors Yin and Tully proved it had a biological basis.

What is "unexplainable" may not remain so. Something that cannot be explained now may merely be "yet to be explainable." A true scientist never dismisses something out of hand. They keep their options open.

[Faustus]

You can talk about it might be explainable all you want. I want to see it. haven't seen it, or proof of it, so I don't believe it.

[AlecWest]

You can talk about it might be explainable all you want. I want to see it. haven't seen it, or proof of it, so I don't believe it.

I take it you're not religious. I'm not that religious either. But, if a scientist hears of a potential innovation, he usually follows up on it to see if it has substance before dismissing it altogether.

Two other woo-woo experiences, both out-of-body experiences - one from my grandmother, one from my mom.

1) During WWI, my grandmother went to sleep one evening as usual. But during the night, she "woke up," got out of bed, and looked back down on her own body. She then walked toward a wall, walked "through" the wall, and found herself in the middle of a dark forest. Walking a short distance, she came across a bog (swamp). Something was in the bog, bobbing up and down on the surface. It turned toward her and she recognized it as the disembodied head of her best friend's husband. The shock of seeing it woke her physical body up and, though it was in the middle of the night and a poor choice of things to do (in hindsight), she called her friend to tell her what she'd seen. The friend chewed her out for saying such a terrible thing and hung up on her. A week later, the friend came to see my grandmother. She'd been visited by an Army Chaplain. Her husband had been killed in action in Europe. The Chaplain told her that his body was being shipped home ... but recommended a closed-casket service. While they were able to identify his body, they were unable to find his head.

2) When my mom was a little girl, her grandmother in Vancouver, BC died. And, she and her mom (my grandmother) went to her home to settle up affairs. She'd recently divorced her husband ... so my grandmother became the next of kin. While my grandmother was in the kitchen cleaning up on the day of the funeral, my mom fell asleep on the sofa. Then, she heard her name called. She got up from the couch and looked back down on her own body still sleeping. In front of her was Nannah, her grandmother (an apparition). Nannah motioned for my mom to follow her into a bedroom. And there, she pointed to a hatbox on one of the closet shelves. Just then, her physical body woke up ... with her mom shaking her awake so they could leave and attend the funeral. After the funeral, they returned to the house ... but found the front door ajar. It had not been forced open, just left open ... and my grandmother remembered closing and locking the door. Just then, my mom told her about Nannah's apparition and they both went to the bedroom. The hatbox had been taken down out of the closet, it's lining ripped out and left on the bed. She was never able to prove it ... but my grandmother believes that Nannah kept money in the hatbox ... and that her ex-husband, who didn't attend the funeral and may have had a key to the house, came while they were gone ... getting away with whatever was in that hatbox.

[Noahtuck]

I have had some, but don't tell anyone about them as most poeple just think you are nuts!!!!!!!!!!!!
Well, that's what i think about most other's when they say they have
And no.... there were no drug's involved

[ZAPPER]

Out of body experiences or floating room to room for me. Mostly when I was young. I sometimes still start to get them, but when I try to control them they are gone. The longer that I let them just happen the further they go, but just being concious of them can make them stop. I have bad sleep habits and these events may be explained away by that. Some of the last ones were like hearing a sound at night and floating out to investigate a tree that fell in a storm. I woke up and made a mental note to check it out in the AM. Well I forgot it in the morning and went to work without checking on it. I rembered at work and it bothered me all day. When I got home I found the tree and it was what I had rembered from the night before. The thing that is weird (like none of this is weird) I do rember when I floated outside it was raining and my alter body or mind or dream or whatever floated close to the house wall up high near the soffit to keep out of the rain.

I have dejevous (SP) all the time (well more when I was younger) But I can't help but wonder if my mind (the process) or my brain (the organ) is actually thinking or processing the same input like two times almost side by side. With one process being slightly a head of the other thus causing the illusion of a dejevou or the false memory?

I have also had "gut feelings" or "spine tingles" that have put me two or three steps ahead of an event. More like the adrealen kicks in before the shit hits the fan. I try to rationalize this by telling myself that some part of me was more alert to my enviroment than I was consious of. Twice I predicted the drawing of a weapon and countless events on the jobsite that could have been a disaster. I have had people ask "How did you know" Sometimes I just look at them like it was no big deal and sometimes I pour it on thick and heavy

I can't force or duplicate any of this, I wish I could, I could use the money. Hell I can't even do a good fake job unless the situation is just right and then I will "Ham it up" just for fun

I think that I can rationalize away most of my experiences, but right when they hit, they can be disorienting and leave me wondering what is going on inside of my head.

[ChrisX]

Do you believe this, a ghost?

[northcat_8]

1) During WWI, my grandmother went to sleep one evening as usual. But during the night, she "woke up," got out of bed, and looked back down on her own body. She then walked toward a wall, walked "through" the wall, and found herself in the middle of a dark forest.

Sounds like Grandma was experimenting with LSD or Shroons.


I'm joking of course but the problem I have with paranormal activities is that it always has some relevance, and typically the relevance isn't made until after the event. With relevance not becoming clear until after a particular event, that would seem by definition a coincidence.

If paranormal activities exist, it seems pointless to have the preminitions after the fact, unless you were trying to solve a crime.

Would also like to question Grandma as to why SHE had this preminition rather than the man's wife... ara:

[flaninacupboard]

Do you believe this, a ghost?

Looks more like Death to me.

[rallynavvie]

I've never experienced anything of the sort, and being an atheist I don't really believe in such a thing. However I'm also a curious atheist so I'm also interested in experiencing something like that so I can investigate it.

Remember that old MTV show "Fear"? Kinda one of the first of what are now called "reality shows". I always did want to get in on those just so I could win some money while trying to find the paranormal. I got interviewed for it and I thought being an atheist made me a shoe-in, but they cancelled the damn show before callbacks could happen

[smearbrick1]

You can talk about it might be explainable all you want. I want to see it. haven't seen it, or proof of it, so I don't believe it.

Ever seen a pigeon hatchling?

I'm pretty sure they exist (there are plenty of adult pigeons) although I've personally never seen one.

[pacmania_2001]

I often get premonitions when I'm sleeping of events that will happen to myself or friends later. The only problem is that I have no way of telling when the event will occur and I'll often forget about the dream until I'm experiencing it again in real life.

[flaninacupboard]

You can talk about it might be explainable all you want. I want to see it. haven't seen it, or proof of it, so I don't believe it.

Ever seen a pigeon hatchling?

I'm pretty sure they exist (there are plenty of adult pigeons) although I've personally never seen one.

I have heard them sat in their next, making a ******* racket.

Which is more than i can say of ghosts.

[VCDHunter]

I have heard them sat in their next, making a ******* racket.

Which is more than i can say of ghosts.

Sat in Next ? I've seen ghosts in Next shopping for clothes, but never baby pigeons.

[flaninacupboard]

I have heard them sat in their next, making a ******* racket.

Which is more than i can say of ghosts.

Sat in Next ? I've seen ghosts in Next shopping for clothes, but never baby pigeons.

Some of the patrons are pretty thin, but not sure i'd actually classify them as -ghosts- !!

[Faustus]

You can talk about it might be explainable all you want. I want to see it. haven't seen it, or proof of it, so I don't believe it.

Ever seen a pigeon hatchling?

I'm pretty sure they exist (there are plenty of adult pigeons) although I've personally never seen one.

Nope but if I had a problem with that I'd figure some PBS guy has likely filmed it in an HDTV format to air on my local PBS or Animal Planet station.

See I used to think stuff like that might be real. I used to think as a kid I sometimes had dreams tell me the future. (often of useless things like what episode of a cartoon would be coming on that day, if me and my mom were going somewhere that afternoon) but as an adult I've learned to accept that likely I saw an ad for the cartoon and overheard my mom talking.

I've also learned that poeple are very superstitious and will protect it when threatened so I really don't trust reports from poeples family members. If it was happening it would by no be WELL documented by real scientist, because the reports of it happening are far to large in numbers for it not to be by now.

Often things can be explained, and when they can't we should search for answer, not jump to conclusions. Remember with jumping to conclusions the earth is still flat.

[ChrisX]

I often get premonitions when I'm sleeping of events that will happen.

I do get that on occasions and the last dream of having a premonition I can remember was of me as flooded over by sea waters.

This dream refers to the Dec 26th tsunami disaster.

This dream I did experienced was only some weeks before the real event as a nightmare.

On rare occasions, I do getting the feeling something bad is going to happen as did happen soon after or later such as an earthquake and Sept 11th.

I thought I have seen a ghost at North Sydney once?

For you to believe my own stories or not is up to you.

[Gorganzola]

I've never had a paranormal experience, at least that I remember, but yesterday I finished watching the last episode of the entire nine years of the X-Files (for the third time) so if anything does happen, I'm ready.

[yoda313]

Hello,

Nope nothing personal. Though I'm totally open to the possibility. Science has always managed to find crazier and crazier things that are REAL that to discount others as "nonsense" seems premature.

Kevin

[lordsmurf]

SCIENCE!

In 1994, photographic memory was a woo-woo phenomenon. But in 1995, Professors Yin and Tully proved it had a biological basis.

What is "unexplainable" may not remain so. Something that cannot be explained now may merely be "yet to be explainable." A true scientist never dismisses something out of hand. They keep their options open.

I've seen stuff. And I cannot explain it. So I won't try.

[Shadowmistress]

I've seen stuff too. I know how to make stuff happen in most cases. I can't prove to others that it's real, but have had it proved to myself. That's all that matters to me really. (And I used to be the biggest skeptic.)

[vitualis]

Firstly, it depends on your defintion of "paranormal"...

There is a rather big difference between someone with remarkably cognitive abilities (e.g., "photographic" memory) to someone apparently being able to see "ghosts" and "see the future".

Regards.

[AlecWest]

Are schizophrenics people who see and hear things that "aren't there" ... or are they people who can see and hear things that the keepers of their asylums cannot (but are there)?

[vitualis]

No, they aren't there.

When someone with schizophrenia starts to get better, there is often a time when they still have hallucinations but they know that they aren't "real".

Regards.

[AlecWest]

Hehe, just being facetious. But, it does happen to be a fact that accepted definitions of "sanity" tend to be majority opinions.

True story. When my brother and I were kids, he had a good friend who was a big fan of horror films. His bedroom walls were covered in horror posters and he had a fixation with making toy guillotines ... and using them to "execute" grasshoppers. His parents finally sent him to the state mental hospital for a brief period of "evaluation." And, when he got out, he told my brother what kind of therapy he really got.

His psychiatrist sat down with him on many occasions and asked him, "Do you know why you're here?" And, he gave the psychiatrist different answers until one day the psychiatrist told him the answer he was looking for. "You aren't here because your bedroom is papered up with horror posters. You aren't here because you make small wooden guillotines. And you aren't even here because you execute insects. You're here because you talk about it." In short, he was trying to tell him that "broadcasting" his eccentricities to others was the issue.

So, he stopped doing that. He took down his horror posters (but kept them in large scrapbooks where he could unfold them and look at them privately). He stopped displaying his small wooden guillotines (but continued to make them and keep them hidden). And he realized that it isn't how we really are that disturbs people. It's how we're perceived based on what we do in front of them that disturbs people.

In other words, the psychiatrist taught him to "play the game" of sanity by keeping his eccentricities private. It makes me wonder how many other people, mindful of how others might view their eccentricities, just keep mum on them ... playing the sanity game themselves to keep them safe from psychiatric scrutiny (and hospitals).

[vitualis]

Lots of people do.

We can fairly effectively treat schizophrenia now, but antipsychotic medications may not completely eliminate all the psychotic phenomena. That is, the person may still have some hallucinations or delusions. However, the aim of the medication is to make them functional... that is, so that their symptoms aren't so troublesome so that they can go on with their lives.

Most of these people will learn to develop cognitive strategies to ignore some of their symptoms to "fit in" to "normal" society.

Regards.

[AlecWest]

Most of these people will learn to develop cognitive strategies to ignore some of their symptoms to "fit in" to "normal" society.

Regards.

Yup. Agree. Back to the topic of paranormal abilities, let me turn the tables just a bit.

Let's assume, just for argument's sake, that a person had psychokenetic abilities ... was able to move physical objects just using the power of his mind. What do you suppose would happen to such a person if they chose to demonstrate this ability in a public way? Would this person's life ever be the same again ... ever be normal again ... or would he be subjecting himself to scrutiny of those who'd want to "poke and probe" (scientifically) to find out what "made him tick"???

I think there may be people who have such abilities and choose to keep them private ... just so they can lead as normal a life as possible.

[tweedledee]

[quote"vitualis "]That is, the person may still have some hallucinations or delusions. However, the aim of the medication is to make them functional... that is, so that their symptoms aren't so troublesome so that they can go on with their lives[/quote]

Isn't this what religeous peple do? Would tablets cure them?

[jimmalenko]

I don't believe.