GPU ugrade recomendations for ultimate 3D Game experiences

[retroborg]

GPU upgrade recommendations for ultimate 3D Game experience

My current Rig:

ASUS P5B-E M/B (intel965 chipset) PCI-E 16x
Intel Quad Core 9550 @2.83GHZ 1333MHZ FSB
2GB Cellshock DDR-2 RAM 800MHZ 4-4-4-12 @833MHZ
Asus nvidia 7950 GT 512MB
Creative Sound Blaster Titanium Fatal1ty Pro
2x 1TB Seagate 32MB Cache HDs (Sata II)
2x 512GB Seagate 16MB Cache HDs (Sata II)
Corsair 1000W PSU SLI Certified
19" EIZO TFT 4:3 monitor
WinXP PRO En SP-3

With the exception to the graphics card, what else do I need to upgrade in order to play Crysis, CrysisWarhead, FarCry 2 and pretty much all current 3D games at 60fps with all graphics settings set to full @ 1280x1024 Resolution?

Also, what GPU do you guys recommend that I get? Nvidia or Ati?
I'm looking forward in using this new GPU (and Rig) for at least another 2-3 years for future 3D games like Doom4, if possible
I could spend around 400-450euros...

Thanks in advance.

[jagabo]

http://www.tomshardware.com/charts/gaming-graphics-charts-q3-2008/benchmarks,30.html

[rallynavvie]

At 1280x1024 only the video card would need upgrading. And at that res you don't need the top of the line card either. It's when you start using widescreen monitors, and especially 1920x1200, that you need loads of GPU power to run at high settings.

You may actually want to "downgrade" your CPU to one of the faster dual-cores. However since you already have it built then there's really no point in worrying about it.

[retroborg]

I'm really not interested in upgrading the M/B, as I'll change it when the next generation of CPUs arrive that use a different socket to the aging s775.
I'm also not going to change the EIZO TFT 19" 4:3 as I'm used to the 4:3 aspect ratio and it's an excellent monitor as it is imo.
Also I've heard that WinXP PRO SP-3 doesn't recognise any more than 2GB RAM, is that true?
If I was to upgrade the RAM I think I should get another 2GB Cellshock 4-4-4-12 1000MHZ rather than Corsair as they seem to have faster timings and better chips.

This is what I have at the moment, maybe I should get another one of these 2GB kits...
http://www.legitreviews.com/article/464/1/
http://www.memoryc.co.uk/products/description/2Gb_CellShock_DDR2_PC2_8000_1000MHz-4_4_...kit/index.html

Isn't it better than this:
http://scan.co.uk/Product.aspx?WebProductId=632574&Product=4GB+(2x2G B)+Corsair+TwinX+XMS2%2c+DDR2+PC2-6400+(800)%2c+240+Pins%2c+Non-ECC+Unbuffered%2c+CAS+5-5-5-18


Also it's funny how most GPU reviews contradict with each other in various sites:
http://www.tomshardware.com/charts/gaming-graphics-charts-q3-2008/Crysis-v1-21,753.html
http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=3415&p=4
http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=3341&p=13

Well, based on these reviews I don't think that any of the current GPUs will fully cover my needs!
Maybe I should just wait for the next nvidia chipset which should be released soon...

Thanks in advance.

[jagabo]

Also I've heard that WinXP PRO SP-3 doesn't recognise any more than 2GB RAM, is that true?

XP can use up to about 3.5 GB. Individual processes can only use 2GB by default, 3GB if you use the /3GB switch in boot.ini. But more and faster RAM will not improve your frame rates significantly.

Also it's funny how most GPU reviews contradict with each other in various sites:
http://www.tomshardware.com/charts/gaming-graphics-charts-q3-2008/Crysis-v1-21,753.html
http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=3415&p=4
http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=3341&p=13

No contradictions. They're testing with different settings. The Anandtech reviews were testing higher resolutions but without antialiasing. Toms was testing with lower resolution but 4x antialiasing and 8x anisotrophic filtering.

[retroborg]

By the way, do Ati 4870 1GB & nvidia 280 GTX 1GB only work in a PCI-E 2.0 port cause my M/B only has PCI-E 16x!
I also noticed that nvidia 260 & 280GTX don't support DX10.1, so is that a major draw-back as far as performance & picture quality in games like Crysis or future upcoming games?

Also, does anyone by any chance know when and what will be the next GPUs released by nvidia & Ati? Will they be PCI-E 3.0 only cards or will they also be backwards compatible to PCI-E 16x also?

Thanks in advance.

[redwudz]

Also I've heard that WinXP PRO SP-3 doesn't recognise any more than 2GB RAM, is that true?

Just to clarify, a 32bit OS can only see a bit less than 4GB. Doesn't have much to do with the OS, just whether it is 32bit or 64bit. A 64bit OS can see quite a bit more installed RAM. That said, XP 32bit runs fine with 1GB RAM, but 4GB will work also.

I would look to some gaming forums for the best video card advice for that usage.

[retroborg]

Well I also do play a lot 2D old-school games on my PC (2D Shoot Em Ups, and emulated DOSBox, SNES, SEGA, NEOGEO & MAME, etc...), so how well will these 4:3 games look on a wide 16:10 / 16:9 TFT monitor?
I take it that they will look distorted, ugly & stretched out!

By the way, will the 32bit Windows Vista Ultimate recognize 4GB Ram like the 64bit Vista & WinXP 64bit, or is it only 64-bit O/S that have this privilege?
How well do current 3D games, Emulators & programs work on 64bit Windows Vista Ultimate? I've heard that there are hell of a lot of incompatibilities and that it sucks overall as an O/S...

[jagabo]

By the way, do Ati 4870 1GB & nvidia 280 GTX 1GB only work in a PCI-E 2.0 port cause my M/B only has PCI-E 16x!

16x refers to the lane width (and socket size) of the PCI Express slot, not the version number:
http://www.directron.com/expressguide.html

PCIe 2.0 cards will work in PCIe 1.0 slots.

[rallynavvie]

How well do current 3D games, Emulators & programs work on 64bit Windows Vista Ultimate? I've heard that there are hell of a lot of incompatibilities and that it sucks overall as an O/S...

You won't need more than 4GB for gaming anytime soon, especially with GPUs getting faster and faster VRAM. Besides not all motherboards support more than 4GB. However I run Vista 64, I need to run 8GB+ of memory in order to run validations on VMs, and I still game with my machine. Crysis and Warhead worked fine, as did NWN2 and Oblivion. I'll be getting Far Cry 2 today but I'm assuming that one will work just fine as well.

[redwudz]

Well I also do play a lot 2D old-school games on my PC (2D Shoot Em Ups, and emulated DOSBox, SNES, SEGA, NEOGEO & MAME, etc...), so how well will these 4:3 games look on a wide 16:10 / 16:9 TFT monitor?
I take it that they will look distorted, ugly & stretched out!

By the way, will the 32bit Windows Vista Ultimate recognize 4GB Ram like the 64bit Vista & WinXP 64bit, or is it only 64-bit O/S that have this privilege?
How well do current 3D games, Emulators & programs work on 64bit Windows Vista Ultimate? I've heard that there are hell of a lot of incompatibilities and that it sucks overall as an O/S...

You should be able to set your monitor to properly display 4:3 games, just like 4.3 videos, though I don't have any old games to try it with.

The 4GB limitation is because of the 32bit addressing. 32bit systems don't contain enough 'numbers' to count to 4GB of RAM, so there are no addresses available above about 3.7GB, and this is true of about any 32bit OS, Vista ultimate 32bit included.

The newest computer I have uses a Intel Q9300 four core CPU, overclocked to 3Ghz, 4GB of OCZ DDR2 1066Mhz RAM, two 320GB Seagate SATA drives in ACHI mode, and a ATI 3870 PCI-E 2.0 X16 Video card. It shows a Vista rating of 5.9 in all categories with Vista Ultimate. Plays what demo games I have on a 22" widescreen monitor (1680 x 1050) with no problems. (I'm not a gamer. ) It also drives a video projector displaying Blu-ray video through a HDMI cable.

[jg0001]

If he puts a newfangled video card in his 32 bit XP machine... assuming he went with 4GB of ram, if the video card had 1GB of its own memory, the memory map limitations would imply that he's looking at 3GB usuable by XP as the MAX... with other things taking up memory space, he's probably really at 2.5GB. Something to consider.

Also, the top end nvidia cards (GTX 280) are power hungry beasties. I put one only in my newest PC where I knew in advance to get a PSU that could support it's need for both 8 pin and 6 pin PCI-E power plugs (both at once).

[redwudz]

The problem with video cards using system RAM is the access is much slower than the GPU's onboard RAM. Not really a great feature.

Even with the small amount of 4GB of RAM that 32bit OSs can't use (~300MB), I would still see no problems with using 4GB RAM. XP does well with 1GB, Vista does well with 2GB. With 3 - 4GB you would likely see little or no performance gain. But more than 4GB with a 32bit OS is just a waste of money and PS wattage. The only reason I have 4GB on my system is that I was experimenting with a 64bit OS.

My ATI video card does use a six pin auxiliary power connector. And a 500W PS.

I did find a handy site for general video card info. Lots of other good articles there also: http://www.playtool.com/pages/selectvid/select.html

[jg0001]

Uhm.... I wasn't suggesting that a high-end video card with 1GB of it's OWN ram is going to "use" the ram of a 4GB system (under WinXP 32-bit). I was saying that it will use up ADDRESS SPACE that will limit the amount of memory that can be used by WinXP to 3GB.

While the effect is the same, the "why" is not.

[jagabo]

The amount of memory space used by a graphics card is determined by the aperture setting in the BIOS. If the aperture setting is smaller than the amount of memory on the graphics card it will be bank flipped.

[jagabo]

Review of current graphics cards:
http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=3437