Pioneer 109 Record Times

[egb]

I've got a Pioneer 106 (4x) in my Mac but I've been drooling over the Pioneer 109.

How fast does it write a DVD-R, real-world-time-wise? I know it's theoretically 16x, but that's max speed. My 4x burns a DVD in about 13:45 (closer to 14:30 if you count the time from "Start" to "Ding").

[terryj]

with 8x media, in a Pioneer -109, I can burn a full DVD-5
( 4.3 gigs)
in about 5:52, or 6:00 from start to 'ding'.

[goat]

Last night I burned a 3.8 G DVD with Toast 6.0.7 in 3 mins and change (I think the change was about 30 seconds). It was on a Ridata 8x disc. Toast allowed 12x burning. I have ordered some 16x disc .... I'll let you know what happens with those.

[gspanos@comcast.net]

With 16x DVD-R and +R, I get a little better than 8x speed. I'm using an external burner with a Mac G-4 and Toast 6.07. Toast shows 16x as the best speed, but it won't go that fast. I've heard that one might need firewire 800 for that.

[lordsmurf]

It does 16x PCAV on MCC03RG20 media, about 5-6 minutes burn time. The 8x burns are all about 7-9 minutes each.

[willrob]

Toast isn't very accurate with its time predicitons.

I just burned a Verbatim 16X disk of a 4.3 G movie only title on my DVR-109. I selected the 16X speed from those offered by Toast. When the burn began Toast said it would take 3 minutes and 24 seconds. But I noted the time on my system's clock. Somewhere around half way through the disk Toast's counter stopped moving. No adjustment to the displayed time was made, as it counted down to completion.

By my System's clock the operation took about 9 minutes. This may be a unique situation, but I recall reading that the higher speed disks burn faster or slower at different sectors of the disks. Toast may be esitmating based on the perceived write speed, but can't maintain it.

Does Toast create a log file where I could see the burn history?

[lordsmurf]

The 9 min speed at 16x burn suggests it's not burning 16x (what firmware?) or that there is a buffer issue or other hard drive/IDE throughput issue.

[willrob]

The 9 min speed at 16x burn suggests it's not burning 16x (what firmware?) or that there is a buffer issue or other hard drive/IDE throughput issue.

The firmware that shipped on the drive was 1.17. I don't have access to a PC to up it to the latest 1.4.

I did another burn, of a different title, with similar results. This time I used a stop watch. Toast predicted 3 minutes 15 seconds, and the burn took ten minutes 16 seconds. I held the stop watch near the monitor and could see that each second of Toast's countdown was 5 seconds on my stop watch.

The Video_TS folder is on a 400G raid, so it's delivering data as fast as Toast needs it. And my dual G4's cabling is what one would need for the higher data tansfers (80 pin?). I've been burning DAO. Perhaps TAO would be faster?

I'll have to do a test with 8X media to see if its reported time is more accurate. I have burned a lot of CDs at 24x(from iTunes) and even faster burns from toast for data CDs.

[willrob]

I did a burn using TDk 8X media (manufactured by Taroko International Co. Ltd—another Pioneer recommended media). Toast offered a burn time of 12X, so like an idiot I selected it, thus tossing out any chance of an accurate rating. Toast reported it would burn at 4 minutes 30 seconds, and my stop watch produced ten minutes 42 seconds.

Perhaps if I selected 8X as the burn speed, Toast woould have been more accurate in its prediction. Perhaps not. I did a quick google search and found other 109 owners with the same problem—and with these two manufacturers.

Bottom line, 16X media isn't producing faster burns than 8X.

[decay]

i'd like to see some timing done using a different burn app.

dk

[lordsmurf]

willrob, your problem is firmware.

Prior to 1.40, there were errors in high rated 12x and 16x speed.

You have to update. Find a way to do it.

You're complaining about a well known issue that was fixed at least a month ago.

The 109 also does not allow 12x on 8x media, with few exceptions. If you want faster burns, buy faster media.

Toast is lying to you also, part of the problem.

[willrob]

willrob, your problem is firmware.

Prior to 1.40, there were errors in high rated 12x and 16x speed.

You have to update. Find a way to do it.

You're complaining about a well known issue that was fixed at least a month ago.

The 109 also does not allow 12x on 8x media, with few exceptions. If you want faster burns, buy faster media.

I'd love to update, but don't have access to a PC. According to the information Pioneer puts out about media support, the two brands I used should have given me full speed burning with the 1.17 firmware. Especially the Verbatim 16X.

I wonder if the earlier posts in this thread—where folks were reporting three -four minute burns were measured with a stop watch, or were using the Toast (incorrect) read out?

Since my 109 is the only drive on its cable, I left its pins set to the factory installed Master setting. I'm thinking that I might try a CS setting, although I don't think that should make a difference without a second drive on the same cable.

Looking at the 1.4 firmware specs, there's nothing spelled out about speeding up burns on media that is already supported. There's support for new media, and a general statement about drive read/write reliability.

A Mac flasher is being developed. I hope it also evokes a 109 to A09 switch, for quieter playing and faster rips.

[willrob]

There's also this thread

http://forums.afterdawn.com/thread_view.cfm/182147

where a PC user upgaded to the 1.4 firmware and is getting the same sort of results I am.

[lordsmurf]

I don't see that you're trying to fix this. You seem to be hunting for an excuse. I don't even see why you're posting if you won't try any of the fixes.

Don't worry about that other guy online. He could be DMA or IDE or something. You could be too.

But the #1 first thing to look at is the well-known firmware update. You need to find a PC and do it. Surely somebody you know has a PC, especially since PCs outnumber MACs like 10-to-1 and surely you have friends in that statistic.

Also, these drives do not allow overburning media at higher speeds. If you want that, get another burner and hack the crap out of that one. TOAST is lying to you. RecordNow Max will do the same if you specify "MAX" instead of a speed. Even then, the speed clock starts at a CLV timeframe, but alters itself during the burn for Z-CLV or P-CAV writing. It will slow down and/or add minutes as needed.

[willrob]

I really don't think I know a PC user. But possibly a local repair shop can do the upgrade for me. I'll have to call around on Monday. In the meantime I found this app

http://www.versiontracker.com/dyn/moreinfo/macosx/26476

called MBBench which give a visual read out of a burn. It simulates the writing but with the laser off, so no media is wasted. The TDK 8X burns around that speed (goes over 9X at times, but also drops to below 6X). The Verbatim 16X barely gets above 8X at any point in its burn.

Both of these media were supposed to be supported by the 1.17 firmware. I've noticed in the posts on the DVD Writer forum here that some (PC) users upgraded to the 1.4 firmware and had slower burn times....

[lordsmurf]

The only way I got 16x on MCC03RG20 was on 1.40

[terryj]

Don't worry about that other guy online. He could be DMA or IDE or something. You could be too.

smurfy, what the heck is DMA and/or IDE?
Did you mean DEA and FBI?

[gspanos@comcast.net]

To achieve 16x speed you need to have an 80 wire IDE cable installed.

[gspanos@comcast.net]

The only way I got 16x on MCC03RG20 was on 1.40

What's MCC03RG20?

[willrob]

What's MCC03RG20?

The manufactuer and media ID. In this case Mitsubishi Chemical Corp. The Verbatim 16X DVD-R discs I've been using are this code. My gripe (see above) has been that Pioneer claimes they already support high speed writing to these discs with the 1.17 firmware. They lie.

[gspanos@comcast.net]

I upgraded to the 1.4 firmware and still can only get 8x speed with Verbatim and Taiyo Yuden 16x -R and +R disks.

I found this Pioneer suggestion: "...To achieve the specified writing and reading performance it is important that the DVR-109 is connected to the IDE port via an 80 way ribbon cable and that the IDE port is at least UDMA 66 or above...".

I can't figure out how one would do this with an external burner. Those instructions would seem to be for an internal burner.

[willrob]

Most contemporary desk top Macs have the 80 cable required. Are you using a firewire connection to your external burner? And why are ytou still using Toast 6.07. The current version 6.09 is a free download from the Roxio site. of course that's what i'm using and it does me no good, since the limitation I'm hitting is in the firmware.

Have you considered putting the drive as your internal, and putting your current internal in the case?

[bryceguy]

Howdy,

I have a Pioneer 109 with 1.17 firmware. Prior to that, I had a Plextor 116. When I had the Plextor, I was able to burn 8x on 4x Tayo Yuden media w/ Toast 6.09. I returned the Plextor (for certain reasons) and when I got the Pioneer 109 w/ 1.17 firmware, it wouldn't burn higher than 4x on the 4x Tayo Yuden media. Also, it rips regular DVD movies at only 4x whereas Plextor would rip at 8x. Question: Will a 1.4 firmware upgrade give me faster rips and the ability to write 8x on 4x media?

I mean, Plextor can do it, why can't Pioneer? Do I have to wait till 1.4 hacked firmware comes out ? Or will regular 1.4 firmware do the trick, assuming I find a PC. Thanks!

Bryceguy

[gspanos@comcast.net]

Most contemporary desk top Macs have the 80 cable required. Are you using a firewire connection to your external burner? And why are ytou still using Toast 6.07. The current version 6.09 is a free download from the Roxio site. of course that's what i'm using and it does me no good, since the limitation I'm hitting is in the firmware.

Have you considered putting the drive as your internal, and putting your current internal in the case?

__________________
Thanks for the tip on upgrading to Toast 6.09. I didn't know about that.

I guess I could try switching drives, but I'm a little nervous about it.

[willrob]

>>. Question: Will a 1.4 firmware upgrade give me faster rips and the ability to write 8x on 4x media? <<

At the rpc forum there are a number of folks (PC users) who sidegraded their firmwware—from a 109 to an A09. They do this because they then geet faster rip times. The hardware is the same; Pioneer limits the version we have; so I'm not certain that the 1.4 firmware will give the ripping increase.

I expect a dedicated Mac flasher would, along with region code removal, etc—similar to the previous series of drives—103-108. The 109 apparently has a trotally different structure which renders the previous MacFlash useless with it. Someoneis workingon it (lAsVegas0 b ut he doesn't have a 109 to test with; so he's using a beta tester network of 109 owners....the bottom line, it may take a while before we get the speed improvement we bought this device for.

[terryj]

my question 2 Bryceguy:
why are you trying to burn 8x on 4x media?
Why not buy 8x media and get 8x burns?
Burning higher than the media is rated for will often
yeild negative
results in stand alone players, such as the discs over time degrading and becoming unplayable.

Perhaps you are trying to use up old media, but
it would be smarter to buy the media at the proper rating
and burn it at that speed...?

[babgolis]

Hmm, I thought was just me getting slow burn times on my external usb 2.0 109. I've used the case before with a lite-on without a hitch.

The only time I got a real-time burn with the 109 was using 10.3's disc utility to burn a dmg file. Other than that, toast only allows accurate burn times at 6x. I've tried it on a couple of (mac) computers. I'll head over to my buddies & flash it this week & let y'all know what happens. Oh yeah, cd burn times are much less than 40x too.

[goat]

After reading some of the post about Toast giving false burning times on this thread I did some burning tests last night on my Pioneer A09 firmware 1.40 with 2 different DVD's using Toast.

After MTR and DVD21

The Incredibles 4.4G

Ritek 8x DVD-R burning took 8:42 Toast said it would be 4:36
Verbatim 16x DVD-R burning took 11:19 Toast said it would be 3:25


Hotel Rwanda 4.2G

Ritek 8x DVD-R burning took 9:31 Toast said it would be 4:26
Verbatim 16x DVD-R burning took 11:20 Toast said it would be 3:17

These times were clocked on my computer and are from the start to finish of the disc (from the time of pushing the record button on Toast and the eject of the disc).

The Ritek disc show 12x burning and the Verbatim show 16x in Toast

I was running other programs during the burns, so its possible to get a little fast speeds.

[gspanos@comcast.net]

What kind of Mac are you using? The fellow at the Mac store said that you couldn't get top burning speed unless you were using a Powerbook or Power Mac G5 with Firewire 800. I'm using an iMac G4, which has Firewire 400. You can install the 800 port, according to the Mac man, but it will still resort to the lower burning speed.

So, this on top of the 80 wire IDE issue, makes it sound to me like my iMac G4 will never do the 16x trick.

[goat]

I'm using a PowerMac G4 dual 1.25, 2 GB DDR SDRAM, OS X 10.3.9
The burner is installed internally with a 80 wire cable.

What I found interesting was that the Ritek 8x discs burned faster than the Verbatim 16x discs.


(On a side note updating to 10.3.9 my Java freaked-out! It would crash Safari and Explorer if I tried to watch steaming video. I had to re-install the Java update from Feb. to fix it).