HD files

[starshipwarrior]

As a noobe I hope this is the right section to post this -
After spending a few days reading most of the forums I have what is an odd question - I have recently gotten a JVC HD CAM - it was all I could afford - the damn thing outputs the video in mpeg 2 format - (I didnt read the spects right since I was under the idea that it out puts in ts and mpeg2

the tech at JVC says that a firmware upgrade may chg that ( and I guess I am going to be king of england some day )
As most companies like JVC they out put this mpeg 2 in a strange file ending
The files are called Cap0001(0001).m2t - one is labeled Cap0001(0001).tri

So much for trust ! I have learned that there are programs her to convert these files (havent tried it yet) but does anyone here have any idea if others like sony or hitichi do the same

Any ideas or suggestions would be highly appricated


Starship Warrior

[lechtin]

I read some evaluations of Sony HD miniDV cams and JVC and HD is always recorded in MPEG2. I know they can send the data to the computer through a firewire interface, but I would assume they provide the software if standard capture programs like WinDV or even Windows Movie Maker can't capture MPEG2 streams. I would also have assumed the capture files are in some format that can be read by HD video editors like Premiere or Vegas (although Vegas can't import MPEG2... hmmm...)

Anyway, just a hint: a miniDV tape can store 13GB a data, which translates to 1 hour in DV. If a HD (read more data) cam claims 1 hour of HD content on a miniDV tape, it's not going to be DV and most likely MPEG2, although I guess it's possible someone may eventually use MPEG4 at high bit rate.

[Cornucopia]

All the HD cams I've read about--the ones that allow Firewire transfer--do so by piping through to an MPEG2 Transport Stream File (*.m2t or something similar). There are utilities listed on this site that will allow remuxing/conversion to MPEG2 Program Streams (the kind you usually use for DVD), but remember it'll be HD rez and will need to be downconverted/resized to work in std DVD. VirtualdubMod will help here.

The other file (*.tri) sounds like it might be a "Transport Index" file??

Don't know if those utilities need that, but my guess is it's small compared to the Transport Stream, and can just be ignored and left in the folder that it's saved in. No need to delete until you're done with the project.

AFAIK, all companies are doing it similarly, but currently you do need to use a transfer utility that either comes with the camcorder, or is a 3rd party purchaseable utility that is certified/licensed to work with your particular model of cam.

HTH,
Scott

[starshipwarrior]

Thank you lechtin and cornucopia - lechtin you are right on all counts they do provide software (which For some strange reason did not come in the box - a call to tech got me the disk and I had to purchase a firewire cable which also was not "part" of the deal but LOL 300 other cables were.
I have a deciated firewire card (pyro )

The version (Premiere 6.5) will not handle the mpeg files as you already know - I may be confusing you here but I read the HD CAM manual (all 3 pages) and if I understood it right - it saves on digital video cassette (new format new name LOL) 60 minutes since I plan to record everything in HD
and then the camera converts it to Mpeg on output ? as you stated

This statement by cornucopia explains it much clearer
"There are utilities listed on this site that will allow remuxing/conversion to MPEG2 Program Streams (the kind you usually use for DVD), but remember it'll be HD rez and will need to be downconverted/resized to work in std DVD." then the tech rep did

The CD has two programs on it -HD capture utility - mpeg edit studio (some no name prgram since JVC calls it its own LOL So you are saying that these (.m2t) are some sort of ts files ?

the camera manual claims that it saves on the tape in HD (ts?) and outputs in mpeg2 - very confusing to me

lechtin - in case you did not know the new Nero 6.6 uses the new mpeg4 and that was one of my planned purchases to do the final "to DVD "

thanks for the info and program link

Starship Warrior

[Cornucopia]

I thought I made it clear, but JIC I'll repeat...

HDV cams record (720p IIRC) HD onto a DV-type/DV-size tape at the standard DV bitrate of 25Mbps (or alternately 19Mbps?), using MPEG2 Transport Streams ("TS" or *.m2t, *.mt2, *.ts etc). I'm assuming they're what's known as "Long GOP" streams, but I haven't checked this thoroughly.

You were given "MPEG Edit Studio" as an app for editing this "Long GOP" stream(s). At this point, it could be expecting Transport Streams (TS) or Program Streams ("PS" or *.m2p, *.m2s, etc), I don't know.
Either way, you need a special app that knows how to handle "Long GOP" streams, or a standard NLE that is upgraded to be aware of the complexities of "Long GOP" streams (as well as being able to open PS or TS streams), or you need a plugin for a current standard NLE.

The bit about MPEG4 is kind of a sideways move. It could come in handy when HD-DVD/BluRay comes along, but is of little use with current DVDs. In fact, conversion to MPG4 (of any flavor) would require another conversion to MPG2 if you do want to end up with std DVDs. Not a good idea.

Scott

p.s.
Other HD formats don't compress as much as HDV, also have somewhat better Horiz Rez, but require Pro Cams, and larger tapes. Once you started using the "buzzwords", I knew you had HDV.

[starshipwarrior]

Update: before reading your post today I called JVC tech rep to find out if he could tell me more about the format and compression used in this CAM :
Well my luck is holding true to form : BAD -LOL - This guy turned out to be the same tech that send me the missing disk - I told him that the 3 page manual sucked - it turns out that there is a 91 page manual that should of come with the CAM - (its in the mail LOL)
he send me this info : The CAM has 3 modes - DV/SD/HD
DV records to tape in format 480i/interlaced scan mode (half of 525 scanning lines at 1/60 of a second)
SD format records to tape im MPEG2 format (480p -progressive scan mode (525 scanning llines at 1/60 second)
HD (my baby LOL) records on tape in MPEG2 format (720p) progressive scan mode (750 scanning lines at 1/30 of a second for recording & 1/60 of a second for play back
So with your information cornucopia and this new manual I hope to shorten this learning curve - Thank you -

I will also have to learn Premiere 6.5 and figure out when to use it ? and for what format ?

Starship Warrior

[Cornucopia]

You're welcome. Enjoy! 8)

Premiere 6.5 doesn't natively do MPEG2 or LongGOP, so for the SD or HD material to work, you would need some plugin (DV's obviously ok though).

The rest depends on what you want to do with the material...

#1-I would recommend that you keep your raw tapes around for a while.
#2-If you can edit the material, see if you can roll it back out via Firewire to tape (minimal generation loss that way). Even if you have room on your HD, you prob want to have a backup--and a mastered tape is a good form. IIRC, it can do an SD realtime downconvert from HD--in the camera, so you can watch on current monitor.
#3-You'll prob want to do an HD version onto a newer format in the future, but for now, you'll prob want to also have a DVD copy.

Scott