Interlacing ?? lines in cnverted output

[nerys]

I convert all my movies to mpg1. I used either dvd decrypter or dvd shrink to extract the movies and then dvd2avi and tmpgenc to make the conversion

it does not matter which I use the problem persists

its only on SOME movies not all (maybe 1 in 20) but its very annoying. there are LINES in the movies like STRIPS of the movie were shifted horizontally out of place

Suggestions on how to eliminate this very annoying problem ? to see what I mean here is a VERY small 3.15MB 18.65sec long clip where the problem is VERY readily apparent.

http://www.nerys.com/stuff/lines.mpg

Suggestions ?

Chris Taylor
http://www.nerys.com/

[celtic_druid]

As I understand it MPEG1 doesn't support interlaced encoding so you would need to de-interlace before encoding. Then agin maybe it is just VCD that doesn't support interlaced and not MPEG1 itself.

[FulciLives]

Some ideas on what the problem could be:

1.) You used FORCED FILM in DVD2AVI when you should not have.
2.) Wrong field.
3.) Did not resize/de-interlace correctly (again wrong field problem).

Maybe if you could be more detailed in your steps I or someone else can catch what it is you are doing wrong.

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

[nerys]

sure no problem

I have three steps

Rip Strip Convert

Ripping I use either DVD Decrypter or DVD shrink (which I use has NO effect on the outcome)

I have started to use dvd shrink as its slower but more effecient I can get rid of extra stuff and pre cut the start and stop points (I do not actually shrink anything I leave it uncompressed)

I then hit it with DVD2AVI to extract the audio and dat file for tmpgenc

I then run through the TMPGENC wizzard cropping it need be (eliminate black borders or make widescreen into fullscreen)

I change no settings alter no settings everything runs stock

I just rented themexican movie from blockbuster tonight to see if it rips differently than my bought copy. will report back

its only SOME movies in the past I sometimes had movies that would not convert properly (audio out of sync of temporal repeats) but that does not happen often and I found out why it happened on some) anyway I would use DVDx to do those but its mpeg1 algorythms are FAR inferior to TMPGENC (the video does not look as good from dvdx)

I do not recall if this ever happened with that program so I will also run it through there and see what happens

what settings should I alter to fix this and is there anyway to know "ahead" of time of those will happen ?

Chris Taylor
http://www.zodiacreview.com/

[junkmalle]

Since you cropped and resized you are getting artifacts from an interlaced video. You usually don't see it because most of your DVDs have progressive MPEG (23.976 fps) but that one had interlaced MPEG (29.97 fps).

You should not crop the edges of the video -- especially the top and bottom. You won't see those on TV because TV's overscan. You can mask noise at the edges (so you don't waste bandwidth on crap you won't see) by covering it with black.

To get rid of the interlace you can inverse telecine or deinterlace. Drop field deinterlacing is the simplest but results in slightly jagged edges.

[nerys]

ok whatg is telecine ? I have to crop I HATE widescreen so I need to crop roughly 60 pixels from the top and bottom and 80 from the left and right to get a proper 4:3 full screen image

also I need to crop small black too as I few these on Computers and Portable LCD's (PVP's etc...) and on those they DO show the entire image black bars and all

when using a 4-10" screen every mm counts

this is the first one where its distracting (most of them are minor enough that I do not worry about it)

its not THAT big a deal but I would liek to get rid of it if I can any sugestions would be greatly appreciated.

I am wondering if I can make it an upcroped mpeg2 first and then reconvert to mpeg1 and crop ??

Chris Taylor
http://www.zodiacreview.com/

[FulciLives]

ok whatg is telecine ? I have to crop I HATE widescreen so I need to crop roughly 60 pixels from the top and bottom and 80 from the left and right to get a proper 4:3 full screen image.

Well that is your problem (bold emphasis above added by me).

Cropping a WS movie to 4:3 is certaintly not proper.

Stop it !!!

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

[nerys]

I have no choice when they do not offer a fullscreen version for sale

widescreen sucks unless you got 8 grand and can afford a suitaby large 16:9 tv

on 4 and 10 inch screens its even worse !!!

Chris Taylor
http://www.zodiacreview.com/

[junkmalle]

In TMPGEnc use the Video CD -> NTSC Film setting. That will enable the inverse telecine engine and get rid of the interlace artifacts.

[nerys]

Thanks !!

Will this have any impact on other films that do not experience this problem ? ie can I turn this on and just leave it on ?

Chris Taylor
http://www.zodiacreview.com/

[junkmalle]

Will this have any impact on other films that do not experience this problem ? ie can I turn this on and just leave it on ?

No, you should only use it when you have a telecined source.

[nerys]

tis what I feared anyway to tell in advances if I need to use it ?

Chris Taylor
http://www.zodiacreview.com/

[FulciLives]

tis what I feared anyway to tell in advances if I need to use it ?

Chris Taylor
http://www.zodiacreview.com/

As I tried to say some movies can use FORCE FILM in DVD2AVI and some cannot.

The films that cannot use FORCE FILM can sometimes be IVTC'ed after the fact BUT some cannot.

Read some guides on DVD2AVI and IVTC (which is best done with "decomb" using AviSynth).

I been watched WS movies for years (long before DVD) and for years on a 20" TV and now on a 27" TV. I still say LIVE WITH IT.

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

[nerys]

nah dont have to. also remember most of time I am watching on thr 10" screen of my dvd player or the 4" screen of my pvp. WS is useless on those.

I will just figure out how to fix it (like i said VERY few do this)

using VCD Film made it better but it still persists (like it does on others enough to notice but not enough to bother)

I was wondering how dvd2avi had anything to do with this then I remembered it makes that other file as well for the video !!

I will read on your dvd2avi links when time permits (I own it so its no rush) once I figure it out once I can apply it again in the rare cases that it happens again.

I never "just accept" anything. this is technology. it exists to do my bidding. I will make it do so. I just have to learn how. :-)

Chris Taylor
http://www.zodiacreview.com/

[nerys]

also curious about this

") You used FORCED FILM in DVD2AVI when you should not have."

I have to pick one or the other (swap something) I can not deselct and none results in no d2v file which tmpgenc needs

so I am trying the other option will let you guys know what happens

Chris Taylor
http://www.zodiacreview.com/

[FulciLives]

As I said there are guides on how to use DVD2AVI and they explain how or when to use FORCE FILM vs not using FORCE FILM.

FORCE FILM only works with NTSC but not all NTSC sources ... so if you are working with NTSC then you need to understand when you can or cannot use it.

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

[nerys]

I will read up on it. Force Film is the way it is set by default and it works for almost all the movies I do so I will leave it like that.

using the other method makes tmpgenc do something different which is going to make it takes HOURS to convert a movies verse 1 hours so I wont be using that othet mode in dvd2avi unless I need to

at this rate it will take at least 2-3 hours to convert will report back tommorrow with the results

Chris Taylor
http://www.zodiacreview.com/

[lordsmurf]

Default is wrong sometimes.

[junkmalle]

If Inverse Telecine isn't working well in TMPGEnc go back to the regular NTSC Video CD setting and use deinterlace. Try "Even Field" or "Odd Field". These basically just throw away a field, eliminating interlace issues. You can play with the other deinterlace options too.

[taboo]

Hello People,

Found this topic using Search. Having similar problem.

Fortunately, using your advice to de-interlace solved it with "Double" method.

What are the most effective method of de-interlacing in the question of quality? And what that filter is for? Can it be unchecked? What does it do?

Thank you in advance,
taboo

[Marley_]

Taboo,

what "double" method are you referring to?

[taboo]

Double method of deinterlacing

[junkmalle]

Taboo,

what "double" method are you referring to?

TMPGEnc has several deinterlacing options. One is called "Double". It appears to be similar to VirtualDub's "Blend" -- it just blurs the two fields together.

[lordsmurf]

I don't think IVTC in TMPGENC works very well. At least as compared to VirtualDub.

[junkmalle]

I don't think IVTC in TMPGENC works very well. At least as compared to VirtualDub.

If you can use the "Deal after this frame according to selected pattern" it works perfectly. Of course you have to have perfect captures and the source has to be perfectly telecined. It can even be used to IVTC unusual telecine patterns like the 2:2:3:2:3 pattern sometimes used to convert 25 FPS progressive PAL to NTSC.

[FulciLives]

If you really want to do a proper IVTC then the decomb plug-in for AviSynth is the best way.

I just used it on a NTSC VHS capture that had a "mostly" 3:2 pattern and it worked pretty darn well. Has lot's of options such as a "threshold" setting so combed frames that make it through (due to a break in the 3:2 pattern) can be deinterlaced.

- John "FulciLives" Coleman