How does PVR-250 capture compare to AIW/MMC or ReplayTV?

[tluxon]

I've captured many hours of VHS tape to my PCs using ATi's AIW Radeon cards and MMC. I like how much tweaking can be done to refine the quality depending on source, but my target format is always MPEG-2.

I also have 3 ReplayTVs networked into my LAN and have approximately 1 TB of shows on my PCs that I can stream to TVs/PCs by using DVArchive. A few years ago I captured a couple VHS tapes with one of the Replays and found the resulting mpeg looked every bit as good as what I could get out of my AIWs with all that tweaking. The only downside, if there is one, is that I can't watch "live" through the Replay as there is a short delay due to encoding and the buffer to the hard disk.

I'm now considering transitioning from the AIW solution to separates, so I'm looking seriously at the Hauppauge WinTV PVR-250. I only need the TV tuner on the PC and like to be able to make spontaneous one-touch captures of bits and pieces of shows I'm watching on the PC. Since I capture strictly to MPEG-2 it seems logical to use a card with a hardware mpeg encoder like a Hauppauge PVR series. My biggest concern is that I've seen some comments that imply that the AIWs have a bit better PQ. If I could somehow get similar quality as I get from a ReplayTV I'd be very satisfied.

How would you characterize the mpeg quality of a PVR-250 when compared to ATi's AIW/MMC or a ReplayTV? Anything better I should know about?

Thanks!

Tim

[tluxon]

Nobody?

I've done the searching without satisfaction.
Has anybody even compared the PVR-250 or the PVR-150 to an AIW mpeg capture?
How comparing an AIW capture to a capture from a ReplayTV? Would you agree with me that the ReplayTV makes a better mpeg-2?

I'd just like to know if I'm going to be disappointed with the capture quality if I buy a PVR-250 and wish I had stuck with an AIW for TV-to-mpeg-2 capture?

[lordsmurf]

I have, many times.
ATI AIW and Hauppauge PVR cards perform about identical, in terms of video quality.

I prefer the ATI software (ATI MMC) and the features it has (full bitrate/res/GOP control, VideoSoap, etc).

[tluxon]

Thanks lordsmurf,

So if I buy the PVR-250 expecting to get a better quality mpeg because of it's hardware encoder, I'm probably going to be disappointed?

I also really like having control over the framesize, bitrate, GOP structure, and VideoSoap. Are there any hardware-based encoder cards available that provide some of that functionality? How about those with ATi's Theater 550 Pro? If you had to go with a separate PCI card, which would you use?

Thanks!

Tim

Edit: One more thing - Do you know if the quality of the mpeg encoder in the PVR-250 or the Theater 550 Pro is as good as the ones used in PVRs such as the ReplayTV or Tivo Series 2?

[junkmalle]

I can't compare the two but I have the PVR-250. You can capture with the following specs:

720x480, 480x480, 352x480, 352x240
MPEG 1, MPEG 2
up to 15,000 kbps, CBR or VBR
GOP size 6 or 15

There are proc amp controls that let you massage the video before it is encoded to MPEG. You can control:

Brightness
Contrast
Hue
Saturation
Sharpness
Spatial filtering (noise reduction)
Temporal filtering (noise reduction)

If you turn off the MPEG decoding (for display on the computer) it captures with very little CPU usage -- around 3 percent on my 2.8 GHz P4. Even with the display running you can do just about anything else while capturing without fear of dropping frames.

[tluxon]

Thanks junkmalle, that's just the kind of information I was looking for. Does it also encode AC3 audio?

If I can find a PVR-250 for a decent price, I think I'm about ready to give it a try.

[junkmalle]

The PVR-250 doesn't capture AC3 audio, just MPEG audio. You have the options of, Mono, Stereo, Joint Stereo, and Dual Channel (?). Audio bitrates from 64 to 384 kbps at 32, 44.1, and 48 KHz. There's an AC3 radio button on the configuration dialog but it's greyed out.

Note that some of the video settings I referred to require 3rd party programs to control, or manual Registry changes. It's too bad Hauppauge doesn't supply controls for all the things the card can do. Two good reference sites are:

http://www.cask-of-amontillado.com/htpc.html
http://www.shspvr.com/

And be aware that most capture apps can't capture from the PVR-250. Don't expect to use VirtualDub for instance.

[Leoslocks]

The only downside, if there is one, is that I can't watch "live" through the Replay as there is a short delay due to encoding and the buffer to the hard disk.

I have a PVR 150. If I am capturing a show there is a delay between what I am capturing on the PC Monitor and what is showing on TV. I suspect this is the same issue as the Replay delay.

[lordsmurf]

Thanks lordsmurf,
So if I buy the PVR-250 expecting to get a better quality mpeg because of it's hardware encoder, I'm probably going to be disappointed?

Very likely, yes. The ATI is more susceptible to noise, but the Hauppauge goes a bit softer and can sort of hide it. Understand that this is getting VERY NITPICKY, and you won't even see any of this on a tv set. If you want to match Hauppauge softening, just use VideoSoap with like 5% softness (it's that easy).

Again, pretty much the same.

If you want to beat the ATI/Hauppauge, you need to drop some major cash for professional MPEG hardware cards, or do the old fashioned AVI captures with multi-pass MPEG encoder with a good encoder (like Procoder). Even then, you won't be gaining huge amounts, just slight things. LSI Logic chip DVD recorders are slightly better than ATI/Hauppauge, but that's mainly because of the LSI pre-processing filters.

[tedkunich]

Nobody?

I've done the searching without satisfaction.
Has anybody even compared the PVR-250 or the PVR-150 to an AIW mpeg capture?
How comparing an AIW capture to a capture from a ReplayTV? Would you agree with me that the ReplayTV makes a better mpeg-2?

I'd just like to know if I'm going to be disappointed with the capture quality if I buy a PVR-250 and wish I had stuck with an AIW for TV-to-mpeg-2 capture?

While I do not have any of the three cards you mention (I do have a AIW128Pro, but its picture quality sucks), the ReplayTV has a decent picture but it does tend to soften the image somewhat. You can fit around 3 hours of Medium Quality recording on a DVD without modification (maybe the audio if your dvd player does not support MPEG2 Audio). The beauty of the Replay is no dropped frames... ever...

T

[tluxon]

I believe I would be content with my current AIW9600Pro solution if I didn't need to go to separates. But I got a new retail BBA Radeon 9800Pro for only $180 dollars (it's not too late to return it) with the intent of softmodding it to a FireGL card (workstation graphics). The problem is if I go that route I have to find a separate tuner/capture card and I believe I'd prefer hardware mpeg encoding on a separate.

So, if isolating hardware mpeg encoders at the consumer level, are most of these hardware-based cards going to have encoders that are pretty equal when it comes to capability?
Are any more supported/flexible/better quality than the others?
Any idea if they're going to be pretty comparable to the encoders put on a ReplayTV or a Tivo?

Thanks!

[tluxon]

Okay, how about the TV Wonder Elite with the Theater 550 Pro chip? Nothing turns up in a search - anybody know anything about it and how it might compare to the Hauppauge PVR-250?

[tluxon]

Despite my good experience with using ATi AIW cards, I see that the TV Wonder Elite isn't even supported by MMC and ATi has packaged it with some terrible software. I think I'd like the PVR-250 but it seems to be almost double the price of a PVR-150.

Where can I find a PVR-250 for less than an arm and a leg or will Hauppauge get the PVR-150 audio problems fixed soon?

[The_Doman]

Will Hauppauge get the PVR-150 audio problems fixed soon?

We are trying to find that out too.
Read our latest "experiments" here:
http://www.shspvr.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=39185#39185

[reboot]

With luck, you can find a PVR-250 on ebay for a decent price. There's 2 listed right now.
Pricewatch lists from $133 up.