Assistance needed choosing a set top DVD Recorder

[Coluph]

Hey people,

I've been seeing the set top DVD Recorders getting cheaper and better, and I have been considering upgrading from my current computer / capture solution.

I am wondering if someone can give me some suggestions as to which models below are better.

What I have now:

ATI All In Wonder Radeon 7500
Numerous VCR's (JVC HRS9600U, Toshiba M623, Goldstar GHV-90M, Mitsubishi HO3)

The problem is, I need a TBC to capture some of my older not so great condition video tapes. The current setup just isn't cutting it as the ATI drops frames with these tapes. (Works great on newer tapes, but some have 10 to 15 year old recordings that just aren't strong enough anymore) I do not want to spend several hundered dollars on an obsolete VCR with a TBC, I have enough VCR's allready.

The majority of the video I am capturing is old cartoons off of VHS tapes...so I need something that has good encoding.

I've seen the below models for around the $400 mark locally...will they work...all are listed to have TBC's except for the Sony which looks like it has some form of picture enhancing circuitry...Sony is always mystical when it comes to this so I'm not sure what exactly it does)

Which model would do me the best?

Panasonic DMRE55 - this is my preferred unit right now...it does DVD-RAM, and Panasonic IMO has always made good stuff)

Toshiba DR-2 - This one is about $50 cheaper than the others. I am skeptical how well this unit will last. I have had several bad experiences with Toshiba DVD drives...they work for awhile then get flakey, however I really like their TV's.

Pioneer 320S/B - This one looks good but it doesn't have DVD-RAM. I can read DVD RAM disks in my computer and this is kind of important for editing stuff afterwards if needed. I don't trust RW's...I've never had much luck with them. (4 of my 5 RW's have gone bad, I haven't bought any more of them since)

Sony GX300 - About $30 cheaper than the Panasonic and Pioneer, It does +and - disks...No RAM (Argh) I don't know if this model has a TBC in it or not...they don't say. Sony would match the rest of my system nicely, and I have had good luck with this brand in the past.

I know there are other models out there, but this is what is available in my area, that I can see have TBC or image enhancing circuitry. Am I right to assume the lower priced units (Curtis, Liteon, Samsung etc) do not have TBC's? The specs do not list anything.

I've heard some comments on the JVC...in my perosnal opinion, JVC electronics have great specs and preformance when new, but just don't last. (I have a barely used dvd player that won't read half the disks and crashes on a regular basis, a receiver that the pre-amp chip went, a walkman the eq quit, a VCR that has unexplicably weird problems, and a 2 year old TV that is starting to have colour issues) And JVC's warranty service is horrendous (they ship stuff around, pretend to fix it and send it back without it even being looked at after the warranty runs out...in other words JVC products have no warranty).

Out of the four units above...(if any) what would be the best to use for what I'm needing it for. Converting old VHS tapes to DVD without huge frame drops?

I also have digital cable, while it's not HD (don't have an HDTV yet anyway) do any of the above units accept a Dolby Digital 5.1 connection? (Can I record a movie from the movie channel and play it back later with 5.1 surround?)

Anyone using any of these units for what I am doing and have had good results?

[lordsmurf]

The TBC found inside a DVD recorder will probably not help either. I think you should abandon your fear of RW media, and go for quality recorder, not RAM drives. TBCs inside a DVD recorder are so minimal they may as well not even exist. Since you also have a fear of JVC, go with a Pioneer. Recorders don't do digital audio input (DD5.1). Sadly, a DVD recorder is NOTHING MORE than a capture card in a standalone box. Your issues, regarding frame drops, may not disappear. Better source, or a TBC, will be inevitable.

[Coluph]

Thanks for responding so quick!

I was afraid this might be the answer I wish someone would make a consumer level TBC for these types of projects (one that doesn't cost hundreds of dollars)

My main concern with a RAM vs RW is that I know my Computer can read a DVD-RAM disk...the RW's I've had very little luck with...sometime they work sometimes they don't...maybe it's bad media (memorex?) Has JVC improved on their reliability...I just have a horrendous track record with them...literally anything I've ever owned by JVC breaks within a year of getting it, or has flakey performance after it's a few months old and their warranty people refuse to ever acknowledge something is wrong with it. What about the Toshiba or the Pioneer models I listed...are those still considered lower end units? (Up here in canada we have two electronics stores that are owned by the same company so there is a monopoly when it comes to buying anything around here...(Future Shop and Best Buy)

The tapes I'm having problems with do actually capture with the ATI, but there are about 250 frame drops by the end of a 24 min episodes...I'm sure somewhere it's glitched and dropped a noticible chunck of the show...when playing the tape it's un-noticeable...(I'm sure you know what I'm talking about...very frustrating)

I've have tried aimlessly on ebay trying to get one of those high end JVC VCR's from a few years ago with a TBC...but it's hopeless...those auctions always get sniped in the last 6 seconds, I get outbid yadda yadda, and local places have nothing but junk for sale as far as used VCR's go.

I may have the ability to get a used Sony HF990 (has flying erase, video calibration and APC) would this unit be comparable or simular or help? Right now the 'cheap' newer Toshiba suprisingly is giving me the best results. The 'expensive' JVC isn't bad either (highest model for that year of non-svhs) but doesn't like tracking tapes recorded in EP all that well.

Gets frustrating after awhile...makes me wonder if it's really worth it...too many old shows that I can't get on DVD. (or they want $20 for four episodes a disk)

[Leoslocks]

...those auctions always get sniped in the last 6 seconds

I feel your pain. I spent most of last fall trying to get a 9600, 7800 or High End Panasonic. I got close several times. sos

I purchased a JVC SR-MV30U only to be bitten by the "Loading" bug. The week I used the recorder illustrated exceptional ability to cover if not correct many problems with old sVhs tape conversions to DVD. Your JVC HRS9600U used inconjunction with the Pioneer 320S/B, Panasonic DMRE55, or the Sony GX300 would give satisfaction.
My experiences with JVC dependability have been similar through the years but I am still considering a DR-MH30S because of the impression from the conversions.

[lordsmurf]

Memorex DVD-RW = RITEKW = crap

JVC customer service issues = you dealt with wrong people = been dealing with JVC people here for 10 years (usually simple things like alignment corrections, regular maintenace most people don't do), been great to work with

Lost frames in the method you mention = get a TBC, quit worrying about DVD recorders

If only want "VHS" cheap machine = get a Sharp

Worth it? = never, but we all have hobbies we throw money at = if you don't like this hobby, but want the work done, pay somebody else to deal with the problem

Consumer-level (prosumer) TBC is the $200-300 units, pro ones cost thousands

[Coluph]

Well, pondering it over here I stopped in at a 'non best buy' owned store and they had a few models...the Toshiba, Panasonic and a Sony...as well as something made by Curtis that probably isn't worth mentioning.

I'm thinking I may try the Panasonic unit...if it doesn't do what I need it to do, I can take it back, and I've come out of it learning something. The Toshiba looks tempting but I'm reading on here people who've had problems with flakeyness with media, and these are the same issues I see with Toshiba's DVD readers as well...I can't stand that...its so frustarting to have a disk that you know is perfectly fine only to stick it in there and have have it struggle to read it.

The Sony only does +R media... I'm not a huge fan of +R, and would prefer one that does RAM as my computer drives are better at RAM than RW (not knocking either format this is just the equipment I allready own, and has proven to be reliable)

The Panasonic, while it doesn't do +R or RW, it does do the RAM and seems to be a fairly popular unit, someone also mentioned that simply running the video through the unit, (I guess running it through uses the TBC in it) fixed the frame dropping problem they were having...its cheaper than a stand alone TBC and is more functional in my case so it might be worth a shot. The Sony had a 12 bit encoder, nothing is mentioned on the panasonic...but I see the new model coming out has a better encoder, and does all the disk formats...I'm wondering if I should just wait...

Pioneer costs more than the Toshiba or the Panasonic. The Sony costs more than any of them. I'd give JVC another shot but there are no JVC dealers left in my area (likely due to the horrendous service of JVC Canada at fixing things...my VCR was gone for three months, and nothing was done to it...had to phone them back in Ontario (clear across the country) to even get the thing back!..and this was after catching the sales rep in the store demanding he DO something, and just sluffed it off and gave me the phone number of where they sent it to) I'm not even going to bother with the 3 year old TV that's starting to die. I'm also very dissappointed with my JVC XVS-300. (locks up, doesn't read some disks...even store bought ones, and I'd say it probably has less than 50 hours of use on it) My $39 Malata player works better than it does.

By the sounds of it JVC in the US has alot better service, so those of you there probably think I'm crazy saying this stuff. LS I'm not knocking your brand, (and I -really- appreciate your advice...you convinced me to try ATI's capture cards again and I'm so glad I did) As for JVC I'm sure they do have some very good products, I just seem to be unlucky enough to consistantly end up with the models they put out that just don't work very well.

The VCR is actually an HR-VP628U. I rarely see this machine on ebay...they must not have made too many of them. (Same chassis as the SVHS model...even the same Titanium colour. just no wood look sides on it)

I'd love to get my hands on one of those Datavideo TBC's but again...no dealers here that sell equipment like that for a resonable price, and ordering from the US forces you to deal with UPS, taxes, brokerage fees, and stress of getting a defective product with no where to return the thing if it doesn't work.

My conclusion...disks are cheap now anyway, so 2 hour mode if I do use the recorder for the final disks really isn't that big of a deal. While the JVC and Pioneer units I hear are more accurate, my source material was recorded on sub-standard equipment to begin with (probably the cause of the problem) so I don't think it will really make much of a difference in the finished product, and as for capturing...if simply running the video through a set top unit with a basic TBC will fix the problem, I can still use the ATI card to do the majority of the capturing if I want. The set top unit would be handy to record newer shows to a RAM disk as I don't have to leave the computer running 24 / 7 to record stuff, and I can edit the RAM disk on the computer after then burn to a DVD + or - disk afterwards.

The question is ...wait for the new models or get the one available now at clearance price...(and if there was a JVC dealer around here I would definately take a look at them, but the only place that seems to carry JVC these days are the overpriced department stores)

[Coluph]

After doing some more research I'm now left with more questions...

I see the Panasonic recorders are doing something funny and recording in 704x480. This is no good for my dvd writing software in the computer (it requires it to be the right resolution before it will burn the disk...must be 720, or 352) Those of you with Panasonic units...are you bringing the video into your computer via the ram disk and editing it? Do you have to rescale the video before you can use it? This would be a pain in the neck to do every time you want to edit something

I've seen posts that the pioneer unit does do the 720 x 480, what about the Sony? I'm starting to think the Sony might be the best deal, despite it having no RAM capability...better DAC, does both + and - media, and it matches the rest of my system. Will running the signal through either a Sony or a Pioneer unit make use of the TBC and filters? (ie run it through to the computer and use that to capture the improved signal...rumor has it the Panasonic can do this)

If you aren't using a RAM disk, how easy is it to bring the video into the computer later for editing? Is this easy? How reliable are your RW disks? How many times have you re-recorded over the same disk before it has problems?

(please don't mention JVC anymore, not an option as they aren't sold here anyway)

[lordsmurf]

Panasonic is horrible quality. Look at this:
https://www.videohelp.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=258753

Don't waste time on junk.

Again, buy the Pioneer if you want a good recorder.
If you're PAL (not NTSC) then Toshiba may be fine too.

USA/Canada Toshiba has IRE set wrong, recordings too bright. Looks bad.

The old Sony sucked. It was a paperweight. The new one gets "great reviews" but so did the old one. I need to test it out sometime next month if I can find time.

RAM in a computer takes forever to copy. Use RW media, much better. But good ones, not crap low quality RW discs. Buy Sony, TDK, Maxell, Fuji.

DAC is all marketing jibber-jabber. DVD video is 8-bit anyway.

.................... but after all is said and done, not of this addresses the original problem you had. Odds are you've still go to buy a TBC.

Why all the self-inflicted misery?
I'm giving you the answers.

[Coluph]

hmmm ok,
I'm starting to see where an RW might be more usefull...can bring it over to the DVD player in the other room and 'probably' play it there.

The reason I don't jump into a stand alone TBC, is that they are really really expensive, and really are just a box with no other functionality than running signals through it. If the TBC in the DVD Recorder will do the job, I'm getting a product that is more usefull for the money. Not to mention that I can't find anyone who sells such a device locally. Most places do not even know what a TBC is, let alone having any for sale. This also frees up the computer...no more leaving it on 24 / 7 so it kicks in to record that show at 4 am.

I'm not expecting miracles but I'm hearing good results from people who have used the Panasonic. (it seems JVC and Panasonic people are the only ones vocal on this forum..I'd like to hear more about the Pioneer or the Sony)

As for the Panasonic picture issues, I can see there is some difference there...but again my tapes aren't that great to begin with...when it comes down to it if I did have the Panasonic model, I doubt I'd notice the difference, and there seems to be alot of people using it for this purpose without too many problems.

If I could get a TBC for around the $200 CDN mark locally, I'd get one...ordering from the US is too costly. (may as well double the price by the time you do all the tinkering around to get it over the border, and wihtout a doubt UPS would break it in transit like they do with everything else they touch, and you have to pay again to send it back to wherever it came from for service)

What I figure is it can't hurt to try one of the set top units...if it works and does what I need it to do, great problem solved. If it doesn't...I take it back...I won't know for sure until I actually try one.

As it looks now tmpeg does take a 704 file fine so the resoultion change on the Panasonic isn't as big of an issue as I thought. BTW My Pioneer DVL-500 doesn't read 352x480 disks. Plays them as if you were looking at a zoomed in corner of the screen, so not every player can use that.


Now if I could just take a look at the Sony's manual again...their site is down right now.

The pioneers appear to be all sold out (Radio Shack seems to be the only place that has them)

[lordsmurf]

The reason I don't jump into a stand alone TBC, is that they are really really expensive, and really are just a box with no other functionality than running signals through it. If the TBC in the DVD Recorder will do the job, I

Right here.

It very well may NOT do it, the recorder one.
Again DVD recorder "built in TBC" are 99% worthless.

And you're already looking at spending $200 USD minimum.
Why not just FIX THE PROBLEM and spend the $200 on the AVT-8710 ?

[Coluph]

hmmm, I'd never heard of the AV Tool before. Looking at that...this just may do the trick...I just wish there was somewhere local to buy it.

I am assuming this is about the best price I'm going to find though, and the unit you are talking about? http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=productlist&A=details&Q=&sku=276891&is=REG

This works out to about $100 cheaper with taxes.

I will admit I know nothing about these units...the specs in the set top units tell me nothing about what kind of TBC is in there, but many of the settings that this has, are in the menu's of the recorders. (For $100 more I'd get more use of out the set top machine than this)

Is this really that much better?

[lordsmurf]

Yes, B&H is great.

Yes, it's better.
Especially in terms of "does it fix your problem".

Even if you buy the DVD recorder, judging from the errors you report, the FULL FRAME TBC is going to be needed, one way or another.

If you just want a set top machine to record from tv (not your problem tapes), then grab one of those $150 USD units from Walmart (or walmart.com). That'll still be at or cheaper than the ones you were looking at. You can have both for $345 USD (plus shipping/taxes, as required).


And like you said ... try the local recorder (as long as it can be returned for 100% refund). As far as your thought that "even though Panasonic is not dark, it can't hurt" ... guess again. Those were just luminance/IRE tests you saw. The from-tape quality is often full of blocks. That machine is definitely to be avoided, as it CAN and WILL make the tape worse. Try the Pioneer, again. Pioneer. Plenty of good Pioneer experience, didn't look hard enough, it's on the forum.

[Leoslocks]

Coluph, does B&H ship to Canada at those prices?

I see they have some nice Pioneer hardware in stock. If you go the 'Test it' first route, buy locally as the roundtrip shipping will kill bargin.

[gshelley61]

Didn't you mention having a JVC HR-S9600U? That is one of the best VCR's for VHS playback ever made, and includes a simple line time base corrector and noise reduction filter that works very well for most tapes... however, it will not defeat copy protection on commercially produced tapes. An inexpensive solution to that problem is to get a Sima "Copy This" or similar copy protection defeater box. They don't always work 100% of the time, but for the low cost might be worth a try.

The great thing about the AVTools AVT-8710 full frame TBC is it will not only completely eliminate all copy protection signals and provide frame synchronization and proper sync pulse timing - it also has built in picture adjustments (color, contrast, brightness, etc.) that will allow you to tweak the image prior to capturing with the DVD recorder. FWIW, I do all my work with the JVC DVD recorder now... I can't remember the last time I used my computer to capture video. It's fast, easy, far less time consuming, and the results are great.

[Coluph]

Thanks for the info, I have several VCR's, none of which have a TBC

JVC HRVP628U
Toshiba W603
Goldstar - GHV90M
Mitsubishi - HO3

As for copyguards, I have a little black box from ages ago that does work with the all in wonder quite nicely (runs on a 9 volt battery) and is one of those things you usually see around in various drug stores etc. Most of my tapes don't have copy protection on them anyway since they came from a TV source.

What I'm thinking I might be best to do is just wait another month or two...by then the new models should be out (I'm assuming Pioneer must be coming out with a new one too) As I'm hearing most of the new ones out will be able to do all the disk formats + - and RAM. It would probably be just more sensible to wait at this point, then try one of the newer units...if it fixed the problem...keep it...if it doesn't...go the TBC route.

It looks like B&H does ship to canada...but I'm allmost certian you are going to get dinged with a tax bill when it arrives as well. (At least they don't foce you to use UPS!)

[lordsmurf]

If anything, RAM is a dying format. Expect to see it less and less.

[gshelley61]

For tapes with no copy protection that are in reasonably good condition, the built-in line TBC's that some DVD recorders have may be sufficient for preventing image distortion and drop outs caused by timing sync errors. However, a full frame TBC like the Datavideo TBC-1000 or the AVTools AVT-8710 would be much more effective and would likely allow perfect captures of tapes that are in bad shape or are multi-generational copies.

[Captain Satellite]

You might find this thread helpful in making your decision:

https://www.videohelp.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=254032

[Coluph]

OK, this is really helping me out guys thanks...after snooping around I did find a JVC dealer. They have the DRM10 for $349.99 cdn as an online store price. (free shipping too)

This is the exact same price as the Toshiba and the Panasonic units I've been looking at. I see pro's and cons of both units...personally I think the Panasonic is a more reliable brand, I have had a horrid track record with JVC, but the JVC unit does offer both RAM and RW options, while the Panasonic does not. From the sounds of it, those who are using the JVC unit have had good success with it. The look of the machine is also a bit more slick and less clunky looking than the Panasonic.

I do not want to put salt in the wound of those who have had problems with the JVC's loading issues, but statisticly...how common is this? Should I buy an extended warranty on this machine to be on the safe side? Is there a date of manufacture I should be looking for on the box to ensure that the unit I am getting is not one from the defective batch?

Normally I do not beleive in extended warranties, but the brand name itself is reason enough for me to strongly consider getting it.

I do not want to have to buy another one of these units in a years time if the drive decides to quit accepting disks.

I would like to see if this machine will preform well enough that I will not need to fork out the money for a TBC...if it works, this way is cheaper, and at the very least will get rid of the need to always have to have the computer running in case a show I want to record starts. (will give me back the computer to use as a computer instead of a dedicated recording device)

Would the JVC be the better choice for what I am doing? (If I do not have external color correctors tbc's, or SVHS vcr's, or should I wait for the newer model Panasonic...which I'm assuming is going to cost more than $349 and won't be around until Summer or Fall)

[lordsmurf]

The loading problem is only common enough that it's known about. It's not something that inflicts every machine, or even any kind of large percentage. And if you see it, JVC has said repeatedly that they will fix it for free, regardless of the warranty period.

The whole issue has been over-dramaticized by people that want you to be afraid of the boogeyman. Every machine has flaws. Panasonic HDD's are notorious for dying, and giving trouble with newer 8x -R media, just as one example. In all these cases, get it fixed, should it break. Worry about the visual quality most. I did that, I have a JVC and LiteOn, and both are giving me trouble-free operations so far.

If you want to copy commercial VHS tapes ith copy protection, the ONLY RECORDER that will work for you is the LiteOn/ILO series that can be hacked. The JVC actually handles bad tapes pretty well, without need of a TBC, more or less.

[zorankarapancev]

If you want to buy JVC DVD recorder then you should look also for proc amp. gshelley61 can give you some advices about the best available models and the correct settings.

If you are not in a hurry, wait for the new models from Panasonic and JVC. The Panasonic recorders will be completely redesign and JVC models should come with properly set black level.

[Coluph]

sounds good. For commercial tapes I can continue capturing using the ATI setup if needed. I was mainly looking for a way I could

a - not have to leave the computer on all the time to record new material, thus a set top unit would be a good choice (can edit and burn the final disk on the PC anyway)

b - have something with some form of TBC so that I can capture tapes that the signal isn't 100% perfect that the ATI won't pick up. These are mainly tapes either in EP speed or tapes that have allready had the commercials edited out of. (Play fine but the slight glitches in the signal caused by the flying erase on consumer grade VCR's obviously still cause problems when capturing)

I'm hoping this way I will not have to buy a stand alone TBC, if I do in the end...thats the way the ball bounces.

If it ends up only being a few tapes that don't work, I can always try to find other sources for those shows...hopefully they just aren't ones that are too hard to find.

[Coluph]

Well I came to a conclusion and ordered the JVC unit tonight. I went to the place that had them and they didn't have any in stock (not even a demo on display) but they had a sale going on so I got it for $327...with taxes that comes to about $25 to $30 cheaper than the other units so this kind of made the decision, which is about $266 US. (hope that was a good deal)

They had a 'malata' branded recorder in there for another $25 less or so...but they didn't know anything about it and I'm sure the JVC would be a better unit that that. Albeit their $35 DVD player I bought has been fantastic.

They are trying to get me to do the extra 2 year warranty on this thing for $40...I usually leave those and just stick with the mfg's warranty but hearing the loading problems I'm wondering if this wouldn't be a bad idea or not. I'll probably end up leaving it to save some money.

I hope this unit does the job...I don't usually buy things without being able to look at it, but I guess it's not like I'll be testing it out in the store anyway...they never have them hooked up.

[Leoslocks]

Be sure to post back with initial impression and results. Give yourself a couple of weeks and post again with your opinion of the finished product. I am getting ready to get an MH30. (your unit with a HD)

Cheers!

[oldfart13]

To be fair, I have never complained about the HDD in my Panasonic E80H. I've never formated it and I have used it daily since buying it in October 2004. I'm using it right now to produce a playlist dub onto a DVD-R that I'm filling up. The only time I've had it U99 was during a thunderstorm when the unit lost power momentarily. I do a lot of program divides but no shorten as I run the DVD-RAM discs to the computer for some stuff for post processing. Please remember that nothing on this board is gospel, just opinion...

[gshelley61]

Please remember that nothing on this board is gospel, just opinion...

Amen!

[Coluph]

Well I picked up the JVC DR-M10S today. Here's my first impressions with it.

Took it out of the box, not having seen it in the store this was the fist time I actually saw the unit not just a picture. It seems well built, had a bit of weight to it and had primarily a metal case...some I've seen have all plastic...eek.

Plugged it in...I was a little worried. The first time it sat there for about 20 to 30 seconds flashing 'loading' on the front display...the display went a bit darker and then
brighter again and then shut off. Hit the power button it came on. (whew, this gave me a bit of a scare) Popped in a dvd-r of Jakers! that was recorded in my pc...plays quite nicely. And the blue light around the disk door makes it look pretty spiffy too.

Unpacked the remote...this is rather funny...it comes with PANASONIC batteries in the box. The information display is well thought out. It shows you how far you are in the disks with a little gauge...reminds me of the old Mitsubishi VCR's with it's gas gauge to tell you how much tape is left...tells you the audio format right on the screen too..mpeg2 audio...nice!. Stopped the disk and looked through the menus...all look pretty self explanitory...I see it has a cable box control...that will come in really handy, allthough you have to send away to get the cable eye to make it work.

Now to try some recording...popped in a DVD-RAM disk...Panasonic branded, put the unit on Teletoon (Cartoon Network equivelant) and hit record to see what we got...left it at the standard SP speed...recorded a few minutes of Flintstones.

Playback...I can tell that it's not a live video feed, but this definately looks better than what I would have got throguh the computer. The source was just through the tuner...analog...the recording actually looks slightly cleaner...the typical 'snow' you see is gone...and definately better than a VHS tape would get.

Lets try the live memory playback...hit the play while it's recording...this works really well...live check lets you see the live picture that it's recording in a PIP window in the corner.

Playback of a +R disk...this unit doesn't specifically say it supports this format, insterting a generic brand recorded +R disk the unit treats it as though it is a regular DVD (store bought) a pre-recorded -R will show up as a -R in the display. +R disks seem to play fine.

Now to try an MP3 playback...put in a DVD-R with MP3's. It works. None of my other DVD players can do this. Nice! It does not let you see the contents of the disk, but it will list the track and title you are playing.

Tried a disk with jpg's. This took annoyingly long time to come up, however once loaded works quite nicely. This would be a downside...but this isn't the primary function of this unit anyway...perhaps it's the particular CDR it doesn't like as well...its pretty old.

Tried a CDR with mp3's. This came up much faster than the last disk and the navigation controls are well designed. A playlist would be nice but I have to remember this isn't a PC


Ok, now for what I'd like to use this for...VHS to DVD...hooked up a standard VHS VCR, and chose a test subject...a pre-recorded tape of dink the dinosaur....vcr to dvd recorder nothing in between. Recorded a few minutes and played back...wow..this is beautiful. The DVD looks better than the tape does. The results are also better than using realtime MPEG on the ATI, it also looks better than the AVI to TMPEG encode I did, that used some filters and too 8 hours to do...the picture was crisp the colours more even and very little artifacting that I could see. The color bleed I was getting via the ATI was even cleaned up a bit. Tried another tape...one I am absolutely sure has some form of copyguard...Who Framed Roger Rabbit VHS, pre-recorded...in the display it reads...copy prohibited...cannot record...however the video running through it...looks normal...not like you used to see when you'd try to run it from VCR to VCR...is this the TBC at work?

Tried the tape again with the 'black box' stabilizer...this doesn't fool the unit..it will still give you the messasge. Conclusion...this won't copy macrovision encoded tapes. I may try this with an older VCR later just to see if that will allow it to work...I'm doubtful it will. I have a suspicion that simply running the video through the unit is making use of the filtering and cleanup features of the recorder...meaning you could simply run it through and still capture with the ATI card (or equivelant) and a get rid of the macrovision, and b get a clean signal...no dropped frames? Something I will try later and report back what I get.

Next test...old VHS tape...second generation copy recorded in EP...This drops frames on the ATI. Test subject, Teddy Ruxpin...this tape looks pretty bad even just playing it. Hit record give it a few minutes

Playback time....WOW! Not only did it capture the clip I tried, without any noticeable drops...the picture looks awesome in comparison to what I was getting off of the original tape...even if this did capture onto the computer, the time it would need to run tmpeg to get filtering to do this kind of cleanup would take hours and hours and hours of computer time, the DVD recorder does it realtime!

After looking at what this can do...I cannot undestand why anyone is still wasting their time capturing on the PC. This does a better job, and is easier. I don't think I'll be using the computer to do this much anymore...maybe for the odd macrovision encoded tape, or on the rare occasion that two shows I want to record are going to be on at the same time.

So my initial impressions of the unit...I like...I should have got one of these a long time ago.

I'll post again after I've been using it for awhile to mention the quirks and bugs...I'm sure there will be some.

My first peeve would be lack of channel up and down buttons, and a menu button on the front of the unit. (like the JVC VCR's) I'm someone who rarely uses remote controls.

[gshelley61]

After looking at what this [JVC DR-M10] can do...I cannot undestand why anyone is still wasting their time capturing on the PC. This does a better job, and is easier. I don't think I'll be using the computer to do this much anymore...maybe for the odd macrovision encoded tape, or on the rare occasion that two shows I want to record are going to be on at the same time.

This is exactly how I feel about it. I can't remember the last time I used the computer method to capture, edit, filter, frameserve, encode, author and burn a DVD. I do trim and re-author my JVC DVD-RW recordings on the computer to create "final" DVD-R's, though.

As far as defeating copy protection goes, a full frame standalone TBC will do that for you. AVTools AVT-8710 is compact and has picture adjustment (proc amp) controls as a valuable added feature. The Datavideo TBC-1000 is another unit that gets high praise around here. You might also try a more recent copy box like the Sima "Copy This!" unit. They are inexpensive and many people say that they work fine for nearly all commercial VHS tapes.

Glad to hear you like the image quality you are getting from the JVC!

[Leoslocks]

The only people I hear condeming the JVC are those that do not have it.

Even watching VHS tapes on it are like watching DVD's. No tape jitter et al.

I am holding off buying the MH-30 because I havent finished my taxes. It is the time not the money holding me back.

[vhelp]

So far, and based off my knowledge of seeing the various pics and
reading peoples responses back, I would have to say the order is
a close proximity, give or take users "prefrence in features" a
given unit has to offer:

* JVC ------------ ( DR-M10 )
* PIONEER ------ ( DVR-220 )
* PANASONIC -- ( E55, Exx )
* iLO ------------- ( DVDR04 )
.
* other no-name brands not posted or reported here on this forum yet.

The above FOUR unit brands are the most popular.

I happen to have the iLO above. So far, I like it. And at this
point in time, and with respect to the IRE issue(s) floating around
here and there, I'm not totally sold on that as an issue to weigh
against other brands. Currently, it's down to the point of being
pleased with the results. I also believe that it's the *units* that
these DVD Recorder's are recording *from* that give a Plus/Minus result,
reflecting on these recorders in the form of IRE as the culprit. That
(IMO) is my final assumption with the various IRE-related issues. So,
with respect to the IRE, I would say that its a separate issue, and not
to be used as a final purchase judgment

So, until the IRE issues with various unit name brands can be solved
100% perfectly, I would not factor that into the fianl purchase choice

Also, you have to learn a few new atticuts (spelling) of each unit.
They all have their respective quirks. In one, I found on my iLO unit
that if you re-format (twice) the disk, you'll have *NO* issues with
playback or especially playing on a computer. I had some issues with
this when I first got my iLO unit. Actually, I used their included
disk as the first preliminary tests that I ran when I first got the unit.
But the disks I'm using right now and without issues are TDK that I
bought some year in a half ago, sitting around and wating to be used.
These are +RW disks. They come pre-formated. But I think that this is
the issue, and the reason why I gave the tip out w/ respect to formating
the disk.

iLO tip of the day:
* Format TDK +RW disk twice, for a flawless reading performance.

I've had my iLO unit for a week now. And so far, I have nothing to
complain about it.

-vhelp 3155