Wormholes

[the bomb]

Does anybody think these are real and where would you end up if you went into one.?

[doppletwo]

Yeah they are real.

[the bomb]

But where do you go if you enter one?

[doppletwo]

somewhere else probably.

I think I am wore out from the superbowl.

All I consumed today is Beer, donuts, and pizza and beer .

Unfortunately in that order too.

[thecoalman]

But where do you go if you enter one?

Caps ass.......

[the bomb]

[Ripper2860]

The Emerald City with the flying Monkees probably.

However -- It could be Venus where all the women are amazon women and I, being the only male, would be passed around as their love slave.

[bazooka]

But where do you go if you enter one?

Caps ass.......

Too much info

[gummyAvenger]

I think they're only real in theory.
If you imagine the universe as being like a blanket that has folds and wrinkles in it, then a wormhole would be like an opening from one side of a fold to the other, so it's like a big shortcut...

                            | |
                         |       |
                       |           |
                      |             |
                     wormhole-------------->
                    |                 |
                   |                   |
     | | | | | | |                     | | | | | | | | |  <-universe

[northcat_8]

where would you end up if you went into one.?

inside the woman I figured at your age you would have figured that out by now

[BJ_M]

sure they are real or something like one ... i bet we dont even know 1% of the crazy crap in the universe ...

i mean after all we are still discovering stuff every year in our own oceans (some of it pretty big) and still dont know really how the center of our own earth is composed ..

[northcat_8]

and still dont know really how the center of our own earth is composed ..

Tootsie Roll center?

[bazooka]

and still dont know really how the center of our own earth is composed ..

Tootsie Roll center?

It takes three licks to get to the center.

[doppletwo]

I thought string theory changes space from being a blanket.

No, I don't think there are natural wormholes.

[pyrate83]

Does anybody believe that there is other life out in the universe? I do. I bet there is some planet we haven't yet discovered where the people are either really sophisticated or are still in the caveman stage of development.

[northcat_8]

Does anybody believe that there is other life out in the universe? I do. I bet there is some planet we haven't yet discovered where the people are either really sophisticated or are still in the caveman stage of development.

Or are exactly where we are in development...

Is there life out there? I don't know...don't really care, it would be cool if there were I guess, but it's not a focal point of my interest.

[pyrate83]

Does anybody believe that there is other life out in the universe? I do. I bet there is some planet we haven't yet discovered where the people are either really sophisticated or are still in the caveman stage of development.

Or are exactly where we are in development...

Is there life out there? I don't know...don't really care, it would be cool if there were I guess, but it's not a focal point of my interest.

So what happens if you could travel into outer space without ever stopping? Would you eventually arrive back at the point you started at or would your travels be neverending. That right there makes you think.

[liquid217]

Does anybody believe that there is other life out in the universe? I do. I bet there is some planet we haven't yet discovered where the people are either really sophisticated or are still in the caveman stage of development.

To quote Prot from 'KPAX'

There's enough life on earth to fill fifty planets... plants, animals, people, fungi, viruses... all jostling to find their place. Bouncing off each other, feeding off each other... connected.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wormhole

[BJ_M]

The Schwarzschild metric admits negative square root as well as positive square root solutions for the geometry.

The complete Schwarzschild geometry consists of a black hole, a white hole, and two Universes connected at their horizons by a wormhole.

The negative square root solution inside the horizon represents a white hole. A white hole is a black hole running backwards in time. Just as black holes swallow things irretrievably, so also do white holes spit them out. White holes cannot exist, since they violate the second law of thermodynamics.

General Relativity is time symmetric. It does not know about the second law of thermodynamics, and it does not know about which way cause and effect go. But we do.

The negative square root solution outside the horizon represents another Universe. The wormhole joining the two separate Universes is known as the Einstein-Rosen bridge.

Do Schwarzschild wormholes really exist?

Schwarzschild wormholes certainly exist as exact solutions of Einstein's equations.

However:
# When a realistic star collapses to a black hole, it does not produce a wormhole
# The complete Schwarzschild geometry includes a white hole, which violates the second law of thermodynamics
# Even if a Schwarzschild wormhole were somehow formed, it would be unstable and fly apart

Kruskal-Szekeres metric

Kruskal time tK and radial coordinate rK (respectively the vertical and horizontal coordinate in the Kruskal spacetime diagram) are related to Schwarzschild time t and radial coordinate r, the circumferential radius, by the following transformation. Let R denote what Misner, Thorne & Wheeler (1973, ``Gravitation'') call the `tortoise coordinate'
R = r + ln|r - 1|
(in units where the speed of light and the Schwarzschild radius are both unity, c = 1 and rs = 1). The tortoise coordinate R has the property that radially infalling and outgoing light rays satisfy
R + t = constant
R - t = constant
respectively. Kruskal time tK and Kruskal radius rK are then defined by
rK + tK = 2 e(R + t)/2
rK - tK = ± 2 e(R - t)/2
where the overall sign in the last equation is positive (+) outside the Schwarzschild radius, r > 1, and negative (-) inside the Schwarzschild radius, r < 1. The Kruskal metric is
ds2 = r-1 e-r ( - dtK2 + drK2 ) + r2 do2 .
The Schwarzschild radial coordinate r, which appears in the factors r-1 e-r and r2 in the Kruskal metric, is to be understood as an implicit function of the Kruskal coordinates tK and rK.

The Kruskal metric shows explicitly that the Schwarzschild geometry is well-behaved at the Schwarzschild radius, r = 1.


Penrose diagram of the Schwarzschild geometry

Penrose diagram of the Schwarzschild geometry.

Penrose invented his diagrams as a device for depicting the complete causal structure of any given geometry. Penrose diagrams map everything in the geometry on to a finite diagram, including points at infinite distance and in the infinite past and future. Light rays (null geodesics) are arranged so that they always point at 45o from the upward vertical.

Penrose diagrams are spacetime diagrams in which the metric takes a certain generic, although not unique, form. In the Penrose diagram of the Schwarzschild geometry at left, the Penrose time tP and radial rP coordinate are related to the Kruskal time tK and radial rK coordinate by
rP + tP =
rK + tK 2 + |rK + tK|
,
rP - tP =
rK - tK 2 + |rK - tK|
.





http://casa.colorado.edu/~ajsh/schww.html

[BJ_M]

Very good video showing

"To the Edge with Einstein"

SPACETIME WRINKLES

http://archive.ncsa.uiuc.edu/Cyberia/NumRel/NumRelHome.html

[lordsmurf]

Does anybody think these are real and where would you end up if you went into one.?

Were you watching Outer Limits, by chance?

The Jon Glassner story (served as basis for SG1 Goa'uld)

[Doramius]

I think wormholes would exist if you believe in the fact that time and space can be bridged or ripped. However, time does not exist. This has been proven, though the whole theory and fascination with it is greatly looked into. If a person travels at the speed of light and looks at a clock face, they'll notice the hands of the clock aren't moving because they are following the reflection of light. That does not mean a moment of passing has halted. The people standing at the clock would continue to age and equally would the person traveling at the speed of light. The person traveling at the speed of light would also feel that the hand has stood still for too long and not moved. If a 20 year old moved at the speed of light out into space and arrived back at the age of 40, the people here on earth would have also aged only 20 years. Just because you move 100mph on a highway, does not mean you're going to age slower than a person walking 1mph. You're just moving faster. To keep a person from aging, you litterally have to stop or slow the natural progression of human development. The closest thought would be cryogenics, which has nothing to do with time or space.

Basically Space is 3D, just like any physical space or object. It just goes out infinitely in every direction. To feel that space and time are a fabric would be like thinking the earth was flat and if possible to curl the flat surface, at some point you'd be able to jump from the north pole to south pole just from jumping from one point to the other.

Blackholes are just imploded and compressed stars of mass density. Being that space is a vacuum, the only thing that gets sucked to it is matter. However, it has a revolutionary movement and therefore still has some sort of orbital movement. It just doesn't sit there spitting what it eats into some other dimension or parallel universe. It just sucks until it's density explodes into supernova, if at all.

[lordsmurf]

I see you've been following the most recent findings of Hawking.

[BJ_M]

I see you've been following the most recent findings of Hawking.

not that recent -- I was writing about this stuff in high school

[lordsmurf]

Well, what I mean is Hawking only this past year decided that black holes do not connected to other universes, but rather suck in and at some point, explode back out. The "wormhole" theory, in relation to black holes, is bunk.

[Doramius]

I've always had a thought like that with Blackholes. I remember telling that to my dad back in the early 90's watching the old Disney BlackHole movie with Ernest Borgnine, Anthony Perkins, & Maximilian Schell. Though I like the stories of Transdimension, and alternate universes. It just doesn't pair up properly. Time & space are just not a 2D fabric. It can't just overlap. That would mean there's an end of sorts somewhere. I could see something in StarWars that could jump ships to lightspeed towards another spot. That's sling shot theory, which still relys upon 3D objects with traditional matter & energy properties.

It's like creating a theory that a mirror is really an identical, opposite universe where everything is identical except visually "mirror imaged". That's provably false as the reflection can be physically brought down to light energy patterns upon a reflective surface. Though the story of an alternate universe is interesting, it just isn't true.

I edited the last statement, because it just went off on a tangent, but I can go deeper if someone wants to know my thoughts in a PM. Otherwise, we'll leave this thought here as is.

[Darth Paris]

The Schwarzschild metric admits negative square root as well as positive square root solutions for the geometry.

The complete Schwarzschild geometry consists of a black hole, a white hole, and two Universes connected at their horizons by a wormhole.

The negative square root solution inside the horizon represents a white hole. A white hole is a black hole running backwards in time. Just as black holes swallow things irretrievably, so also do white holes spit them out. White holes cannot exist, since they violate the second law of thermodynamics.

General Relativity is time symmetric. It does not know about the second law of thermodynamics, and it does not know about which way cause and effect go. But we do.

The negative square root solution outside the horizon represents another Universe. The wormhole joining the two separate Universes is known as the Einstein-Rosen bridge.

Do Schwarzschild wormholes really exist?

Schwarzschild wormholes certainly exist as exact solutions of Einstein's equations.

However:
# When a realistic star collapses to a black hole, it does not produce a wormhole
# The complete Schwarzschild geometry includes a white hole, which violates the second law of thermodynamics
# Even if a Schwarzschild wormhole were somehow formed, it would be unstable and fly apart

Kruskal-Szekeres metric

Kruskal time tK and radial coordinate rK (respectively the vertical and horizontal coordinate in the Kruskal spacetime diagram) are related to Schwarzschild time t and radial coordinate r, the circumferential radius, by the following transformation. Let R denote what Misner, Thorne & Wheeler (1973, ``Gravitation'') call the `tortoise coordinate'
R = r + ln|r - 1|
(in units where the speed of light and the Schwarzschild radius are both unity, c = 1 and rs = 1). The tortoise coordinate R has the property that radially infalling and outgoing light rays satisfy
R + t = constant
R - t = constant
respectively. Kruskal time tK and Kruskal radius rK are then defined by
rK + tK = 2 e(R + t)/2
rK - tK = ± 2 e(R - t)/2
where the overall sign in the last equation is positive (+) outside the Schwarzschild radius, r > 1, and negative (-) inside the Schwarzschild radius, r < 1. The Kruskal metric is
ds2 = r-1 e-r ( - dtK2 + drK2 ) + r2 do2 .
The Schwarzschild radial coordinate r, which appears in the factors r-1 e-r and r2 in the Kruskal metric, is to be understood as an implicit function of the Kruskal coordinates tK and rK.

The Kruskal metric shows explicitly that the Schwarzschild geometry is well-behaved at the Schwarzschild radius, r = 1.


Penrose diagram of the Schwarzschild geometry

Penrose diagram of the Schwarzschild geometry.

Penrose invented his diagrams as a device for depicting the complete causal structure of any given geometry. Penrose diagrams map everything in the geometry on to a finite diagram, including points at infinite distance and in the infinite past and future. Light rays (null geodesics) are arranged so that they always point at 45o from the upward vertical.

Penrose diagrams are spacetime diagrams in which the metric takes a certain generic, although not unique, form. In the Penrose diagram of the Schwarzschild geometry at left, the Penrose time tP and radial rP coordinate are related to the Kruskal time tK and radial rK coordinate by
rP + tP =
rK + tK 2 + |rK + tK|
,
rP - tP =
rK - tK 2 + |rK - tK|
.





http://casa.colorado.edu/~ajsh/schww.html

You could have made that whole thing up and I would have no idea.

[Doramius]

You probably didn't even care about the information, but now that you know and have it stuck in your head it will haunt you and make you watch more StarWars, StarTrek, and others of the like just because you want to see where they come up with these theories. And then it will plague you as you delve deeper into the details of their theories and you start concocting you own thoughts on the series. At which point you've become so absorbed by it that you must watch it every day just to keep your sanity. If you miss an episode you'll be wrought with torment finding that your only mecca of mind stability is visiting the comicon and getting autographs of sublevel characters from the series'. At which point you start collecting items because you see the extreme increase in value, to which you invest money in hopes to acquire more money. But you don't sell it. You hold onto it as if it's becaome a part of you. To sell it would be like cutting off your mostly used arm. It draws your every gaze and attraction. It's a downward spiral in which you cannot escape as you find youself 100lbs. overweight and sending in applications at the age of 42 for the young ensign position aboard the new series' space craft. If you get accepted, then you will have become the evil in which you were first intrigued about. An unholy Hell in which you lose the difference of reality and fiction.

In easier terms - It's a bunch of jibberish you don't want to go into without becomming a stupid intellect.

[BJ_M]

well it will not make me watch DS9 repeats ..

[Grimey]

You could have made that whole thing up and I would have no idea.

he probably did :P