Wormholes

[Doramius]

Again, you're using objects of a mechanical nature. Let's take 2 identical pigs ears and see how fast one deteriorates at a high speed as opposed to one that's not. I haven't disputed that the clocks were different. I'm saying if you move fast, the earth isn't going to move around the sun any slow or faster. You're still going to age the same rate as everyone one earth that's not moving the speed of light.

[mcbit]

Hi Guy & Gals I'm new here and couldn't resist joining in

The only way in which an object can be fully described is to assign it 4 dimensions (3 spatial, 1 temporal)

I'm 6ft but I wasn't 40years ago

If you're not already bored with this thread try this link

http://www.gravitywarpdrive.com/General_Relativity.htm

Good clear explanation if a bit long winded!!!

[glockjs]

we dont even know what the hell is at the bottom of our oceans. we havnt even totally explored our planet that we have lived on forever. so yes, i think its a possibility. but nothing we will come to see on our lifetime

[flaninacupboard]

Again, you're using objects of a mechanical nature. Let's take 2 identical pigs ears and see how fast one deteriorates at a high speed as opposed to one that's not. I haven't disputed that the clocks were different. I'm saying if you move fast, the earth isn't going to move around the sun any slow or faster. You're still going to age the same rate as everyone one earth that's not moving the speed of light.

How will you measure that? if you agree the clocks will show different times how can you be sure the same amount of time has passed for both "pigs ears"?

[the bomb]

Hi Guy & Gals I'm new here and couldn't resist joining in

The only way in which an object can be fully described is to assign it 4 dimensions (3 spatial, 1 temporal)

I'm 6ft but I wasn't 40years ago

If you're not already bored with this thread try this link

http://www.gravitywarpdrive.com/General_Relativity.htm

Good clear explanation if a bit long winded!!!

Welcome to the OT!

[yoda313]

Hello,

Isn't that why they're looking into DARK MATTER and other unexplained phenomenon to account for variations in EINSTEIN's theories???? I think that's part of it.....

Kevin

[Doramius]

Again, you're using objects of a mechanical nature. Let's take 2 identical pigs ears and see how fast one deteriorates at a high speed as opposed to one that's not. I haven't disputed that the clocks were different. I'm saying if you move fast, the earth isn't going to move around the sun any slow or faster. You're still going to age the same rate as everyone one earth that's not moving the speed of light.

How will you measure that? if you agree the clocks will show different times how can you be sure the same amount of time has passed for both "pigs ears"?

Level of deterioration would be the same.

[Garibaldi]

Hi Guy & Gals I'm new here and couldn't resist joining in

The only way in which an object can be fully described is to assign it 4 dimensions (3 spatial, 1 temporal)

I'm 6ft but I wasn't 40years ago

If you're not already bored with this thread try this link

http://www.gravitywarpdrive.com/General_Relativity.htm

Good clear explanation if a bit long winded!!!

Yeah I've been to that site before, its about Bob Lazar and how he worked at S4 with an alien spacecraft that uses element 114 to create gravity waves to distort space around the ship or something like that. I posted that on here a couple months ago but someone told me it was completely incorrect, that gravity doesn't propogate infinitely fast.

[mcbit]

Actually its a translation of the french web site of Jean Francois Bariant translated by Ken Wright. The theories are "mainstream".

Again, you're using objects of a mechanical nature. Let's take 2 identical pigs ears and see how fast one deteriorates at a high speed as opposed to one that's not. I haven't disputed that the clocks were different. I'm saying if you move fast, the earth isn't going to move around the sun any slow or faster. You're still going to age the same rate as everyone one earth that's not moving the speed of light.

How will you measure that? if you agree the clocks will show different times how can you be sure the same amount of time has passed for both "pigs ears"?

Level of deterioration would be the same.

Doramius, how do you know when no-one else does??


Many thanks to "the Bomb" for the welcome

[Garibaldi]

Actually its a translation of the french web site of Jean Francois Bariant translated by Ken Wright. The theories are "mainstream".

Again, you're using objects of a mechanical nature. Let's take 2 identical pigs ears and see how fast one deteriorates at a high speed as opposed to one that's not. I haven't disputed that the clocks were different. I'm saying if you move fast, the earth isn't going to move around the sun any slow or faster. You're still going to age the same rate as everyone one earth that's not moving the speed of light.

How will you measure that? if you agree the clocks will show different times how can you be sure the same amount of time has passed for both "pigs ears"?

Level of deterioration would be the same.

Doramius, how do you know when no-one else does??


Many thanks to "the Bomb" for the welcome

Do you mean the site I was talking about, www.gravitwarpdrive.com?

[mcbit]

Do you mean the site I was talking about, www.gravitwarpdrive.com?

"www.gravitywarpdrive.com" is a site by Ken Wright who is trying to, and indeed claims to have developed the physical theories which would make "Warp Drive a la Star Trek" a reality.

The sub pages provide "physical evidence" for his theories, ie Rosswell, S4, the Zeta Reticulli incident, etc......... Basically, if you believe in extra-terrestrials then you have to believe in super-lightspeed travel as otherwise the distances are too great.

However, Einstein's General Theory of Relativity is presented at "www.gravitywarpdrive.com/General_Relativity.htm" also in support of his own theories. The theories put forward on this page are "mainstream"

And before you ask "Do you believe in Little Green Men?" My answer would have to be that its very likely that there is life on other planets but I don't agree necessarily that they have visited us here on earth

[vitualis]

Doramius:

We are talking about atomic clocks. That is, the time is calculated on the intrinsic nuclear frequencies...

Time does slow down in high velocity situations.

Other proof:
The Earth is bombarded by high energy particles generated by collisions in the upper atmosphere. Some of these particles should (without general relativity) never be detected on the surface of the Earth because their half-life is so short. However, they are detected.

Why?

The reason is that the particles experience time dilation because they are travel at extremely high velocities.

Read: http://www2.slac.stanford.edu/vvc/theory/halflife.html

As I stated before, you are arguing against something that is fact. Time dilation exists and can be demonstrated experimentally EASILY. Whether you AGREE with general relativity is a secondary point but it does predict (and correctly calculates) time dilation.

Regards.

[Garibaldi]

Do you mean the site I was talking about, www.gravitwarpdrive.com?

"www.gravitywarpdrive.com" is a site by Ken Wright who is trying to, and indeed claims to have developed the physical theories which would make "Warp Drive a la Star Trek" a reality.

The sub pages provide "physical evidence" for his theories, ie Rosswell, S4, the Zeta Reticulli incident, etc......... Basically, if you believe in extra-terrestrials then you have to believe in super-lightspeed travel as otherwise the distances are too great.

However, Einstein's General Theory of Relativity is presented at "www.gravitywarpdrive.com/General_Relativity.htm" also in support of his own theories. The theories put forward on this page are "mainstream"

And before you ask "Do you believe in Little Green Men?" My answer would have to be that its very likely that there is life on other planets but I don't agree necessarily that they have visited us here on earth

How close to reality do you think his theories are? It seems like they are really going out on a limb when dealing with gravity. It is interesting that it is so detailed though, seems like he knows what he's talking about.

[Doramius]

40 years ago you were one size, but you've gained mass by ingesting other mass.

Who cares wether it's just me who knows this theory or 500,000 others. That's irrelevant. Much of the way we perceive time is based on the rotation of the earth around the sun. No every planet revloves around the star the same way. It'll have different gravitation and may rotate faster than other planets. Let's say in another galaxy there's a yellow sun and an M-class planet that revloves that sun just the same distance away as the earth is from our sun. However it rotates slower or revolves faster. Time on that planet may seem to move faster or slower, but the developmental growth would stay the same. throw a man and a woman on the planet and it would take 9 EARTH months for the woman to give birth, regardless of how fast or slow that planet perceives time.

More scientists, that have and still do exist, have been wrong than they have been right. An old science professor once told me that he constantly had thoughts and theories he thought were true, but found they were incorrect after figuring out the mathematics. Einstein could never do this. He always admitted, he was an incompetent in methematics.

Einsteins theory is presented as a realtive nature. It seems that time is suspended or is going in reverse when related to that of earth's perception. When you step away from earth's perception an understand a specific physical item's or being's own make-up, You realize time doesn't exist. Only the here and now. no matter what it will always follow it's own nature of development. You take a man and put him on a space ship and send him at the speed of light for 10 earth years, he will only be 10 years older along with the rest of the world. He's just several billion miles away. You turn him around and send him back for 10 years at the speed of light. He will be 20 years older and so will everyone on the earth. He will not have grown any faster than the people on the earth. Again, just because you're moving faster or slower doesn't mean it will accelerate or reduce your body's own physical nature of growth. It's impossible. When I was 2 years old I was much smaller, but I ingested mass of food. THis became part of my mass. I didn't just grow because of sheer time. Energy doesn't start or end. It always exists here and now, which means time does not exist as a dimension. Factor, Yes. Dimension, No.

[vitualis]

What?

The concept of time dilation was predicted by general relativity. Newtonian physics does not explain it.

Experimentally we can prove that time dilation exists. We are talking about the intrinsic passing of time, not the sensory perception of time being passed by humans.

What part of this don't you understand?

If you send an astronaut out into space and accelerate him or her to near the speed of light and then back again, there will be relativistic effects. For the astronaut, it may only have seemed that 10 years have passed (subjective, and physically). That means, his body has aged ten years, he thinks that 10 years have passed, and all physical measurements of time on the spaceship will have calculated 10 years.

However, relatively on Earth, 20 years may have passed. That is, every one relative to the astronaut is 10 years older than him or her.

Go to high enough relativistic speeds, then time dilation can have huge effects. For example, 1000 years passing on Earth while only 10 years on the spaceship.

As I stated before, time dilation is a proven measurable physical phenomenon. The only reason GPS satellites work is that we take into account the relativistic effects of time differentials between the satellites and on Earth.

Einstein's theory of general relativity may not be correct, but that doesn't mean that time dilation doesn't exist. It does. We can measure it.

It's like saying that Newton's theory of gravitation is wrong (which it technically is) and thus denying the existance of gravity. The physical phenomenon exists. Live with it. The debate is whether the explanation of the phenomenon is correct.

Regards.

[Ripper2860]

Virtualis is correct.

I would post a long discertation, but...

My is head KILLING me!!!

[ViRaL1]

Let's make one.

[Capmaster]

My dad was a project leader (Chief Engineer for the command module Central Timing Equipment) in the Apollo 11 program. His name is on a plaque on the moon right now 8)

When I was in high school, he explained that the astronauts took a precise atomic clock on their mission. Temp-controlled precisely. On the ground they had an identical, matched clock precisely synchronized to the mission clock. All the components came from the same lot, as close as they could get it for accuracy's sake.

When they returned, they saw a measurable difference in spite of the fact they were only traveling a small fraction of the speed of light. Still, they traveled faster than they ever could in an atmosphere, hence the desire for the experiment

Apparently the time change isn't a step-function, but rather is linear. As speed gets closer to light velocity, time changes 8)

Most of it went over my head because of my age, but later it started to make more sense to me. Now it seems fascinating that once again Einstein was proven correct 8)

[ViRaL1]

'the moon' good one.

[Capmaster]

'the moon' good one.

Ohhh ...kayyyyy

[ViRaL1]

Like anyone's actually been on the moon.

[Capmaster]

Like anyone's actually been on the moon.

[ZAPPER]

[the bomb]

This turned out to be a very interesting thread.

I have a question, does anybody think it would ever be possible to travel in space like we see in Star Trek?

[ViRaL1]

You mean like 'jumping' from one place to another?

[the bomb]

Yes, to be able to explore the universe first hand.

[Ripper2860]

I was once abducted by aliens and they performed a thorough examination of my reproductive organs. After the examination made them feel completely inadequate and depressed, they aborted all further testing and dropped me off in a clearing. Before exiting the craft, I took a sneak peek in their book of all knowledge contained in the universe (and the internet).

Without revealing too much, I can say that the answer is an emphatic YES.

[ZAPPER]

If mankind can not get off of this earth and learn to travel and survive in space we will soon be come extinct.

The first step is in my opinion to establish mining and mills. Yep we have to rape the cosmos too if we want to survive!

[ViRaL1]

I was once abducted by aliens and they performed a thorough examination of my reproductive organs. After the examination made them feel completely inadequate and depressed, aborthed all further testing and they dropped me off in a clearing. Beofre exiting the craft, I took a sneak peek in their book of all knowledge contained in the universe (and the internet).

Without revealing too much, I can say that the answer is an emphatic YES.

Thank god I'm not the only one.

[Shadowmistress]

I have a question also. I might understand where Doramius is coming from but haven't decided on if I agree with it.

In vitualis' example, a man travelling faster than those on earth capable of travelling will experience time dialation. Now this dialation, does it happen at the atomic level? Do the electrons circling the nucleaus of each atom actually take longer to orbit? Do they correspond to the perception of time the astronaut feels is passing or does the "speed" of atoms stay the same no matter where in the universe you are or what speed you're travelling at?

If the atoms do actually slow down then doramius is right, time does not exist, because if you could travel fast enough you could slow down each atom to the point of stopping and therefore freeze entropy and any reasonable perception of time for good.

If the atoms stay constant, (I think there was a star trek episode where they said all matter in the universe vibrates at a certain frequency) then the time dimension does exist regardless of where or how fast you are. All perceptions of time can be compared to this frequency and time dialation can be proven.

Thoughts, anyone?