PCI capture card or AGP 8X graphics card with VIVO better?

[lnong]

I want to start converting my Laserdiscs to DVD and now I'm gathering the hardware that I will need. Right now, I already have an GeForce 440MX AGP 8X graphics card that has Video-In/TV-Out. Here are its relevant features:

1)Integrated NTSC/PAL TV encoder supporting resolutions up to 1024x768.
2)DVD-ready and HDTV-ready MPEG-2 decoding up to 1920x1080i ATSC format.
3)MPEG-2 hardware decode, including Inverse Discrete Cosine Transform and Motion Compensation.
4) It has a "1-to-4 connector" for the Video-in/TV-out functionality. Basically, one end of the connector has 4 connections: S-video in, S-video out, Composite RCA in, Composite RCA out. The other end has one connection that plugs into the graphics card.

First, I want to know if it is better (in terms of video quality) to use this AGP card for capturing video from my laserdisc, or to buy a separate (and I guess more "dedicated") PCI capture card. A capture card is obviously dedicated for this task, but then isn't the AGP port more dedicated (higher data transfer rate, direct hardware access, faster) to graphics processing than an all-purpose PCI slot?

Second, if the answer to the above question is that a PCI capture card is better, then which one do you recommend I should buy. I would want to look for one that has ONLY a composite RCA video input and NO S-video input (It should NOT have any Audio input/outputs either). The reason: It's obviously cheaper and that I dont want to pay for something (S-video) that I won't want to use. Online sources say that, strangely enough, it's better to use the composite RCA output from the Laserdisc player, and NOT the S-Video output. (This is the opposite for DVD players). I wont go into the reason why that is. If you would like to know, just do a search on google.

BTW, I do not want any Audio inputs/outputs on that card either because I am probably going to buy the Audigy 2 ZS Platinum package.
(here)
This has ALL the audio inputs (optical,RCA,coaxial) I will need for my purpose. It is only missing a composite RCA input for the video.
The "Audigy 2 ZS Video Editor" product (here) has both audio and video inputs, but I can't find it anywhere online to buy!

Lastly, what is a really good video capture software to use? Some guy online said that he recommends using an app called "Fly2000" because "..this
program bypasses some of the WDM driver mechanism and makes calls to
hardware directly". Are there any other progs that access the hardware directly during video capture?

Thanks.

[thecoalman]

First, I want to know if it is better (in terms of video quality) to use this AGP card for capturing video from my laserdisc, or to buy a separate (and I guess more "dedicated") PCI capture card. A capture card is obviously dedicated for this task, but then isn't the AGP port more dedicated (higher data transfer rate, direct hardware access, faster) to graphics processing than an all-purpose PCI slot?

Nope, AGP doesn't mean anything. What matters is the capture chipset used on the card. In reality the VIVO feture is just add-on. It really has nothing to do with video card except that it uses the AGP slot. I have a Geforce 5950 eith VIVO and the capture quality is adequate if that tells you anything. Nothing wrong with giving it a try, you need to make that decision. You could look up the specs and see what other cards use that chipset to get a feel for it's worth.

Second, if the answer to the above question is that a PCI capture card is better, then which one do you recommend I should buy.

https://www.videohelp.com/capturecards.php?&orderby=Comments

IMO get a ADVC 110, 100, 55, or the 50. There all the same just in different configurations.

I would want to look for one that has ONLY a composite RCA video input and NO S-video input (It should NOT have any Audio input/outputs either). The reason: It's obviously cheaper and that I dont want to pay for something (S-video) that I won't want to use.

S-Video is common, you would probably have trouble finding one without it that was worth buying.

BTW, I do not want any Audio inputs/outputs on that card either because I am probably going to buy the Audigy 2 ZS Platinum package.
(here)
This has ALL the audio inputs (optical,RCA,coaxial) I will need for my purpose. It is only missing a composite RCA input for the video.
The "Audigy 2 ZS Video Editor" product (here) has both audio and video inputs, but I can't find it anywhere online to buy!

Again a common feature, pssssssst on most cards it just passes it off to the soundcard. Most do not have onboard sound processing. It's for all intents and purposes just a plug.

Lastly, what is a really good video capture software to use? Some guy online said that he recommends using an app called "Fly2000" because "..this
program bypasses some of the WDM driver mechanism and makes calls to
hardware directly". Are there any other progs that access the hardware directly during video capture?

Generally I use the software that came with the card since it was designed to work with it. Never heard of that program so I really can't comment.........Have Fun!

[lnong]

Thanks for the great info.

Specifically, what kind of capture chipsets do the better capture cards use? I looked at the specs for my MX440 8X card but all it says is that the card has a G4 MX440 8X GPU. Does anyone know what the G4s use for the video-in functionality?

[edDV]

I agree with thecoalman and will add the following

- the MX440 will be using the lowest acceptable level (mass market) vivo components. The Canopus ADVC series is targeted at people who know how to complain about video quality (the prosumer purists on a budget). The Canopus NTSC decoding will be vastly superior to that of the MX440. It will not be up to the level of pro dub houses however.

- laserdisc dubbing is one of the few areas where a composite cable may offer superior performance to S-Video. This is because the material on the laserdisc is NTSC and the Y/C separators used on laserdisc players (unless fairly new) are not as good as the Y/C separation on the ADVC or similar comtemporary capture cards.

- audio capture by the capture card (ADVC) assures audio to video sync. For long dubs, this can become a major problem if using audio cards for audio capture. (Hint - you can use both.)

[budz]

Get a CANOPUS ADVC-100 to do your laserdisc conversions. i've done vhs, beta and now laserdisc conversion to DVD using the ADVC-100. It's a great little unit with no audio/video sync problems. I even use it to capture from my digital cable box. Just my 2 cents.

[lnong]

Thanks for all your quick replies.

More questions....

When you talk about the audio and video being off-sync with each other, does it mean that the WHOLE audio stream is a few seconds (more or less) offset from the video stream? If this is the case, then shouldn't the video editing programs allow you to easily align the audio and video streams?

Or, you mean that this off-sync can occur many times WITHIN the stream segment? In that case, simple "shifting" of the whole audio stream relative to the video stream will not do any good...

One more thing...

What I had not mentioned in this post (but I did in another post in the "Advanced Conversion" forum) is that I am actually backing up my KARAOKE laserdiscs onto KARAOKE DVDs. The KARAOKE LDs have music-only audio on the digital PCM tracks, and the music+vocal audio on the analog tracks. This means that I have to separately capture both audio streams (most likely during different recording sessions) and well as the video stream. Then I will use some DVD-authoring software to align all those streams with each other and then burn to DVD. So the point is that I will have to deal with this off-sync/aligning issue no matter what.

[edDV]

'''
When you talk about the audio and video being off-sync with each other, does it mean that the WHOLE audio stream is a few seconds (more or less) offset from the video stream? If this is the case, then shouldn't the video editing programs allow you to easily align the audio and video streams?

Or, you mean that this off-sync can occur many times WITHIN the stream segment? In that case, simple "shifting" of the whole audio stream relative to the video stream will not do any good...

Fixing audio sync issues can be very difficult and time consuming. Lip sync is the main issue and we are talking frames or even subframes to get a match. Pro editing systems must have fractional frame audio time resolution.

Audio can drift at a slightly different speed (difficult to fix), or it can get out of sync wildly if video hits a glitch (timecode error, blank frames, bad edits ) and must resync.

If you capture audio to both (capture card + audio card) simutaneously, you can match the waveforms visually later to sync the additional audio track and then use either while editing.

What I had not mentioned in this post (but I did in another post in the "Advanced Conversion" forum) is that I am actually backing up my KARAOKE laserdiscs onto KARAOKE DVDs. The KARAOKE LDs have music-only audio on the digital PCM tracks, and the music+vocal audio on the analog tracks. This means that I have to separately capture both audio streams (most likely during different recording sessions) and well as the video stream. Then I will use some DVD-authoring software to align all those streams with each other and then burn to DVD. So the point is that I will have to deal with this off-sync/aligning issue no matter what.

OK, you may need to use a more sophisticated editing program like Premiere/Encore or Vegas/Architect to deal with the multiple audio tracks to DVD. All in a day's work for Vegas or Premiere.

You may wind up with 4 stereo tracks (8 channels) to sync if you use the audio card. These could mixed down to 2 stereo pairs for DVD authoring.

Laser disc should be a fairly continuous and stable source unless it is scratched.

[lnong]

Ok.
But now I'm a bit confused when you said I might end up with 4 stereo tracks. How is that?

Lets say I use the Canopus ADVC to convert a 15-minute movie clip. This would be the session where I capture the analog video and audio from the LD player. Would I end up with one video stream (1 file) and one audio stream (1 file)? The audio file will contain data for two channels (stereo)?

Now I go back and capture the digital audio track. Im actually gonna use the M-Audio Audiophile 2496 card (http://www.m-audio.com/products/en_us/Audiophile2496-focus.html) instead of the Audigy 2 ZS Platinum. I will be connecting the coaxial audio digital out from the LD player to the audio card's coaxial audio digital in. I probably won't capture the analog video a second time. Ok, so I should end up up with another audio stream file. This file contains digital audio information for the 2 (?) channels for the PCM tracks.

So from these calculations, I end up with only 4 channels for audio. How did you get 8?

[Biodroid]

buy a Desktop DVD Burner then pass all your collection and return back the unit if you do not wan it. Example Walmart

[lnong]

I want to copy laserdiscs. What's the use of a DVD burner? Laserdisc burners dont exists.

If you mean a standalone DVD recorder, then it wont work in my case because DVD recorder cannot create KARAOKE DVDs from KARAOKE LDs.

[edDV]

I was thinking this way

Pass 1
capture video and analog stereo audio through capture device (e.g. ADVC)
simultaneously capture analog stereo audio to audio card (capture 48kHz, 16bit).

result 1 video + 2 stereo audio in files DV**1.avi and *1.wav

Pass 2
repeat above with PCM audio

result 1 video + 2 stereo audio in files DV**2.avi and *2.wav

Now what happens next would depend on the editing program. For Premiere or Vegas (unlimited a/v tracks) for example I would do this

1. import DV**1.avi and *1.wav and move to timeline
2. sync *1.wav by visually lining up the waveforms, preview and trim until echo is gone.
3. verify sync over full timeline and fix if necessary
----------
4. import DV**2.avi and *2.wav and move to timeline
5. align video 2 to match video 1
6. split DV**2.avi audio from video, delete DV**2.avi video track
7. sync DV**2 audio by visually lining up the waveforms, preview and trim until echo is gone.
8. sync *2.wav by visually lining up the waveforms, preview and trim until echo is gone.
9. verify sync over full timeline and fix if necessary

Now we have one video and 4 stereo audio tracks (8 channels) all in sync.

next you can mute the DV audio channels if you wish, sweeten the remaining audio tracks, encode video and audio and then output 1 video and 2 stereo audio tracks to the DVD authoring stage.

or you could selectively mix the DV and Wav audio tracks.

If you were limited to a single video, 2 audio track editor, then you would bring in the desired tracks and manually phase them.

Lip sync may not be much of an issue with a Karaoke disc and simultaneous playbak of the two stereo audio tracks may not be an issue. If this is the case all this is much easier.

[lnong]

Wow! Thanks for the step by step guide. I will try to follow that when I'm ready. As you can probably tell, Im a noob and I have not worked with Premiere b4.

Also, I was planning to ask the forum this as well. Why should the audio be captured at 16-bit/48kHz even tho most card cans handle 24-bit/96kHz? Some cards even support 24-bit/192kHz. And then I notice some ppl work with 44kHz as well.