Electric underfloor heating

[Ironballs]

Does anyone here have electric underfloor heating? I'm thinking of having it installed and like some impartial advice.

Is it economic compared to sat gas central heating?
Does it deliver a good supply of heat?
is it reliable?
How much to fit
Any good UK suppliers?

I live in the UK, but any input would help me decide.

Cheers

Ironballs

[flaninacupboard]

not really what you asked, but figured i'd share. we put heating in the bathroom, just laid piping in before concreting and tiling the floor. This works really well, floor is always warm and goes a good way to heat the room. only problem is if the house is really cold and you turn the heating up high, the bathroom floor is too hot to walk on! It does however still need another radiator in the room to keep it warm.

[Cobra]

I used to go to a school that used underfloor heating. By the time a school is using it, it must be efficient. It also got a good, even heat going and the floor acted as a slow-release heater - the room didn't get too hot and waste energy. It was good.

[ZAPPER]

I don't really know all of the facts. But in general in the US anyways I beleive that electric heat is one of the most expencive. I think that natural gas is one of the cheapest. It could have alot to do with your area and needs. My other concern is access to the device for service or maintainence. If it is poured in concrete and it goes bad. how do you fix it? I would reccomend gas fired forced air any day. The components are reletively cheap and accessable and it is a proven system. Floor heating in like a bathroom or bed room where you are prone to be barefoot it is a nice luxury. There are like retro fit hot water systems that are attached to the bottom of the floor and remain accessable for service but unless you are already useing hot water there is no cost benifit from adding a second source or heat. The thermo mass of a concrete floor with embedded heat is in my opinion just hype. Think about it, the heat from the orginal source (gas or electric) has to heat the water (if it is a water system) and then has to heat the mass and then the mass has to heat the air. Too many energy transfers. Hot air has only to be heated and then blown or drifted to the space. The duct work serves for cooling also. Don't take my word I could 100% wrong for you case. It would be best for you to call some pros for estimates and search the web for real advice

[doppletwo]

Zapper you do make valid points but air is the hardest to heat of all. The heat capacity of air is very high.

Yeah if that in floor heat stops working repairs probably costs more than the original installation

[ZAPPER]

On a side note, see what is the most common in your area. There may be a good reason for it. And being that I live in the sticks I do have electric back up and a generator. But the electricity goes out not the gas. Err ah, as long as the bills are paid up. If the gas goes out you may have bigger problems than needing heat.

[thecoalman]

I don't really know all of the facts. But in general in the US anyways I beleive that electric heat is one of the most expencive. I think that natural gas is one of the cheapest. It could have alot to do with your area and needs.

Anthracite coal is the cheapest if available which because of shipping costs pertains for the most part to Eastern Pennsylavania. It's used in many of the surrounding states by a limited amount of people but still cheaper than anything else.

http://www.coaldelivery.com/faq/index.html#a3 for a quick comparison the current cost locally for 1 ton of anthracite is about $120 per ton, oil is about $1.80 per gallon. Using the chart it's $360 for oil to equal 1 ton of anthracite.

My other concern is access to the device for service or maintainence. If it is poured in concrete and it goes bad. how do you fix it?

That's true but there using plastic tubing which for the most part is maintenance free.

The thermo mass of a concrete floor with embedded heat is in my opinion just hype. Think about it, the heat from the orginal source (gas or electric) has to heat the water (if it is a water system) and then has to heat the mass and then the mass has to heat the air. Too many energy transfers. Hot air has only to be heated and then blown or drifted to the space. The duct work serves for cooling also. Don't take my word I could 100% wrong for you case. It would be best for you to call some pros for estimates and search the web for real advice

True again but once heated it maintains that heat, kind of like putting it in a bank. I guess the best analogy would be the difference bewteeen a thin stanless steel frying pan and a cast iron one. Not only that but if you have ever been in a house heated with this type of heating you would know it's completely different kind of heat. You don't have cold or warm spots. People with coal furnaces are in similar circumstances since the furnace is constantly on. The floors in my bottom floor are always warm.

The only downside is the installation costs especially if it has to be retrofitted.

[ViRaL1]

You sound like you know someone in the business.

[thecoalman]

You sound like you know someone in the business.

Just the coal not the plumbing, but it carries over. My cousin just put one of those systems in the basment of his new house and it's outstanding.

[gmatov]

How about hot water heat?

Boilers are relatively inexpensive, considering they will last WAY longer than a forced air furnace, fin tube baseboard is actually cheap, you can install what a heating contractor would consider overkill for not too much more, and hot water is about the most level heat you will ever find.

If you can solder, you can do it yourself, and you can use it to run the radiant heat, or whatever you call the infloor heat you are speaking of, rather than electric elements. And too, you can use "zone valves" and a thermostat in the bathroom to control the heat in the bathroom, and not get the hotspots referred to in one of the posts above.

120 a ton for hard coal? Dleivered and shoveled in, I presume? What the hell is bituminous going for, these days?

I think I can remember 9 or 10 bucks, when I was a kid?

I guess you're from Scranton area, hey Coalman? Land of Dan Flood.

Cheers,

George

[thecoalman]

120 a ton for hard coal? Dleivered and shoveled in, I presume?

Delivered yes but I dont shovel it in...... I hardly ever touch a shovel except for when I'm loading and that's just to level the load.

What the hell is bituminous going for, these days?

I wouldn't know, probably half that or less I would bet, depends on the grade.

I think I can remember 9 or 10 bucks, when I was a kid?

How's 25 cents a ton grab you.... http://www.coaldelivery.com/gallery/misc/pic007.html

I guess you're from Scranton area, hey Coalman? Land of Dan Flood.

Closer to Wilkes-Barre, Dan Flood is a little past my time but I know who he was.

[hech54]

I was also under the impression that most radiant heat(under the flooring) was based on water...not electricity....

[beavereater]

We have heated flooring here in Japan, heated carpets for the people who can't afford the heated flooring. Depending on who installs it here, will get you different monthly rates (Basically if it's cheap, then the electricity per minute that it uses goes up) Anyway, it's nice!!

[ZAPPER]

Ironballs:
After the Coalman shot me out of the saddle I did a quick websearch for "Electric underfloor heating" There is alot of info out there about it. The thing that I noticed right off the bat was that about the first handfull of hits were from UK sites. Sorry that I didn't post any links but I didn't find like an educational site, just the average sales type pages. I don't know what the electric rates are over there but I am guessing that if you don't have somekind of government subsidy heating may be high.

[thecoalman]

http://www.hearth.com/fuelcalc/findoil.html Will give you a realistic comparison if you know the efficiency rating. It's based on dollars but I don't see what it wouldn't work with any currency.

[vitualis]

As a point of note, how "warm" a room feels is more a function of the amount of radiant heat rather than the temperature of the air. Heating the floor (and hence the concrete releasing radiant energy) IS an effective method.

Consider the following situations:
Compare the "warmth" you get when just resting on the beach or on some grass when it is sunny versus shade. It feels MUCH warmer any time it is sunny, even for a moment. This is from the radiant energy. The air temperature around you barely changes.

Regards.

[flaninacupboard]

My other concern is access to the device for service or maintainence. If it is poured in concrete and it goes bad. how do you fix it?

That's true but there using plastic tubing which for the most part is maintenance free.

Not likely, we use copper piping for heating/water supply over here. all the joints had compression fittings, been in for over a year without a problem.

[thecoalman]

Not likely, we use copper piping for heating/water supply over here. all the joints had compression fittings, been in for over a year without a problem.

Copper is used here for the most part for heating and supply too, plastic is used for supply sometimes.

For applications such as this though they use plastic tubing almost exclusively, there is no joints to leak. They lay out the entire floor with a single tube. The possibility of leaking would be a concern for me if your going to encase joints in concrete.

[Ironballs]

Thanks people. I'll take everything on board and have a mull over it all.

My situation is this, I live in a flat which has conventional central heating. Over 5 years it has been nothing but hell, boiler breakdowns, leaks which don't go down well with my neighbour below.

Now to replace the system means a complete redecorate, so I'm a bit loathed to do it.

Fortunatly, I may be moving in the next few weeks and the new place I'm buying is also a flat in need of serious renovation. I don't want to ahve the same problems I've had here and was considering electric underfloor heating. the type which is like an electric blanket that can be fitted under a carpet or wooden floor.

Because I get so much ear bashing from my girfriend, she really likes to be hot, I wanted to make sure electric heating is a viable option.

Cheers everyone, and anymore adive appriciated.

Coalman, were you suggesting I have a coal fire in my flat! It would be nice and warm, but a bit impractical!

[thecoalman]

Coalman, were you suggesting I have a coal fire in my flat! It would be nice and warm, but a bit impractical!

Sure why not I can FedEX it to you in 40 lb bags, you can then rightfully claim to have the most expensive coal heat in the world. :P Probably be about $1000 per ton after all is said and done. You'll probably need about 5 or 6 tons per year.

[Ironballs]

Ha,
When I was a student, we lived next to a coal yard. "Free" coal curtosey of midnight runs kept us snug and warm!

[thecoalman]

That's not anyhting like the coal I have though. But if it was "free"..... 60 or 70 years ago that would have gotten you shot around here, they even used to beat the shit out of people picking at the refuse piles.

[Guest]

my parents installed this warm water tubing system under a fieldstone floor.Greatest system I've seen.A small heater,size of a circut box heats and circulates the water at 99 degrees. It takes the room several days to warm up but once warm it is the most even heat you will experience.I guess it is realatively cheaper than conventional methods.

[thecoalman]

The most economical way is to combine it with a geo thermal heat pump..... Heat in the winter and cool in the summer. Cost next to nothing to run but a fortune to install. Plus you need additional heat for really cold days if you live in a colder climate. Will pay for itself in about 10 years, it's all gravy after that.

[Guest]

It is expensive to install.