Myth regarding burning at slow speeds?

[Cobra281]

i'm sure you guys have heard of this before, and i'm serious when i ask this because i need a straight answer... is it true its better to burn a music CD at a slower speed, so that if the cd gets scratched, chances of it playing properly are better than if it was burned faster? does the same hold true for data discs? how about dvd-r's? thanks in advance.

[Faustus]

I don't know about scrached, but when your talking about cheap CDs and cheap burners and trying to play music sometimes things are not right.

Often ifyou burn as slow as possible it helps.

Example: My mom bought some Great Quality blank CDs to use with her LiteOn burner I got for her. Nothing would play in her car. I have her burn at 8x and it works great now.

[Cobra]

Technically, it should make no difference provided the media is up to it. I sometimes found that music CDs had glitches on them if I burned them at 52x, but my Pioneer burner only supports 16x so I don't have a problem any more.

I don't think burning speed has any bearing on scratch-error-resistance - how could it? If the data has been written and verified, what does it matter that it was 1x or 52x? Maybe if the "pits" created at 52x were weaker, but I don't think that is the case.

[Italic]

In my experience I didn't find (for CDs) any different result between the high speed writing and low speed writing.
For DVDs, 3 months ago, I wasn't able to write the Datawrite ID Fujifilm03 at 8x (every try was a coaster) and at 4x I burnt them and checked without errors. But in that case the write strategy spped was only 4x !

[piano632]

Yes, it's true. The higher the burning speed, the less accurately the pits/lands are formed in the dye. This is just common sense to me, but obviously some people just don't see it. With audio CDs it is especially important since they have less error correction and upon playback malformed pits/lands translates into more jitter the player has to attempt to correct. With audio CDs, I can hear the difference between those burned at 1x-2x and those burned at 4x-up.

Here is a quote from Mobile Fidelity Sound Lab (an audiophile record label):
Mobile Fidelity Sound Lab has chosen to offer only slower speed (1-12X) CD-Rs. Although the current trend is “faster is better,” MFSL engineers strongly disagree and urge audio professionals, archivists, audiophiles, and discriminating collectors alike to burn their data in real time, better known as 1X. Through a careful battery of tests conducted at Mobile Fidelity Sound Lab, we have observed that real-time burning has always yielded superior results. Higher burning rates cause errors and do not allow for proper pit formation. Furthermore, higher speeds cause vibration in the drive when burning the disc, thereby increasing jitter.

[Cobra281]

Yes, it's true. The higher the burning speed, the less accurately the pits/lands are formed in the dye. This is just common sense to me, but obviously some people just don't see it. With audio CDs it is especially important since they have less error correction and upon playback malformed pits/lands translates into more jitter the player has to attempt to correct. With audio CDs, I can hear the difference between those burned at 1x-2x and those burned at 4x-up.

Here is a quote from Mobile Fidelity Sound Lab (an audiophile record label):
Mobile Fidelity Sound Lab has chosen to offer only slower speed (1-12X) CD-Rs. Although the current trend is “faster is better,” MFSL engineers strongly disagree and urge audio professionals, archivists, audiophiles, and discriminating collectors alike to burn their data in real time, better known as 1X. Through a careful battery of tests conducted at Mobile Fidelity Sound Lab, we have observed that real-time burning has always yielded superior results. Higher burning rates cause errors and do not allow for proper pit formation. Furthermore, higher speeds cause vibration in the drive when burning the disc, thereby increasing jitter.

very interesting, the reasons mentioned were why i thought this myth may be true, i just didn't know how to explain the less accurate forming of pits\lands in the dye. what do the rest of you non-believers think of this now? i wish we could see a confirmed comparison\test to answer this indefinitely.

[vitualis]

This is not entirely true.

Most CD burners will burn with the least amount of jitter at a particular speed. The last time I looked at this issue, it usually wasn't the slowest (i.e., 1x) burn speed but it also wasn't the top speed either. The burners tested then (? 24x burners) seemed to do best around 4x and 8x.

I usually still consider this to be an optimal burning speed.

Some burners (e.g., some the the later Yamaha models) came wil special audio burning modes that burnt the disc with longer pits (or something like that). In this mode, audio jitter was minimalised but it also slight reduced the capacity of a CD.

Regards.

[Jester700]

This is not entirely true.

Most CD burners will burn with the least amount of jitter at a particular speed. The last time I looked at this issue, it usually wasn't the slowest (i.e., 1x) burn speed but it also wasn't the top speed either. The burners tested then (? 24x burners) seemed to do best around 4x and 8x.

I usually still consider this to be an optimal burning speed.

Some burners (e.g., some the the later Yamaha models) came wil special audio burning modes that burnt the disc with longer pits (or something like that). In this mode, audio jitter was minimalised but it also slight reduced the capacity of a CD.

Regards.

I'm with you. Also, new media that's designed to burn at up to 56x speed will NOT do well at 2x or 4x. The dye is designed to be burned faster, with a more powerful laser. "slower is better" may sound logical as a simple mantra, but like most simple solutions, it's missing pieces.

[888888]

On my burner, I have found that 24x is too fast to burn CD-Rs reliably. I usually burn at 16x and don't have too many problems.

However, sometimes, even slower burning speeds won't help. In this case, the problem could be your software or system.

[HatchetMan]

I found this at slysoft.com

Back in the early 90's the Redbook standard recommended to burn music CDs at 1x speed. However, back then the writers were only capable of burning 1x/2x and had no burn proof functions at all.

The firmware of modern drives doesn't allow such slow speeds anymore. 4x is the least you can expect from your drives. A software cannot override these firmware settings.

[HatchetMan]

I'm with you. Also, new media that's designed to burn at up to 56x speed will NOT do well at 2x or 4x. The dye is designed to be burned faster, with a more powerful laser. "slower is better" may sound logical as a simple mantra, but like most simple solutions, it's missing pieces.

What about when converting MP3's into audio CD's???

[Cobra281]

I found this at slysoft.com

Back in the early 90's the Redbook standard recommended to burn music CDs at 1x speed. However, back then the writers were only capable of burning 1x/2x and had no burn proof functions at all.

The firmware of modern drives doesn't allow such slow speeds anymore. 4x is the least you can expect from your drives. A software cannot override these firmware settings.

yup, 4x is the slowest you can burn with most burners. i was also wondering about when burning audio cd's from mp3's on your hard drive.

[Heywould3]

For DVD burners burning to slow is actually harmful in some cases.. mostly sub standard media... the problem is that it burns to long in one spot and if the dye is thin in an area you actually get more errors then if you burnt a bit faster.. IE 1X might be to slow 2.4 iffy but 4x is prolly where youll get the best burn.. all depending on media and quality of burner..but this hasnt really been the case for CDR i burn CDRs at fastest speed possible while multi tasking every time now and havent had a coaster in for ever..

P.S. there is a program out there that will alow you to slow.. i think its in nero.. driver speed or something.. i dont use it but never had to either..

[Jester700]

I'm with you. Also, new media that's designed to burn at up to 56x speed will NOT do well at 2x or 4x. The dye is designed to be burned faster, with a more powerful laser. "slower is better" may sound logical as a simple mantra, but like most simple solutions, it's missing pieces.

What about when converting MP3's into audio CD's???

The source doesn't matter. It's all about the best speed for a particular combination of burner & media. That "sweet spot" for each combination will give the lowest error rate no matter whether it's an excel file or audio CD. Now, as someone said above, audio CDs have less error correction built in, so high errors there can show up more quickly.

At one time, 1x was recommended, then 2x, and so on. The last time I looked into it, some very sharp people were recommending 8x, but I don't know what media or hardware they were using. Since ALL high speed burners start their burn at around 16x when they're set to burn at any speed between 16x and 54x, I figure that's a pretty good "all around" number that's as close to universal as you can get. So for audio discs using typical "1x-54x" media that's where I stay.

Now, for those "audio blanks" designed to work in set-top recorders, stay as low as possible. Those are MADE to work in real time (1x).