WTF is wrong with this world(revisited)?

[hech54]

A doctor's prescription is just that....it was prescribed BY A DOCTOR. Give out the fvcking pills and shut the fvck up.
DAMN....where is there room for debate here?


For a year, Julee Lacey stopped in a CVS pharmacy near her home in a Fort Worth suburb to get refills of her birth-control pills. Then one day last March, the pharmacist refused to fill Lacey's prescription because she did not believe in birth control.

"I was shocked," says Lacey, 33, who was not able to get her prescription until the next day and missed taking one of her pills. "Their job is not to regulate what people take or do. It's just to fill the prescription that was ordered by my physician."


Some pharmacists, however, disagree and refuse on moral grounds to fill prescriptions for contraceptives. And states from Rhode Island to Washington have proposed laws that would protect such decisions.


Mississippi enacted a sweeping statute that went into effect in July that allows health care providers, including pharmacists, to not participate in procedures that go against their conscience. South Dakota and Arkansas already had laws that protect a pharmacist's right to refuse to dispense medicines. Ten other states considered similar bills this year.


The American Pharmacists Association, with 50,000 members, has a policy that says druggists can refuse to fill prescriptions if they object on moral grounds, but they must make arrangements so a patient can still get the pills. Yet some pharmacists have refused to hand the prescription to another druggist to fill.


In Madison, Wis., a pharmacist faces possible disciplinary action by the state pharmacy board for refusing to transfer a woman's prescription for birth-control pills to another druggist or to give the slip back to her. He would not refill it because of his religious views.


Some advocates for women's reproductive rights are worried that such actions by pharmacists and legislatures are gaining momentum.


The U.S. House of Representatives passed a provision in September that would block federal funds from local, state and federal authorities if they make health care workers perform, pay for or make referrals for abortions.


"We have always understood that the battles about abortion were just the tip of a larger ideological iceberg, and that it's really birth control that they're after also," says Gloria Feldt, president of Planned Parenthood (news - web sites) Federation of America.


"The explosion in the number of legislative initiatives and the number of individuals who are just saying, 'We're not going to fill that prescription for you because we don't believe in it' is astonishing," she said.


Pharmacists have moved to the front of the debate because of such drugs as the "morning-after" pill, which is emergency contraception that can prevent fertilization if taken within 120 hours of unprotected intercourse.


While some pharmacists cite religious reasons for opposing birth control, others believe life begins with fertilization and see hormonal contraceptives, and the morning-after pill in particular, as capable of causing an abortion.


"I refuse to dispense a drug with a significant mechanism to stop human life," says Karen Brauer, president of the 1,500-member Pharmacists for Life International. Brauer was fired in 1996 after she refused to refill a prescription for birth-control pills at a Kmart in the Cincinnati suburb of Delhi Township.


Lacey, of North Richland Hills, Texas, filed a complaint with the Texas Board of Pharmacy after her prescription was refused in March. In February, another Texas pharmacist at an Eckerd drug store in Denton wouldn't give contraceptives to a woman who was said to be a rape victim.


In the Madison case, pharmacist Neil Noesen, 30, after refusing to refill a birth-control prescription, did not transfer it to another pharmacist or return it to the woman. She was able to get her prescription refilled two days later at the same pharmacy, but she missed a pill because of the delay.


She filed a complaint after the incident occurred in the summer of 2002 in Menomonie, Wis. Christopher Klein, spokesman for Wisconsin's Department of Regulation and Licensing, says the issue is that Noesen didn't transfer or return the prescription. A hearing was held in October. The most severe punishment would be revoking Noesen's pharmacist license, but Klein says that is unlikely.


Susan Winckler, spokeswoman and staff counsel for the American Pharmacists Association, says it is rare that pharmacists refuse to fill a prescription for moral reasons. She says it is even less common for a pharmacist to refuse to provide a referral.


"The reality is every one of those instances is one too many," Winckler says. "Our policy supports stepping away but not obstructing."

In the 1970s, because of abortion and sterilization, some states adopted refusal clauses to allow certain health care professionals to opt out of providing those services. The issue re-emerged in the 1990s, says Adam Sonfield of the Alan Guttmacher Institute, which researches reproductive issues.

Sonfield says medical workers, insurers and employers increasingly want the right to refuse certain services because of medical developments, such as the "morning-after" pill, embryonic stem-cell research and assisted suicide.

"The more health care items you have that people feel are controversial, some people are going to object and want to opt out of being a part of that," he says.

In Wisconsin, a petition drive is underway to revive a proposed law that would protect pharmacists who refuse to prescribe drugs they believe could cause an abortion or be used for assisted suicide.

"It just recognizes that pharmacists should not be forced to choose between their consciences and their livelihoods," says Matt Sande of Pro-Life Wisconsin. "They should not be compelled to become parties to abortion."

http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/usatoday/20041109/pl_usatoday/druggistsrefusetogiveoutpill

[Capmaster]

Pharmacists aren't being paid to make value judgments. They're order fillers, same as someone who works at McDonald's, only with more schooling, higher pay, and a more controlled product. But order-fillers they are.

Someone comes in and order three Big Macs and supersized fries, it's not their place to refuse service because they don't agree with the food choice.

The pharmacist is out of line for refusing, and ought to be fired or at least disciplined for being derelict in his duties. Their personal beliefs should stay home once they put on their white smock with name tag

If they feel that strongly about birth control. let 'em throw up a blog :P

[glockjs]

read the first part of it to get the jist of it. all i gotta say is mexican rx online anybody??? screw the overprice us medical system anyways. that is jacked up though. pharmacists arent doctors so in no way should they have a right to make that decision.

[hech54]

I love this part too:

"I refuse to dispense a drug with a significant mechanism to stop human life," says Karen Brauer, president of the 1,500-member Pharmacists for Life International. Brauer was fired in 1996 after she refused to refill a prescription for birth-control pills at a Kmart in the Cincinnati suburb of Delhi Township.

One down....1499 more to go.
FIRE ALL OF THEM.

[Cobra]

I agree completely. Their job is to dispense medicine, and if they fail to do so they should suffer the same consequences everyone else would. They should be thrown out on their arse.

If they refused to give me medicine, there would be hell to pay. I don't give a damn about their beliefs - it is their beliefs that are causing the problem and they will not force them onto me.

If they don't like what they'll have to do, why are they in that job?

The world is becoming too soft when it comes to issues like this.

I'm in a bad mood today!

[SLK001]

Birth control pills have uses other than birth control. What's next - someone refusing to dispense cancer drugs because 'they interfer with God's will'?

[Cobra]

Uh-oh! Danger of this thread turning religious! Don't do it!

[hech54]

This thread will be locked by morning but I'm sorry....this REALLY pisses me off. I knew starting this thread that it might go the wrong way.
Sorry in advance if it does.

[CoasterCreator]

this is what I would do ..I would say thank you request for the RX back ....hopefully they will give it back for me ....ask to speak to a sup and let them know ..they have lost my and my families bussiness


then I would walk into the nearest thrifty / sav-on or wallgreen and get my fix ....or maybe down south ( south of the border) a few margaritas
and RX for 1/3 of the price ......

[Doramius]

I agree a pharmacist should just do his/her job and fill the prescription, but there are some drug stores that are privately owned and operated and the store itself has every right to refuse sale for whatever reason, but they are REQUIRED to find a different store or pharmacist that will fill the order that day. They can be taken to court for refusing a prescribed drug and not offering the ability to obtain it somewhere else. This is because some drugs do more than the primary intended use. Many birth control items also are used to prevent acne and some even used by men. I can't remember the article or the drug, but there was a person who had to take a certain narcotic drug that thins the blood. The drug was prescribed to the patient. The pharmacist refused to fill the prescription and did not help the person find another place because he felt narcotic use was immoral. The patient died 3 days later and the pharmacist was sued by the family because he could have prevented the death by either filling the prescription or refering the guy to another pharmacist.

I may not be getting the whole story right, but the gist is there. it was back in 1997 or 1998.

[fritzi93]

It makes one wonder where in the world these people received their training. I'm no pharmacist, but off the top of my head I can come up with two practical objections:

1) Birth control pills have commonly been prescribed to alleviate menstrual discomfort due to hormonal imbalance, for instance. (Note that it is not a cure, it only treats symptoms. However, a great proportion of all medicines prescribed fall into that category.)

2) Birth control may be indicated if a woman is undergoing a course of treatment that increases risks for birth defects. Ever pay attention to adverts for various medicines? They state plainly what the possible "side effects are, and that one comes up often . Also, any of you here old enough to remember thalidomide?

To me, such objections are conclusive. I'll leave the philosophising to others.

[888888]

Holy crap. I was gonna post the same thread at politick.org today but I guess you beat me to the debate. Anyway, I totally agree with you and personally find it sickening. </POLITICS>

[tgpo]

But married couples also use birth control. Do they turn them down to?

[lordsmurf]

This is an old story. I think that jerk was fired. And rightly so. Agreed. If you disagree with it, find a new job. One pharmacist was on tv quoting "a-la" and religious texts, as an excuse to not perform his job.

[vitualis]

I can't believe something like this could even happen in a what is supposed to be a secular society...

Pharmacists are not medically trained and if they have questions about the accuracy of the script, then they should contact the doctor who wrote it IMMEDIATELY. If they have some "moral" objection to the script, then they have a duty of care to ensure that the patient can get their script filled somewhere else in a reasonable amount of time (and anything more than a day would not be reasonable).

Imposing your own moralistic judgements on other people in this way is nothing short of religious discrimination and should never be tolerated. Simply put, you can cannot perform your societal duty because of personal beliefs, then you shouldn't be in that job.

Regards.

[ViRaL1]

DEATH TO STUPID PEOPLE!!!!

They should be fired. They should have their licenses up for review. Beyond that I won't drag this into lock-worthy territory.

[Conquest10]

The US is turning less and less secular these days. Especially as the national anthem these days seems to be "God Bless America".

[ViRaL1]

'...and no place else.'

[Ripper2860]

The US is turning less and less secular these days. Especially as the national anthem these days seems to be "God Bless America".

Much better song anyway and definitely easier on the vocal chords.

The further we stray from the principles upon which this country was founded -- the more fucked up this country becomes. The list of what is wrong is far too long and this would not be the right place to air them.

[ViRaL1]

THERE AIN'T NOTHIN WRONG WITH THIS COUNTRY YOU TREE HUGGIN COMMIE BASTARD, GO BACK TO CANADA!!!

[Ripper2860]

THERE AIN'T NOTHIN WRONG WITH THIS COUNTRY YOU TREE HUGGIN COMMIE BASTARD, GO BACK TO CANADA!!!

The US is one of the greatest countries -- even with all of its' problems. I wouldn't trade it for any other. To say that there are no problems would be to stick one's head in the sand.

The problems are too long to list and the reasons I believe they exist are way too political and religious to even begin to divulge; however -- the things that are great are insurmountably larger than that of what is wrong. It does not stop me from wanting to fix them, though.

If you are referring to me -- I was born in the US and have always lived here. My parents are from Cuba and thank God every day that they are in the US.

[ViRaL1]

Nothing to defend. That's just my twisted sense of humor (partially influenced by Red Meat :P ), and I actually knew about the Cuban thing. I agree with you on both sides though. People try so hard to force their own personal (or group) belief system on everyone else in spite of the fact that the exact opposite is one of the main reasons we're here and separate. The day I witness someone living what I deem to be the perfect life is the day I start considering modeling my life after someone. Until then I'm just here to live life, enjoy it and create as few charred corpses in my wake as necessary.

[jimmalenko]

unbelievable.

They'd better not sell any vitamin supplements either, because this form of "manufactured" body health was not god's way either.

hypocrites.

If you have moral conflicts which prevent you from doing your job properly, get the F**k outta there

[northcat_8]

Now boys....you most certainly wouldn't want someone to do something that they found difficult, unexceptable, they were morally opposed to, or found to offensive at a personal level would you?

For God's sake, you can't expect a pharmacist to do his job properly if it interferes with his own person belief system.

I'm sorry but that is the world that all you "sensitive" people are raising. I call it the puss-i-fication of America. A bunch of bleeding hearts got their sensitivities together and decided to have kids. It started in the 80's and has continued to get worse, before long we will all be walking around in white robes and behaving like the society in Demolition Man. "Be well John Spartan"

See what political correctness has brought us to. Jesus, we wouldn't want to offend a black guy by saying he's black, so we say "African American", so I'm white, I go to live in Africa...does that make me an "American African"? No because people over there don't give a ****, they aren't offended, they have more pressing issues, like running from Lions and catching supper to get hung up on such meaningless bullshit like what ethnic group of people I belong to. Last time I saw the discovery channel, the lion don't give **** black or white guy, supper is supper.

I know this much, if Captain Jackass would not have filled my wife's perscription he would have had bigger problems than bad publicity and losing his ******* job. Get it straight, I have bail money and I'm not afraid to use it

I'm with Jimmy and Viral1 - all you suburban soccer mom, bleeding heart, sensitive mother fuckers need to get the **** out, or at least congregate in one state so the rest of us know where you are and we don't have to deal with you.

[Capmaster]

I'm with Jimmy and Viral1 - all you suburban soccer mom, bleeding heart, sensitive mother fuckers need to get the **** out, or at least congregate in one state so the rest of us know where you are and we don't have to deal with you.

It makes targeting easier too ...fewer coordinates to enter

[smearbrick1]

This goes well with those Christian Scientists groups... you know... the ones that won't allow their children to be innoculated at birth. Meanwhile, 6 months later, the kid dies from Scarlet Fever, or Whooping Cough... or a good ole' fashion case of small pox. Even is he/she does live through those first six months.... Hello Polio...

Kid: Mom, why is my leg skinnier than the others.

Mom: Because you are special. You have a rare and totally curable disease called polio. It has been all but erradicated, but your father and I decided that we didn't want to go against our belief concerning God's will... so we opted to not have you innoculated against it. Now don't you feel special?

[Capmaster]

No religion please

[Doramius]

I agree with Cap. Careful with religion. Not all believe the same thing. Odd as it sounds, it is true.

I will say people who claim it as act outside of natural or God's will are just brainwashing themselves. Hello, Where is penicillin from?

My personal though is as many have stated earlier, "If you can't do your job in it's entirety do to morals, you shouldn't be doing that job." However, you can't impose on a person to do something he/she doesn't want to do because it is against their belief. That person must show immediate referral to someone who can help. If they do not then they would be contradicting a moral belief anyway. It's a catch 22. If you don't want to do it, you must find someone who will, otherwise you're a worse person than the offender. You're forcing your belief on them, rather than them forcing a belief on you for filling a prescription. That's just wrong.

[gmatov]

I'm kinda with Northcat on this.

I give you my scrip, you either fill it or you give it back, with your excuse. (I'm a holy roller, I won't fill it because GW says no.)

Then I bust you in the mouth and ask for the scrip back, again. No,a nd I come over the counter. (Well, at my age, maybe come around the counter.) You get my meaning.

Fritzi, where the hell you been?

I do, indeed, remember Thalidomide, God's, or the pharmaceutical industry's gift to pregnant women. Thank God, they were spared most of the effects of morning sickness. Too bad they had to find the result of their relief wasa thousands of babies with flippers instead of arms and legs. I think the bulk was in Britain, in that case.

Maybe why new drugs are tested more thoroughly overseas than they are here. Too much money to be made by getting to market first, we'll test later. Redux, Vioxx, etc.

As an aside, the US media keeps harping on the rest of the world refusing to pay asking price, so getting drugs for anywhere from a tenth to maybe a quarter of the us price, therefore costing the US consumer millions, nay, billions .

If I offer you something at 100 bucks, and you say, no, I'll give you 5, and I say, OK, I'll just make it up on the next guy (the US consumer ) are we getting fucked? (I don't buy drugs, so I ain't gettin' fucked like those who need the stuff I probably will in a few years)

They sell a billion pills in 190 countries at a dime apiece, sell a million in the US at 10 bucks each, report a huge profit that quarter. Are WE getting fucked or no?

Cheers,

George

[budz]

They sell a billion pills in 190 countries at a dime apiece, sell a million in the US at 10 bucks each, report a huge profit that quarter. Are WE getting fucked or no?

I agree that if a prescription won't be filled because of a pharmacist's moral standards then give me back the prescription and I will take my business elsewhere.

Yup we're getting fucked! In my opinion the medical field today are only interested in making the fast buck and forget about the patients. Look at how the Bush Administration is preventing the USA from getting medication from Canada. Why? Because it's the pharmaceutical companies that are pocketing the big bucks and the Bushwacked administration is behind the FDA so they won't approve medication coming in from Canada or any other country. Why? Because those Bushwackers are making money themselves. Sorry didn't mean to get political but that is the truth. It's all about MONEY and forget the people.

I had a pharmacist ask me why I was taking a particular allergy medication. When I replied to her, "Because that's what the doctor prescribed"! She then began to tell me shit which confused me. I then had to contact my doctor to figure out if I could take the damn medication. The doctor responded to me, " what the hell is the pharmacist trying to do become a store operated doctor"! I never went back to that pharmacy which is known for pharmacists that can't make the grade go to work there.