Images in Photoshop are darker than other apps

[sync]

When I bring an image into Photoshop it looks too dark. It looks ok in ImageReady.

[lordsmurf]

Could be embedded profiles.

[sync]

I have PS set up to warn about embedded profiles. This happens with all images.

[Josef K]

Open the image in both Photoshop and ImageReady.

Make sure PS uses the embedded profile and, in IR:

View->Preview->Use Embedded Colour Profile

and compare the image side by side. Do they still look different?

[sync]

I just remembered that my previous monitor was profiled and this one isn't. Now I'm using a generic profile for my new monitor. I wonder if that could be the problem.

[Josef K]

I just remembered that my previous monitor was profiled and this one isn't. Now I'm using a generic profile for my new monitor. I wonder if that could be the problem.

That would only really affect print output since you can't accurately colour match using an non-calibrated monitor. You could calibrate but the images would still look different on screen if they are not using the same profile in each app.

[sync]

Yes, that makes sense. There must be some setting in PS that is making the images look too dark.

[Josef K]

I would still calibrate the monitor, though this is an art form in itself. Did you compare the same image in PS And IR as I mention above? I'd be interested in the outcome.

[sync]

I missed your first post.

The image doesn't have an embedded profile. When I load it in PS I chose to leave as is and not color manage.

[Josef K]

The image doesn't have an embedded profile. When I load it in PS I chose to leave as is and not color manage.

Alright, try saving it out (make sure you put it somewhere like a root of a drive so you can find and delete it easily later) after Image->Mode->Assign Profile and use something like Adobe RGB (1998). Now go into Explorer and make a copy of it (I'll explain why later).

Open PS and drag/drop the first test file onto it. Use the embedded profile.

Open IR and do the same with the copy of the first test file. Go to View->Preview->Use Embedded Colour Profile.

If you'd drag/dropped the same file onto first PS then IR, the one in PS would have closed itself automatically and vice versa ad infinitum. This = lots of fun to try on newbies. :P

Now try as I suggest and see if they still look different side by side.

[sync]

They look the same. What does this show, apart from the fact that you can embed a profile with the darker version?

[Josef K]

Profiles are created for colour matching on screen to printed output. Because you chose not to colour manage when you loaded the image in PS, you overrode its colour matching capabilities and therefore explains why your image was different to the same image in IR as you first asked.

That was your original question. Problem solved, heh!

[sync]

But the dark version is not correct. It's a still from a tv capture and it only looks that dark in PS.

I suspect that my monitor profile is using an inappropriate gamma and PS is the only app that uses the profile. I'm unable to remove the profile.

[Josef K]

It's a still from a tv capture and it only looks that dark in PS.

PS is probably the only imaging app you're using that properly interprets colour spaces correctly.

I suspect that my monitor profile is using an inappropriate gamma and PS is the only app that uses the profile. I'm unable to remove the profile.

Calibrate your monitor as best you can. Remember to set the lighting to something like it usually is: if you mostly work in a dark room, make the room as dark as you normally work in. If you usually work in a light room, make it resemble that. Wear something dark on top while you're at it. You might as well make the calibration as accurate as possible if you don't have the (expensive) calibration equipment.

You can remove the profile. After you've calibrated, go to Assign Profile and select the 'Don't Colour Manage This Document' option then save. Then you can adjust brightness/contrast, etc. until it looks just about right for you. It won't match exactly when it's printed and it won't match on a DVD menu, either. Like I said before, colour matching and calibration are an art form. Only experimentation and a lot of errors will lead you a step in the right direction. You'd have to assign the profile PAL/SECAM or NTSC (1953) to describe the colour spaces of your destination. You'd still need your monitor calibrated. It's the same principle as colour matching to printed output, only this time it's a TV standard output.

If you meant 'remove the profile' as in the one in Windows Display Applet, then you just need to add another one and set it as default. You can then remove the old one if you want to but you don't need to if you have selected the new one as default.

By the way, why did you open the image in IR anyway? Are you thinking of using the same image in a web page?

[sync]

I'm using the digital input to my LCD monitor, so there's very little that can be done in the way of calibration. At least, that's my understanding.

I took a look at some photos that I edited in PS when my old monitor was calibrated and profiled. They look right in other apps but not in PS.

I added the AdobeRGB1998 profile and made it the default. Now the photo looks right in Photoshop.

For some reason, it won't let me remove the other profile, but that's ok.

By the way, why did you open the image in IR anyway?

When I'm doing minor tweaks I like that the IR document window has opimization tabs and I can quickly 'Save Optimized' instead of scrolling through the various file formats in 'Save as'.

[Josef K]

I'm using the digital input to my LCD monitor, so there's very little that can be done in the way of calibration. At least, that's my understanding.

I don't own an LCD monitor other than my laptop and that's way too old to even run PS. From my understanding I see that LCDs are not best at correctly reproducing colours. For example, black isn't 'true' black in the same way that black on a CRT is closer to it. Maybe this isn't a problem depending on your budget. Also you have the issue of dead pixels which are more of an annoyance than anything else.

I added the AdobeRGB1998 profile and made it the default. Now the photo looks right in Photoshop.

A step in the right direction, then... Adobe worked hard on creating that profile and it's no fluke that even now, six years later, it's still included in the latest version of Photoshop.

When I'm doing minor tweaks I like that the IR document window has opimization tabs and I can quickly 'Save Optimized' instead of scrolling through the various file formats in 'Save as'.

Ah... I wondered because IR optimises for the web and has a particular colour palette. This depends on your settings, of course. Remember that the browser safe palette has only 216 colours so you'll lose a lot of definition, particularly in gradients. This is slightly comparable to NTSC where you have to compensate and make sure the menus are 'NTSC safe'. Feel free to play around though - only way to learn...

Also remember that once you begin using snapshots in PS you'll never look back. Maybe you don't use them at the moment - I don't know. I'd recommend it, though, since it means you can just save and revert to an earlier snapshot and undo the save. Snapshots are like a backup undo in case you really make a mess of things. Cool stuff... 8)

[sync]

A step in the right direction, then... Adobe worked hard on creating that profile and it's no fluke that even now, six years later, it's still included in the latest version of Photoshop.

I was referring to the monitor profile in Windows, not the PS profile.

Back when I was doing more photo editing I only used PS. I guess the main reason I started using IR is because of the issue of how PS was displaying the images. There probably isn't any good reason to continue using IR.

[edDV]

If it hasn't been mentioned, start with a calibrated monitor. Calibrating monitor for printer or TV output differs substantially.

[sync]

How do you calibrate a monitor for tv output?

[Josef K]

I was referring to the monitor profile in Windows, not the PS profile.

Which profile did you apply, if you added a new one?

Back when I was doing more photo editing I only used PS. I guess the main reason I started using IR is because of the issue of how PS was displaying the images. There probably isn't any good reason to continue using IR.

PS = images primarily for print and video...
IR = images primarily for the web...

Sometimes I have to think to myself whether or not I really want to load up PS just to make a slight tweak on something. I might want to remove a tiny white speck on an otherwise dark surround and I think 'oh... I'll just heal brush that or clone'. Then I remember how many plugins I have installed and it makes me think twice. It's no coincidence that I have my plugins installed on my fastest hard drive on the front partition. Even then it takes an age.

[Josef K]

How do you calibrate a monitor for tv output?

Windows Display applet -> Settings -> Advanced -> Colour Management -> Add.

Then choose NTSC1953.icc or PAL_SECAM.icc.

At least that adds the profiles to your list. I don't remember ever calibrating my monitor for TV output. I must give that a try someday, not that I'm unhappy with my menu colours as they are when I do them now.

[sync]

Which profile did you apply, if you added a new one?

I used AdobeRGB1998. I know that's not a monitor profile, but I figured it would have the right gamma.

Sometimes I have to think to myself whether or not I really want to load up PS just to make a slight tweak on something.

That's another reason I liked IR once I starting using it.

[Josef K]

I used AdobeRGB1998. I konw that's not a monitor profile, but I figured it would have the right gamma.

Like I said: Adobe worked hard on that profile so it's a good place to start from when you run AdobeGamma. Rather like having a solid base than wading waist deep in a pile of wrong colours. It just needs a bit of tweaking and then you're set.

That's another reason I liked IR once I starting using it.

That depends... Did you also add your custom plugins directory in the prefs? Roll on solid state hard drives...

[edDV]

How do you calibrate a monitor for tv output?

This is for stills only. You would need to match white and black levels to your TV capture loop using test patterns. Then gamma would need to be matched for the ramps and stair step test patterns. Then color would need to be matched the best you can. I forget the color procedure. The computer monitor is still in RGB space so the Photoshop NTSC filter would need to be applied to limit the colors.

It's still better to work on a high quality TV monitor if the outputs are meant for TV.

[Josef K]

It's still better to work on a high quality TV monitor if the outputs are meant for TV.

You just made me think of the obvious:

Use a graphic card with TV out. On the fly results.

[edDV]

I have my calibrated HDTV monitor hooked up to the computer three ways.

1. Off the ATI All-In-Wonder card S-Video output as a second monitor.

2. Off the Canopus ADVC-100 (output path) for monitoring video editors.

3. Off a NVidia card configured for 1080i monitoring (using Powerstrip).