pioneer DV333 and SVCD compatability???

[Laribal]

Hello everyone! I am having trouble getting svcd's to play on my Pioneer DV333. I made one some time ago and it plays flawlessly. Now, however, i have used many templates, including the ones that come with tmpgenc (standerd), and the video is always jittery and jumpy. If anyone has any idea why this is happening or has a template that works on the Pioneer DV333, let me know. All help is appreciated, thanks everyone!

[VidGuy]

You won't like the answer......

Almost surely, you're trying to do some kind of frame rate conversion with TMPGEnc. I play SVCDs of both DVD-rips and MiniDV conversions with no problem at all on the DV333.

What is the source you are using? It makes a big difference. If you're converting a PAL (25fps) Divx to an NTSC SVCD, you will almost surely have trouble with jumpiness unless you go to a lot of trouble.

Before you use a template, try draggin the avi to tmpgenc and see what tmpgenc thinks it is - then use the appropriate template (i.e. if it's 25 fps, use a PAL template - the DV33 plays PAL SVCDs just fine).

[Laribal]

I should have specified what i was converting. I am making a dvd rip. I use smart ripper to extract the VOB's onto the Hard drive, then i use dvd2avi to make the .d2v and .wav files for TMPGEnc. Once these are loaded, i select a template and hit start. The dvd is a NTSC region 1. I guess they would be the standerd 29.97 fps, but i could be wrong. When i load the NTSC super video CD template, the output on the dv333 is terrible. If i try the NTSC FILM Super Video CD, it is better, but still kind of jittery ( on parts with motion, the rest is ok ... like when the camera is focused on someone talking). I havnt tried the PAL template. How can i find out what fps the dvd is. Also, when i use the exact same method, only with regular VCD template, the picture is perfect ... well it isnt jittery. I would like to put movies I really like onto svcd because the quality is far better. If anyone has anymore idea's, let me know. Thanks again.

[adam]

Load your vobs in dvd2avi and preview it, let it get past the opening credits. If it says %95 or higher film than select force film. Most dvds are like this. Now in TMPGenc select the ntscfilm svcd template and it should be fine.

If its not higher than %95 or if it keeps resetting then force film will not work so deselect it. You can do an IVTC in TMPGenc if you want or you can just encode in 29.97fps and leave it interlaced, which basically just means select regular ntsc svcd template.

My guess is that you are using force film on a movie which doesnt support it, which is why it looks so bad.

[Laribal]

The information from the dvd2avi statistics window state the following:

Aspect Ration - 4:3
Frame Rate - 29.97
Video Type - NTSC
Frame Type - Interlaced

These are the stats when "NONE" is selected rather then "FORCED FILM" in the "Field Operation" Button (under Video). When Forced Film is selected, the only thing that changes is the frame rate (23.97). I tried using the Forced film option and using the NTSC FILM Super Video CD template in TMPGEnc, and I did it without Forced FILM using the NTSC Super Video CD template in TMPGEnc ... Both produced Jittery results during times of camera motion. The Forced Film was a little better though. I am not sure what the IVTC option in TMPGEnc is or how to do it, so i didnt try that. The DVD I am backing up is Tom Petty and the Heartbreakers: High Grass Dogs: Live ... if that makes any difference. I have already noticed that 95% statistic come up in Dvd2avi on other dvds, but nothing like that comes up for this one. I have been making backups for a while now, but i am stumped on this one! All of the files play back perfect when opened in Windows Media Player, however, but will just not play on my Pioneer. If anyone has anything else to try, my ears are open ... Thanks Everyone!

[flashjordan]

I'm having the exact same problem. I have a pioneer 333, made 50 or so DVD rips to SVCD with no problems. Recently, I built new computer and upgraded all my versions of software. I use Smartripper,DVD2avi,and Tmpgenc+2lame,all latest versions, since the upgrade, my SVCD's are jerky. I've tried everything I can think of. Standard SVCD,VBR low, VBR high, forced film, CBR low,high you name it, same result. Used the older versions and templates that workded on old(except Nero 5.something i was using before, upgraded to newer version and didnt save old version) same results. I'm at my wits end. My older SVCD's that I've made play perfect, now VCD's is the only thing I can make work on my standalone. What really sux is , since new computer, my encoding speed for 2pass vbr on very high(very slow) with Tmpegenc is about 2 1/2 hours for a 100min movie SVCD now cant make them play in Pioneer anymore.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: flashjordan on 2001-12-03 11:25:12 ]</font>

[adam]

Laribal your movie was telecined before being authored on dvd. This is common with non-cinematic releases like concert footage. Most dvds store the film in its original 24fps and use a flag which tells the dvd player to telecine it to the proper format. The force film function in dvd2avi basically uses this flag to reverse the process, preserving the original framerate. Since your dvd is interlaced, force film will not work. Now one way to handle this would be to simply leave the film interlaced and keep it at 29.97fps when you encode. It seems you have already tried this with poor results. It may be that the film was improperly interlaced or that there is something wrong with your dvd player. Regardless the best solution would be to remove the interlacing.

The preferred method is to do an inverse telecine in TMPGenc. Process your vobs through dvd2avi with force film UNCHECKED. Now load your d2v in TMPGenc and load the Super Video CD (ntscfilm) template. Now go to the advanced tab and double click on the inverse telecine function. Click on Auto-Setting and select enable while encoding. Go ahead and start the encoding process. You may want to encode in cbr and stop it after %5 or so to check and see whether the jitteryness is gone. If so go ahead and encode it using whatever mode you want. Hopefully TMPGenc handles the IVTC properly. If not you may need to do it manually in TMPGenc, selecting frames that look good and deselecting frames with interlacing. If you are unable to IVTC then you will need to use a deinterlace filter while encoding.

[poopyhead]

i have a pioneer dv333 also, pioneer is one of the most reliable brands with the best video quality playback and compatability support (except for mp3's....but who's gonna sit in front of the dvd player and listen to mp3's anywayz...)

if there's something wrong with the playback..it's not the dvd player..it's the SVCD

there's a process i've been told by sefy when you have a nearly NTSC video type as stated by DVD2AVI

1) leave forced film OFF in dvd2avi
2) use the standard SVCD NTSC template that comes standard with tmpgenc (not SVCD NTSC FILM)..but SVCD NTSC....the main difference i noticed in the settings between the SVCD NTSC template and SVCD NTSC FILM template is that the NTSC template has interlaced checked in the video tab while NTSC FILM template has 3:2 pulldown checked in the video tab instead........also, since you didn't have force film in dvd2avi, the framerate should be 29.97, source video should be interlaced and CAREFULLLY choose your field order as it is very, very important when dealing with interlaced and inverse telecine because choosing the wrong field order will cause jumpiness on your TV playback (NOT on computer monitor however)

[Laribal]

Thanks guys, I tried some of the stuff you said and jumpiness is gone Just one question though, in the field order, what is and what is the difference of "bottom field first (field B)" and "Top Field first A (Field A)" ... other thing that seemed to work and help this is to check the Inverse Tel. option, rather then Forced film, in dvd2avi then ecode in TMGenc with the svcd(ntcs film) template.

[poopyhead]

good explanation at luke's video at:

http://www.geocities.com/lukesvideo/

under interlacing link...

but here's a summary. your computer monitor is a progressive display, as opposed to your TV which is interlaced display. When you use forced film and your video source is non-interlaced the field order doesn't matter.

however, if you use inverse telecine and/or your video source is interlaced...then you have to choose the correct field order, if you plan on watching it on the TV. if you don't plan on ever watching your trip on a TV, then field order won't ever matter (i think). but if you plan on watching your rip on a TV, YOU NEED TO MAKE SURE YOU CHOOSE CORRECT FIELD ORDER OR THERE WILL BE JUMPINESS (i suggest encoding a really small clip and burning it on cd-rw and testing it on a TV...if it's jumpy, then you know you choose the wrong field order)

[flashjordan]

OK, this fixed my problem. Instead of IVTC. In DVD2AVI, I check forced film. In Tmpegnc, I had 23.976 and 3:2 pulldown on playback. So I guess this is whats going on. DVD2AVI keeps the movie at FILM 23.976. Im telling Tmpegnc to encode at 23.976. Now what I dont understand is , with 3:2 pulldown its making it do exactly what I told DVD2AVI to stop...Scratching my head on this. Dont know why this works, but looks helluva lot better to me then IVTC at 29.97 to 24. So this solved the jerkiness for me.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: flashjordan on 2001-12-04 17:37:50 ]</font>

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: flashjordan on 2001-12-04 17:41:02 ]</font>

[VidGuy]

The NTSC TV needs 29.97 frames per second. The 3:2 pulldown tells the DVD player to insert enough extra frames to make the 23.976 turn into 29.97.

While VCD can have a 23.976 fps MPeg2 file, as far as I know, a 23.976 SVCD doesn't normally work - it needs the pulldown bits. Just one of those things...