23.976 still got the jerks

[gilbates]

with the help of you guys i converted a 23.976 to ntsc dvd with tmpgenc, and its pretty good , but , i still have jerkiness about every 7 or 8 seconds , is this inherant in 23.976 int 29 with 3:2 pulldown when playback

or can i further reduce the jerks somehow

[Skynet107]

To be honest I believe the problem is native to tmpgenc. I have never been able to do 23.976 video properly with tmpgenc.

[gilbates]

is there another encoder that will do the job without the jerks , do ya know ?

[johns0]

I`ve made lots of 23.976 fps with 3:2 pulldown and never get jerky motion when using tmpgenc unless the source has streaming errors that dont show up til they are encoded or you have some settings wrong in tmpgenc or you are viewing the dvd files on your hdd with codecs that screw up the playback while viewing 3:2 pulldown video.

[sammie]

Depends what you mean by jerks? If you mean an occasional flicker, then as Johns0 notes steam errors can cause that and there isn't much you can do about it. In my experience, even the best captures contain some of these and they actually are likely native to the source material. If you are seeing serious skips and jumps, there is something wrong. TMPEGenc should be cpnverting just fine, but there are lots of options using AVIsynth and various filters if you aren't happy with the results you are seeing. Give everyone some more details on exactly what you are doing and you should get some good help.

Now, my two cents. I was never 100% happy with my results converting to 23.976. Although no one other than me really noticed the problem. But once I stopped doing VCDs and other bit starved encodes I for the most part stopped trying to convert. There is obviously a nice saving on the number of frames and threfore bitrate is conserved, but the occasional flicker annoyed me enough that I just stuck with 30 and left well enough alone.

[Eandtc]

I've been very pleased with VirtualDub and IVTC.

[gilbates]

cheers guys

i`l try to explain what happens when viewing but this isnt easy typing it

ok for about 7 or 8 seconds the playback is perfect and then its like frames are skipped giving an almost slow down for approx 1 or 2 seconds , audio is perfect in sync the whole time , this happens all the way through the file when played back on a dvd player

my settings in tmpgenc are
560x240
1:1
change F/R to 23 int 29
cbr
7000
224
main profile and main level
ntsc
3:2 pulldown on playback
4:2:0
9 bits
motion est search ( fast )

advanced
non-interlace ( progressive )
top field first ( field A )
1:1 vga
keep aspect ratio 2

gop / quant / audio and system untouched

this is setup in a wizard with a few changes and when i select what media ( dvd ) its always too big so i just decrease % to 96 to get it to fit

what ya rekon i`m doing wrong , must b something ?

[gilbates]

[adam]

Soft pulldowns are only guaranteed to work with compliant video. Use a compliant resolution and your problems will likely go away. With a resolution of 560x240 I'm suprised that the occasional jerk is your only problem. Check out the what is DVD link on this site to find dvd compliant resolutions. If you want to use non-standard settings then you will just have to accept these sorts of problems on any given player.

If you encode properly then there should never be any jerks in NTSCfilm (23.976fps) encoded SVCDs and DVDs.

[LostReaper]

I'm having the same problem here. The problem I have is that there are some parts of the movie where it seems to missing some frames; so it looks like it's not moving smoothly and is jerky. It happens when there is a lot of action. After that scene with a lot of action is over, it goes back to playing smoothly. I cannot figure out what I'm doing wrong. The picture is great quaility. I used a DVD-RW to play on my DVD player.

GSpot:
Video
Codec: DIVX/xvid | Name: DivX 4 (OpenDivX)
Stat: Codec(s) are Installed
Pics/Sec and Frms/Sec: 23.976
Frame: 640x480
FAR and DAR: 1.333 (4:3)

In TMPGEnc, I used ES (Video+Audio) for steam type. When I preview the movie with these settings below, I still see the jerkiness on the action parts.

My Settings for TMPGEnc Plus:

Video Tab:

StreamType: MPEG-2 Video
Size: 720x480 Pixels
Aspect Ratio: 4:3
Frame Rate: 23.976 fps (internally 29.97 fps)
Rate Control: 2-Pass VBR(VBR)
- Settings:

• - Average Bitrate: 6000
  - Maximum Bitrate: 8000
  - Minimum Bitrate: 2000
  - Max Pass: 2 Pass

Profile: Main Profile and Main Level (MP@ML)
Video Format: NTSC
Encode Mode: 3:2 pulldown when playback
YUV: 4:2:0
DC component precision: 9 bits
Motion search precision: Highest quaility (very slow)

Advanced Tab
Video Source Type: Interlace
Field Order: Top first (field A)
Source Aspect Ratio: 1:1 (VGA)
Video Arrange Method: Center (customize size) 640x440
Filters: Clip Frame

GOP structure and Quantize matrix tabs at default settings

Audio Tab
Stream Type: Linear PCM
Sampling Frequency: 48000 hz
Channel Mode: Stereo
Bitrate: 1536 kbits/sec

My processor is an AMD Athlon 64 Processor 3500+ with 480 power supply. The .avi, which is the orginal source plays smoothly. But when I try to make it on TMPGEnc Plus, some of the frames with lots of action become slow and jerky on the TMPGEnc preview, any media player, and my dvd player for the TV. I installed DivX Pro 5.2.1 Decoding, DivX Pro 5.1.1 Encoding, XviD Version 1.02 Decoding/Encoding, and 3ivX Pro (version D4 4.5.1) Encoding/Decoding .

[Skynet107]

It is far far better to use AVISynth along with TMPGenc, it will solve basically all your problems.

The major hangup when using TMPGEnc is it tries very hard to be "smart" and decide for you what the best settings are. Problem is, the app likes to encode everything as if it is 29.97 no matter what the source. Firstly, NEVER use the "Wizard" it is pretty much useless. Secondly, never let TMPGEnc chose the frame rate for you. And thirdly, never EVER let TMPGenc convert the frame rate or resize the video, it is horrible at both.

[LostReaper]

Thanks a lot! Everything runs smoothly now.

[moraize]

Lostreaper, I Have exactly the same problem you used to heva, and As I could See, you solved that.

The problem is on Panning Scenes, it look as if the Pulldown method was the problem , as it creates missing fields to create a 29,97 movie...

So How did you solve that??

Do you still use Tmpgenc, or changed encoder??

I tryed CCE, but it doesnt encode Xvid at all, nor I was able to Put Avisinth to funtion...

Thanks for any help...

[romeomike]

For people wanting to use CCE: the following method gives me perfect results. I use this to convert 23.976 fps to 25fps pal.

- Extract audio from xvid with virualdub.
- convert wav or ac3 to 25fps (or29,97) with ac3machine
- run avifrate to patch xvid framerate from 23.976 to 25 (or 29,97)
- create avisynth script to encode to mpeg2.

Done!

[LostReaper]

I made a script with AVISynth to do the things I wanted instead of letting TMPGEnc do it. After doing that, there were no more freezes while playing on my PC or DVD player. I also used pulldown.exe instead of letting tmpgenc do it too.

[moraize]

Ok, man, could you show me your script??

I can't put Avisynth scripts to function...

thanks...

[MrMoody]

This doesn't sound like the same problem, but I had noticed a slight jerk about once or twice per second in large-scale motion in TMPGEnc Plus 23.976 encodes. After a lot of fooling around, I traced it to the "Motion estimate search (fast)" option. Changing to "High quality (slow)" solved the problem and isn't that much slower.