Purchasing a new VCR and TBC

[Brent212]

Okay, I've decided to bite the bullet and buy a better VCR and/or a TBC.

So right now I think my current Sharp VCR is at the end of its life. Every video I cap seems to have a problem at the top of the frame where it looks like it's being "pulled" to one side at the upper corner. Anyone know what I'm talking about? It always seems to go to the right side also. Is this the sign of a screwy VCR, or just bad tapes? Some are worse than others, but will getting a better VCR and TBC fix this? If so, which of the two would do a better job at fixing it? Do TBC's help in this area, or are they just for audio/video synch?

I'm pretty set on getting a JVC HR-S9911U and a Datavideo TBC-1000. Are these good choices? I would go for a 9800 or 9600 instead of the 9911, but they seem too hard to come by, and I can get a refurbished 9911 for $250 shipped. Anyone know of a good place to pick up a TBC-1000?

My main concern is what happens if I get this equipment and it doesn't fix the problem? Some of these tapes that I'm using are brand new, so I'm thinking it has to be a problem with my VCR. I've had it for about 10 years, and I even had to open it up a few years ago and super glue a broken part. It has held together like a champ for a long time, but I think it might be time to replace it. Even if I got a TBC and no VCR, would that fix the "tugging" at the top of the frame that seems to be happening more often?

I basically want people to tell me this a great idea and I should go for it or tell me not to do it because it's just a waste of money and I won't see any difference. If that "tugging" effect at the top of the frame is common in bad VCRs, then I won't hesitate to get a new one.

[BrainStorm69]

The "flagging" you are talking about is caused by time base errors. A TBC should correct the problem. All VCRs will have some time base errors, it's just more noticeable on some. The JVC HR-S9911 has a built in TBC that will probably fix the problem. You could probably fix it (even with your current VCR) with the Datavideo TBC-1000 also.

[Brent212]

Okay, so I went ahead and ordered the 9911. If I'm satisfied with the playback using just that, I'll skip getting the TBC.

Now I'm curious as to the best way to use this VCR. I browsed through the manual and found basically three functions that you can use to improve playback:
1) Digital TBC/NR (time base corrector and noise reduction)
2) Digital R3 (edge correction)
3) Video Stabilizer

The catch is that you can't use both the Digital TBC/NR and the Video Stabilizer at the same time. And then something that's a little less than clear is that, in the section about Digital TBC/NR, it states, "The Digital R3 function which cuts noise and reproduces clear pictures is also linked to this function (the Digital TBC/NR)". So I'm thinking that means you can only use the Digital R3 when using the Digital TBC/NR.

So now I have two questions:

1) What would do a better job at fixing my "flagging" video problem, the Digital TBC/NR/R3, or the Video Stabilizer? I know I should just try both and see what works best, but I'm curious as to what others have experienced, and I'm too anxious to wait until the VCR arrives.

2) If I did end up getting the Datavideo TBC-1000 and using it along with this VCR, what would be better to use on the VCR - the Digital TBC/NR/R3, or the Video Stabilizer? Since the Datavideo is already providing a TBC, would the Video Stabilizer be a better choice? The concept of noise reduction and edge enhancement sounds pretty nice, and I guess I'd lose that if I was using the Video Stabilizer. Since the TBC's on both units do different things (line TBC vs. full frame?), maybe it WOULD be beneficial to use both (and get the picture enhancing functions also).

Okay, that's all. Thanks for any comments.

[lordsmurf]

No to most of those things.
You'll have to see it in action to understand.

The two TBCs are not at all the same.
Having both makes a big difference.

[Brent212]

No to what? I have know idea which part of my post that is aimed at?

The part where I assumed you can't use Digital R3 without using the Digital TBC/NR?

The part where I asked for my problem which would be better - the Digital TBC/NR/R3 or the Video Stabilizer? (which wasn't a yes or no question).

The part where I asked whether it'd be better to use the Digital TBC/NR/R3 or the Video Stabilizer when using the VCR in conjunction with a TBC-1000? (also not a yes or no question).

"No" leaves me scratching my head. Are you saying the noise reduction and edge enhancement functions are worthless? (I'm putting "no" after each sentence in my previous post, trying to see where it could fit).

I did read the page on your site describing the various features of the JVC VCR's. That was very informative. However, I'm still curious as to what settings on the JVC you'd recommend using as a "default" setup if I had a TBC-1000.

Oh yeah, I'm not sure if this changes anything, but I'm using this VCR for transfering VHS tapes to DVD, using a Hauppauge PVR 250.

[piano632]

Digital R3 is edge detail enhancement. It has nothing to do with the TBC or Video Stabilizer - you can turn in on/off independently but usually leaving it on provides a sharper picture.

You really have to experiment on your own to see what works best, as everyone's situation is different.

[lordsmurf]

R3 is mostly worthless.
DNR/TBC is the most important aspect.
And it is a line TBC with embedded DNR circuits.
Not at all like a full-field TBC.
Stabilizer is not needed that much.

The GHOST REDUCTION in the tuner is quite helpful.
So is the REC LEVEL audio monitor.

Every single tape is different. There are no answers to your questions.
No way to avoid being vague. Sorry, way it is.

[Brent212]

Since the Ghost Reduction is for the tuner and the Rec Level audio monitor is for recording (I'm assuming), they don't affect the way a tape will play back, do they?

[lordsmurf]

The REC LEVEL will.
Especially on passthrough from another VCR in a chain.

[Brent212]

Nice. I've always thought it'd be useful to be able to control the volume output from my VCR going into my capture card.

[TheFamilyMan]

I bought a JVC sr-v10 specifically for its TBC/NR. This model is one step down from the 9911. Here's my experience: Its TBC worked wonders on tapes that had horizontal flagging, jitter, wobble or whatever it is really called. The stabilizer works very well to correct footage whose picture jumps up and down (vertical instability). The rub is that only one of the features is available for use (as you already know). In a few cases, I needed both but was forced to use the TBC/NR due to excessive dropped frames in the capture when using the stabilizer. Obviously the source tapes in these cases were pretty worn. I never bother using the R3 when capturing; some on this forum claim it actually messes up the capture quality and others claim it's great. As the above posters have said, try the features and use what you thinks works the best for you. Also note that playback difficulties can vary greatly from tape to tape. Good Luck.

[Brent212]

awesome. Thanks for all the replies. I'm super stoked on getting this VCR. Hopefully it'll be a noticeable improvement over my current setup.

[tdan]

The REC LEVEL will.
Especially on passthrough from another VCR in a chain.

Does this mean that it may be possible to use some of the features of my soon-to-arrive JVC SR-V10U to clean up noisy video from my Video8 camcorder if I pass the signal through the VCR first? If so, which features would work that way?

[TheFamilyMan]

Does this mean that it may be possible to use some of the features of my soon-to-arrive JVC SR-V10U to clean up noisy video from my Video8 camcorder if I pass the signal through the VCR first? If so, which features would work that way?

Unfortunately all the nifty video features are applied only to the tape that is being played by the VCR. I never tried the audio level adjustment....

edit:
And now for something completely different - My six year old panasonic VHS VCR run rings around my sr-v10 when it comes to picture quality when playing tapes that are in excellent condition and of top rate quality.

[Wile_E]

Nice. I've always thought it'd be useful to be able to control the volume output from my VCR going into my capture card.

I have the JVC HRS-9911U, and you can't control playback volume output on this VCR. The "Rec Level" option is just for adjusting record level only. It does not affect playback level. This is unfortunate, because I have several VHS tapes with Hi-Fi soundtracks, that were recorded to loud. On my VCR, the audio level indicators are maxing out to +8db. I hear crackles, clicks, and pops, when capturing through to my Canopus ADVC-300. Since it is receiving too high of audio input, even it can't correct the pops, clicks, and distortion I'm getting. I'm having to use Adobe Audition to get rid of this noise. If only JVC added an option to adjust audio playback level too.

The Digital R3 doesn't seem to make much of a difference to me. But the DNR/TBC on the VCR does. I can clearly see the difference, as it really stabalizes the jitter in the video. Also the "Soft" setting is very nice to use when capturing, as it softens the video and gets rid of noise too. I like it better than using the "3D noise reduction" on the ADVC-300. If I put the 300 "3D" setting on "strong", I sometimes get weird colored artifacts with fast moving objects. The Canopus "2D noise reduction" set to "strong", is similar to the JVC soft option, but the JVC seems to do a better job at getting rid of noise and the grainy look.

[lordsmurf]

The REC LEVEL on my 9800 controls audio system wide. Playback or recording. I guess the 9911 your have is either defective, or that feature was removed from later 9000 versions.

[LordVader]

Does the "JVC HR-S9911" support tapes recorded in LP mode ?

i cheked the playback modes, and it says SP & EP only.

i want to get this unit, but i have some very old LP tapes.

i'll probably kill my self if i find out, that it don't support LP playback, after buying it.

[lordsmurf]

I plays all 3, but only records 2.

[Brent212]

The REC LEVEL on my 9800 controls audio system wide. Playback or recording. I guess the 9911 your have is either defective, or that feature was removed from later 9000 versions.

The REC LEVEL on my 9800 definitely doesn't control the audio output level. Same with the 9911. I don't think it's meant to, hence the "REC". Even the descriptions in both the 9800 and 9911 manuals indicate it's only for the line in volume.

[cactusjack310]

Anyone here know of a good reliable place I could pick up a HR-S9911U pretty cheap?

[lordsmurf]

eBay.com, eCost.com, pricegrabber.com

[gshelley61]

If you are scanning eBay for a deal on a DigiPure equipped JVC, look for any of these units:

HR-S9600U
HR-S9800U
HR-S9900U
HR-S9911U
HR-S7600U
HR-S7800U
HR-S7900U
SR-V10U

The 9600 is considered by many to be the best of the 4MB units, and the 7600 the best of the 2MB models. The SR-V10U is the prosumer version of the 7900. All of them have excellent playback image quality.

[BSR]

S9911U - I remember seeing Ecost selling refurbished ones for around $247 or so a couple months ago.
Not sure how good they were, but that was the cheapest I ever seen them.

[gshelley61]

There was also a JVC HR-S9500U with 4MB DigiPure, but I've been told it has reliability issues.

[cactusjack310]

O.K. Thanks guys!

[alanb49]

gshelley61: Do you have any experience with the JVC HMDH40000U? It also is said to have Digipure Technology with 4MB Frame Memory. Here is a link:

http://www.vanns.com/shop/servlet/item/details/473799114

Do you think it would be as good as the HR-S9911U? The HMDUH40000U has some additional capabilities for just a few dollars more. I do not care about the included TBC as I have a Datavideo TBC-1000.

Thanks

[lordsmurf]

"Digipure Technology with 4MB Frame Memory" should be a TBC.
Verify with JVC's site what this thing has. Don't trust site in your link.

[alanb49]

The JVC website states, "DigiPure Technology for high resolution analog recording and playback". Nothing else as to whether it is 2MB or 4MB, etc.

http://www.jvc.com/product.jsp?modelId=MODL027070&pathId=50&page=2

The manual does not provide any additional details except to say (page 54) that the VCR has:
V. Calibration
Picture Control
Digital R3
Video Stabilizer

[lordsmurf]

I would say it's not much better than a cheapo 3900 or 2900 units. All it has is DVHS too.

Still not quality of 7000/8000/9000 machines.
"MB" = TBC RAM with DNR circuits

The Digipure will clean chroma a bit, but still not as good a job without TBC

[gshelley61]

I have heard that there are some other problems with the DVHS units not related to VHS playback. I have no idea what the playback image quality for VHS is on the DVHS machines. Looks good on paper, but you never know. I think Best Buy still sells them... maybe take a VHS tape into a BB and check the machine out.