HDTV tuner for OTA broadcasts

[Kingnog]

Well, I'm a newbie to this whole HDTV thing. I have a samsung TXN2745FP tv

http://product.samsung.com/cgi-bin/nabc/product/b2c_product_detail.jsp?prod_id=TXN2745FPX%252fXAA

and I "converted" it to HDTV by enabling the 1080i option in the service menu. Now, according to multiple sources on the internet, this does in fact allow HDTV resolutions to be displayed on the tv.

Here's my problem: There is no HDTV tuner built into the tv, and no HD ports on the tv. All I want to do with it is receive over-the-air HDTV signals from my local stations in addition to my standard cable, so I don't want to spend $200 or more on an HDTV tuner.

So to sum it up, here are my questions:
1: Can a $10 antenna that claims to be "HDTV READY" display a HD picture on my tv without a HDTV tuner?

2: If not, is there a very inexpensive (sub-$50) hdtv tuner available anywhere that has, preferably, component video outputs for my tv?

Sorry for the long post, guys...but I appreciate any advice or suggestions you can give me!

[andkiich]

1) Antenna doesn't matter. as long as it can pick up TV signals, you are good to go.

2) You might be ableto find something used on ebay, but retail on most HDTV tuners are $100-$200 right now.

[edDV]

Q1 No. Your set only has an analog tuner.
Q2 Maybe an old ebay model. Old DTV tuners may have poor performance.


What you have there is a 4:3 CRT progressive EDTV a fairly rare beast.

EDTV is designed to perfectly match progressive DVD players at 720x480p and Digital SDTV at 704x480 in interlaced or progressive. The set also has a normal NTSC TV tuner that will display in 480i

1. Normal TV tuner and cable box

All the Samsung specs lists is 480i support for normal analog broadcasts. The comb filter will give a sharper picture.

2. Digital TV SDTV (704x480)

For this you will need an external DTV tuner such as
http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.gsp?product_id=2598451

If you get one of these, you will be able to tune OTA DTV channels* that contain HDTV or SDTV content. Your set will be able to accept the 480i, 480p or 1080i outputs over the analog component connectors.

Since your set is a EDTV, this means that HDTV will be displayed at 720x480 progressive, the same as a current DVD.

You could get a HD model cable/dbs box. This would allow you to tune in the cable HD channels but like above, your set would display those channels at 480i or 480p.

3. Progressive DVD Player

The main advantage you have with that set is you can team it with a good quality progressive DVD player to watch your DVDs in 480p. You need to use analog component connections and both the DVD player and TV need to be set to progressive mode.

* understand the difference of being able to tune in a HDTV broadcast and the TV set's ability to display that broadcast at HD resolutions. Since your set is EDTV, it will downscale any 1080i input to 480i or 480p.

Even if your CRT set was "HD ready" it would only display a 1080i input at the maximum resolution of the CRT. Typically a "HD Ready" CRT set has only 800-1100 equivalent horizontal resolution (e.g. ~1080x1080 progressive maximum resolution)

[Kingnog]

Wow, edDV, that was an amazing post! I actually understand things now

Yes, I did notice that DVD's with my new component cable I bought last week look AMAZING, compared to the yellow/red/white cables I was using before.

One thing I don't quite understand:

1. Normal TV tuner and cable box
All the Samsung specs lists is 480i support for normal analog broadcasts. The comb filter will give a sharper picture.

If you get one of these, you will be able to tune OTA DTV channels* that contain HDTV or SDTV content. Your set will be able to accept the 480i, 480p or 1080i outputs over the analog component connectors.

Since your set is a EDTV, this means that HDTV will be displayed at 720x480 progressive, the same as a current DVD.

So will there be a major difference in quality if I attach an HD tuner to an antenna for OTA broadcasts? (also, how would I go about setting it up so that my tv accepts both my cable, without a cable box, and the antenna signal?)

Also, as I mentioned before, following the instructions on the sites:
http://64.233.161.104/search?q=cache:TWIcT3TgE2IJ:www.dealauthority.com/forums/t68804....ient=firefox-a
http://64.233.161.104/search?q=cache:CONIrvwCLP0J:dbstalk.com/showthread.php%3Ft%3D352...ient=firefox-a

I enabled a "1080i" mode on my tv. It seems to work, as at least two people on the forums have tested it with an HD source and can clearly see a difference. I'm assuming that this means I can attach the (hypothetical) hdtv tuner to my tv and get hd picture if watching an hd broadcast...

So now my only problem is getting an HD tuner, cheap. Thanks for the info, it really helps!

[edDV]

Here's the deal,

That set was marketed as EDTV (720x480 max). It shares many features with the "HD ready" models that are covered in the same user manual.

Samsung did one of two things to offer this TV at such a low price.

1. They just blocked 1080i modes in software and everything else is the same. This assumes they could derate the printed TV spec and still make money.

2. (more likely) They used the chassis (electronics) from the "HD ready" line but substituted a lower resolution CRT from the analog line. That type of CRT is capable of around 470 "lines of resolution" or ~ 640-720x480 in digital terms.

Even if it would respond to 1080 vertical line scans, the horizontal response would still be in the 640-720 range and the phosphors too large for 1080i display.

Samsung may have also derated the power supply so that even if you find a way to force 1080 line vertical scans, you may stress the high voltage power supply causing distortion or failure.

The people that have done the hack should test the horizontal and vertical resolution to see if any benefit is measurable.

[Kingnog]

2. (more likely) They used the chassis (electronics) from the "HD ready" line but substituted a lower resolution CRT from the analog line. That type of CRT is capable of around 470 "lines of resolution" or ~ 640-720x480 in digital terms.

That's kind of what common sense says, so I guess it's probably true. I also don't really need HD picture, seeing as how on a 27 inch screen the current resolution is more than enough. As it is, the picture is amazing. Thanks for all the info though, I had been searching around for a while and not making much progress.

[edDV]

2. (more likely) They used the chassis (electronics) from the "HD ready" line but substituted a lower resolution CRT from the analog line. That type of CRT is capable of around 470 "lines of resolution" or ~ 640-720x480 in digital terms.

That's kind of what common sense says, so I guess it's probably true. I also don't really need HD picture, seeing as how on a 27 inch screen the current resolution is more than enough. As it is, the picture is amazing. Thanks for all the info though, I had been searching around for a while and not making much progress.

Nothing wrong with EDTV especially on a 27". It's the same as progressive DVD but you would need a DTV tuner to get the full EDTV quality from broadcast or cable. You won't get that quality from analog TV.

Taking normal NTSC analog as a base. I'd say PAL has maybe a 20% advantage*, 480i EDTV a 60% advantage, 480p EDTV a 80% advantage, 1080i/540p, a 100% advantage, 720p 140% advantage and 1080p, when viewed on a display that can handle it, a 300% advantage.

Just my opinion.


*once your eyes adjust to the 50Hz flicker. For me this takes 2-4 days.

[handyguy]

The CRT samsungs I saw at circuit city have three hdtv tuners, QAM, ATSC, HDTV. Are you sure yours didn't come with these?