Deals forum...

[ViRaL1]

Is there?

Was there?

Will there be?

Might come in handy for some.

Then again, maybe an OT sticky might be enough.

[pacmania_2001]

As in a for sale section?

Never was, probably never will be. Too much trouble to moderate on a board of this size and with users from all over the globe.

[freestyler]

I don't think Viral means a for sale section, but rather a Deals section such as "This week at Best Buy etc."

I think it'd be really useful seeing as I've gone out and gotten some good buys using deals I've seen posted in OT.

[lordsmurf]

I can already foresee it turning into a "for sale" section. Anybody can claim their item is a "deal".

[freestyler]

Damn you LS and your futurevision...

[Capmaster]

There are already "deals" posts in the Media forum, for example. And some in the Computer forum.

Baldrick doesn't want it to turn into a swapmeet here, and I agree wholeheartedly. It would be a nightmare sifting through all the ads to make sure everything was legal and ethical.

And with the exposure this site gets, everybody would be slapping up ads for second-hand exercise bikes with video-sounding links, herbal Viagra alternatives, etc. It'd be nothing but spam once the internet marketers got wind of it. - free advertising :P

As it stands now, the "deals" posts are allowed because the poster doesn't profit, unless it's a vendor coming in with an alias and "alerting" the members about a deal. There have been several of those, and they're usually banned outright

[EvilWizardGlick]

This site is nice
http://www.fatwallet.com/forums/categories.php?catid=18

This as well
http://www.ebates.com/landing_onedollar.jsp?promotion_code=AP1&sourceid=0020314420qIZc...-RTQZ1ATX5NDGu

[jimmalenko]

As it stands now, the "deals" posts are allowed because the poster doesn't profit, unless it's a vendor coming in with an alias and "alerting" the members about a deal. There have been several of those, and they're usually banned outright

I was wondering about that, given the AUP says no advertising n all. Is alerting others to a good deal not classed as advertising ? Huuuuuuge grey area there IMO.

[Capmaster]

As it stands now, the "deals" posts are allowed because the poster doesn't profit, unless it's a vendor coming in with an alias and "alerting" the members about a deal. There have been several of those, and they're usually banned outright

I was wondering about that, given the AUP says no advertising n all. Is alerting others to a good deal not classed as advertising ? Huuuuuuge grey area there IMO.

It's a gray area all right. But we've had members who are recently joined, who have 6 posts in different forums, all of them working a particular website into the discussion

They go bye-bye

[jimmalenko]

I would've thought that there would be the least problems if advertising were banned cold turkey. It's the same for everyone then. Then there's no concessions for regulars to post deals, which would surely scare away the fly-by-nighters. Zero tolerance in this instance IMHO.

[lordsmurf]

VideoHelp.com.
HELP.
Forum = People
People helping each other.
Telling others about deals in forum? Help? Sure.

Posting ads about your own products? Help?
Not really. Advertising and product whoring.

That's the difference.

[jimmalenko]

VideoHelp.com.
HELP.
Forum = People
People helping each other.
Telling others about deals in forum? Help? Sure.

Posting ads about your own products? Help?
Not really. Advertising and product whoring.

That's the difference.

Active forum regular who just happens to be an employee ?

Is that helping or whoring ?

That's the grey area.

[Capmaster]

VideoHelp.com.
HELP.
Forum = People
People helping each other.
Telling others about deals in forum? Help? Sure.

Posting ads about your own products? Help?
Not really. Advertising and product whoring.

That's the difference.

Active forum regular who just happens to be an employee ?

Is that helping or whoring ?

That's the grey area.

I think it's OK to mention your place of work, but when every post has the website where something is being sold....or just several times ....that's suspicious, and usually earns a yellow or a red card.

Putting it in your signature would constitute advertising and wouldn't be allowed.

[jimmalenko]

I think it's OK to mention your place of work, but when every post has the website where something is being sold....or just several times ....that's suspicious, and usually earns a yellow or a red card.

Putting it in your signature would constitute advertising and wouldn't be allowed.

There are some cut-and-dried examples of straight-out shameless self-promotion, I just think that there's too many in the grey area, and the only way to truly eliminate the grey area is an across-the-board ban. It's similar when someone whores a certain product - may be just because they like the product, but also could be because they have shares in the company etc etc etc. Some are more obvious than others (read NakedGeek ).

Still, it's Mr B's call I guess....

[BJ_M]

is "hire me" allowed ?

[Capmaster]

There are some cut-and-dried examples of straight-out shameless self-promotion, I just think that there's too many in the grey area, and the only way to truly eliminate the grey area is an across-the-board ban. It's similar when someone whores a certain product - may be just because they like the product, but also could be because they have shares in the company etc etc etc. Some are more obvious than others (read NakedGeek

I think the concensus of the mods here is that it's better to have wording in the rules that "the admin or his moderators make the final determination" or similar wording.

Having rules that pin it down too exactly opens the door for juuuust skirting the rules enough to get away with it, and screaming bloody murder when dinged. Someone could say "the rules don't specifically forbid it, so it must be OK". We're trying to avoid that, and so it's a judgment call on the mod's part. And I think we're pretty consistent with how we discriminate between "allowable" links and "advertising"

[lordsmurf]

but also could be because they have shares in the company

I know you're pretty much just repeating this... because it's been said before in these forums...

... but it's stupid, always has been stupid, always will be stupid. Nobody owns enough stock for this line of "reasoning" to ever work. It's such a weak argument that even a junior high debate student would re-consider using it.

It's one of those things that just floors me, as I cannot fathom somebody would actually believe it. It's a bluff argument, and a bad one. A laughable one.

Things like this are often called "argument enders" because one person is blown away by this flawed-logic display, and the other one actually thinks they proved a good point (and thus adding to the shock of the other party). Sometimes the shocked one is unsure if the other is joking or serious.

Luckily, jim, I know you're just playing a role of devil's advocate here.

[jimmalenko]

but also could be because they have shares in the company

...
Luckily, jim, I know you're just playing a role of devil's advocate here.

That's right - we're among friends here ..

Just exploring some of the boundaries

In a perfect world, black and white, zero tolerance. In our world (the real one), I tend to agree, Cap. Have some disclaimer in there gives discretion for those that have a hex code in the range #000001 - #FFFFFE

Good discussion

[ViRaL1]

I wonder how many of you guys work for Newegg.

[gll99]

Jim raises a good question. For example Lordsmurf, are the 2 links in your signature pointing to your site or just sites of interest? Did Baldrick or the other mods have to approve. Are links to our own sites (even if somewhat commercial) acceptable in our posts. New users can see such links and assume it's ok to advertise other sites. Just pointing out a possible flaw here.

[lordsmurf]

For example Lordsmurf, are the 2 links in your signature pointing to your site or just sites of interest?

Two sites full of free video information.

[gll99]

For example Lordsmurf, are the 2 links in your signature pointing to your site or just sites of interest?

Two sites full of free video information.

I guess few sites are truly free since traffic means advertising, possible side business and donations but my question was are you affiliated with those sites?

I had already visited both links and they seem very well designed and informative but my point was... how do new users make a distinction thinking it's ok to post a link and then get carded or banned for spamming. Anyone who spends a bit of time here can quickly recognize the commercial spammers and the mods are quick to catch those but some other decisions may be more based on the mood of the mod or if a user is one of the good old OT boys.
Here is an example: before Kwag's KVCD site was free but now requires a forced donation. If someone put the full link in their posts but not in context with the subject being discussed, would that be spamming or not? Another mod can answer this if he/she wants I'm not trying to put anyone on the spot here just a healthy discussion.

btw) This is still in keeping with the topic of a proposed "deals forum" since links would no doubt be provided. I like the one's pointing to local store sales like Best Buy and Future Shop Can. It saved me from missing a few sales at least 3 times in the last few months but I can see why some of this stuff could cast suspicion on the affiliation of the poster.

[jimmalenko]

I guess few sites are truly free since traffic means advertising, possible side business and donations but my question was are you affiliated with those sites?

I had already visited both links and they seem very well designed and informative but my point was... how do new users make a distinction thinking it's ok to post a link and then get carded or banned for spamming. Anyone who spends a bit of time here can quickly recognize the commercial spammers and the mods are quick to catch those but some other decisions may be more based on the mood of the mod or if a user is one of the good old OT boys.

Yep, you're thinking along similar lines to me ....

IMO that's where the grey area comes in ... say <insert name of OT regular here> posts a great deal on <insert media here> at <insert retailer here> this week. The mods leave it up, because they know the OT regular is sharing the knowledge and not profiting out of it. Some NOOB stumbles across it, and gets the impression that it's OK to do this, for anything, anywhere. All of a sudden a few more threads surface, one of which just happens to link to a product that he/she can/will make a profit on, and it gets taken down, and they get carded. I for one could understand their confusion as to why one advertisement is OK, yet another is not.



As we've both mentioned, we're probably clutching at straws a bit and talking about those dreaded hypotheticals, but it's still just healthy discussion

[Capmaster]

Anyone who spends a bit of time here can quickly recognize the commercial spammers and the mods are quick to catch those but some other decisions may be more based on the mood of the mod or if a user is one of the good old OT boys.

You're insinuating that OT regulars get more leeway than the other members. :P

If you think they get to do whatever they want, do a forum search in OT for the words "formal warning". Then tell me what you find

[bugster]

I guess few sites are truly free since traffic means advertising, possible side business and donations but my question was are you affiliated with those sites?

My opinion on some of these issues:

Links to sites where the primary purpose of that site is to sell a specific product are OK once or twice if it is related to the topic under discussion. Constant repetition of such links is not and the user will be warned. If a sepcific product would help a user solve the problem under discussion, links to the videohelp tools entry are prefarable but sometimes not available.

Links to sites (in a topic or sig) that contain useful or related information, but just happen to carry advertising (often simply a way of helping fund the site) are , IMHO, OK.

Lots of grey areas I agree, so lots for Mods to make decisions about. Thats why so many of us have grey hair

[jimmalenko]

do a forum search in OT for the words "formal warning". Then tell me what you find

102.

Some other interesting numbers:

Latest News - 10
Newbie / General Discussions - 78
(S)VCD Authoring - 2
DVD Authoring - 19
DV - 2
Digital TV - 0
Capturing - 4
Audio - 2
Newbie Conversion - 15
Advanced Conversion - 5
DVD to (S)VCD, AVI - 2
DVD to DVDR - 41
Editing, cutting and joining - 9
Software Playing - 2
Linux Video Forum - 0
Mac Video Forum - 2
Media - 12
Programming - 1
Restoration - 0
DVD Writers - 3
DVD Recorders - 7
DVD Players - 10
User Guides - 1
Glossary - 9
Computer - 6
Off Topic - 102
Feedback - 16
Test - 6
Polls - 6
VCDEasy General - 0
ffmpegX Announcements - 0
ffmpegX General Discussion - 0
ffmpegX Bugs & suggestions - 0
SVCD2DVD General - 2

This naturally does not include any threads that have been moved into the Closed Topics forum.

Gotta laugh at the 6 warnings in the test forum - methinks someone's been jacking up their postcount ... but who I wonder ...

[Capmaster]

Thanks Jimm. My point exactly.

And the Closed Topics forum has the particularly bad threads, so you can probably double that number for OT

[jimmalenko]

Off the beaten track a little (and on a lighter note ), there's one particular thread in the Test forum that set off all the bells and whistles, and I think that it deserves to be cast back into the spotlight for everyone's viewing pleasure - https://www.videohelp.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=237092 - who could forget when offline banned himself ?

[yoda313]

Off the beaten track a little (and on a lighter note ), there's one particular thread in the Test forum that set off all the bells and whistles, and I think that it deserves to be cast back into the spotlight for everyone's viewing pleasure - https://www.videohelp.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=237092 - who could forget when offline banned himself ?

Hello,

That is hilarious!

A mod FRAGGED himself!

Kevin

(friendly fire anyone??? )

[Capmaster]

A classic