how to best convert AVI from captured video to DVD?

[namsilat]

I have whole bunch of multimedia clips captured off my Sony camcorder in the form of AVI files. These AVI files have over 15000 kbps, some up towards to 30000 kbps. When I converted these to about 9000 kbps video (plus audio), the quality is obviously not as good. Does anybody have any suggestion on improving the video quality? I don't mind using up more DVDs to burn these video clips if it's doable. Thanks.

[solarfox]

You're already getting close to the maximum bit rates for DVD as it is, so using more DVD's (at a higher bit rate, presumably) isn't the answer.

The captures off your Sony camcorder are, I presume, DV-codec video imported via Firewire? You certainly ought to be able to get a good-quality DVD without having to run your bit rate that high; I've gotten results near-indistinguishable from the original footage with video bit rates in the 6000-7000Kbps range.

What programs are you using to convert the AVI DV files to MPEG-2, and what settings are you using?

[jimmalenko]

Try the top guide here https://www.videohelp.com/guides.php?tools=&madeby=&formatconversionselect=&howtoselect...or+List+Guides. There's possibly a couple of steps you can eliminate, and you need to have a bit of an understanding how TMPGEnc works, but the end results are slightly better than source when used for VHS. I would imagine that "true" DV material should be able to be preserved as good as source provided you use the right settings in TMPGEnc (bitrates, frame sizes, etc etc etc). When you say that the quality isn't as good, what is wrong with it ? noise ? pixelation ? throw us a bone here.

[Garibaldi]

The best way to do it is do what I do, capture in mpeg2 (no rendering)! But if you have to capture in avi then I would try TMPGENC.

[namsilat]

I thought about capturing directly from the camcorder, but have not tried it to see the difference. Based on the bit rate, I did not even want to bother with it. The AVI files have bit rates over 15000 kbps, some close to 30000 kbps, I don't think any conversion can do better. I did use TMPGEnc to do the conversion, but the outcome at the max DVD rate of 9000 kbps is just not good.

Someone somewhere mentioned converting to ?DivX to preserve the quality? But how does that allow the CD/DVD to be playable on regular DVD player?

[Garibaldi]

Someone somewhere mentioned converting to ?DivX to preserve the quality? But how does that allow the CD/DVD to be playable on regular DVD player?

Some dvd players do support divx playback, but probably not yours. Maybe they mean encoding the avi to divx from the start so that your using a good quality codec. If you want to try that I would recommend XviD, its basically the same as DivX only open source.

[solarfox]

DivX or XviD are both compressed formats as well, they just use a different algorithm to do it which may or may not yield better results than MPEG-2, depending on the encoder, settings, source material, etc.

What on earth are you working with that a 9000Kbps MPEG-2 is unacceptable??

I thought about capturing directly from the camcorder, but have not tried it to see the difference. Based on the bit rate, I did not even want to bother with it. The AVI files have bit rates over 15000 kbps, some close to 30000 kbps, I don't think any conversion can do better.

What do you mean, "capturing directly from the camcorder?" You are capturing directly from the camcorder via Firewire... aren't you??

If we are to help you, we need details -- lots and lots of details. Please remember that we have no way of knowing what is inside your PC, how your equipment is hooked up, or what programs and settings you're using, unless you tell us.

Please describe the exact process you are using to get from camcorder to finished DVD:

(1) How, exactly, is your camcorder connected to your PC? Are you using a direct Firewire (a.k.a. IEEE1394 or iLink) DV connection? Do you have analog composite or S-video cables going directly into the inputs of an analog-capture board inside your PC? (And if so, what is the make and model of the capture board?) Or are you using some external capture device which plugs into a Firewire or USB port? (And if so, again, what is the make and model of the device?)

(2) What program are you using to capture the video from your camcorder to your hard drive? What version? Using what settings?

(3) You say the AVI files "have bit rates over 15000 kbps, some close to 30000 kbps." How have you determined this?

(4) Which particular video codec are these AVI files in, and at what resolution? (If they were a direct DV-over-Firewire capture, they should be DV-Type-1 or DV-Type-2 @ 720x480 for NTSC, or 720x580-something for PAL; if they were made using an analog-capture device, they could be any one of a dozen formats and resolutions, some better than others.) If necessary, use a tool like GSpot to determine this.

(5) After capturing, what tool(s) are you using to encode them to DVD-compliant MPEG-2? What versions? Using what settings?

(6) Once you have your DVD-compliant MPEG-2 files, what program(s) are you using to author and burn the DVD itself? What version? Using what settings?

(7) Please try to describe exactly what is "just not good" about the image quality of the finished DVD vs. your original camera footage. Visible macroblocks around the edges of objects? Color banding? Macroblock noise in dark sections of the picture, or during fast movements? Picture too light, too dark, not enough contrast, too much contrast?

If you can answer all or most of these questions in sufficient detail for us to understand what you're doing, how you're doing it, and why the results are unsatisfactory to you, we may be able to identify a flaw in your process that's causing the problem, and/or to suggest some tools which might do better than whatever you're currently using. Otherwise, all we can do is throw out random suggestions that may or may not have any bearing on your problem.

[jimmalenko]

WOW. Yep, Solarfox nailed it there. If you can answer all that it won't be too hard to recommend some improvements I'm sure.

[solarfox]

Heh -- yeah, I know it's a lot of questions. But like I said, without knowing those things we can't do much more than throw out random suggestions.

Just saying "the quality isn't as good when I convert from AVI to DVD", without providing specifics, is a lot like taking your car to the mechanic and telling him "the car's making a funny noise" without telling him what kind of noise it is or where it sounds like it's coming from. Sure, the mechanic could just start replacing parts at random until the noise goes away, but that's not exactly the most efficient way to go about it!

[namsilat]

well, I purposely left out many of those details because I thought they were trivial and "newbie", things like using a firmwire for transfer etc. But if this helps, here are the answers.

(1) yes I am using firmwire connected directly between my computer and camcord for capture

(2) I tried MM2 under DV-AVI mode, but couldn't get audio (that's another problem of its own), so I ended up using WinDV and it worked perfectly.

(3) I used AviCodec to look at the audio/video information of various clips captured

(4) I have no idea how exactly you find out which codec they are in. I downloaded the panasonic codec on the tool page as recommended by someone else in another thread for my Sony camcorder. As far as I can tell, it's 720x480 NTSC.

(5) I used TMPGEnc on CBR of 9400 kbps for video and 384 kbps for audio.

(6) haven't gone that far to burn yet. I wasn't going to trying burning them until I could get better quality

(7) I don't know exactly how to described "not good quality". If I run the originally captured AVI file side-by-side with the converted MPEG2 file, you can see the MPEG2 is just of a much poorer quality. That's not a surprise giving the bit rate of the video, with AVI at least double sometimes triple the bit rate of the MPEG2 file. The problem is that standard DVD won't accept video bitrate over 9800 kbps including video. Quality obviously has to suffer. I guess the real question is not "whether there is a deterioration of quality", but "how we can minimize that deterioration".

[vhelp]

ok.

Another question..

What is your source type that you are capturing to DV from ??

(ie, Analog Cable, Digital Cable; Saltellite; VHS; Antenna) ??

Next, ...

Is the video of Film or Interlace. Well, to put it simple.., is
the video you are capturing a Movie (ie, The Fifth Element) ??
Or is it just a tv show ??

If you know *for sure* that it is a Movie, you could incorporate
an IVTC step in your TMPG encoding. BUT YOU MUST KNOW *FOR SURE*
THAT IT IS !! !! !! !!
Don't go trying it on an Interlaced only source, and coming back
here complaining that it don't work

-vhelp

[solarfox]

well, I purposely left out many of those details because I thought they were trivial and "newbie", things like using a firmwire for transfer etc. But if this helps, here are the answers.

Yes, that helps, because now we know what your process is. Given the sheer number of hardware and software tools available, and the number of combinations they can be used in, the devil is, as they say, in the details...

(4) I have no idea how exactly you find out which codec they are in. I downloaded the panasonic codec on the tool page as recommended by someone else in another thread for my Sony camcorder. As far as I can tell, it's 720x480 NTSC.

The GSpot tool I mentioned will tell you -- but in this case, it's probably not all that relevant; if you're doing a direct DV-over-Firewire transfer, then the codec is DV-Type-1 or DV-Type-2. That question was mostly in case you were either using some manner of analog-capture device or card, since many of those either let you choose from the available codecs on your system, or install their own codecs and save in a proprietary format.

(6) haven't gone that far to burn yet. I wasn't going to trying burning them until I could get better quality.

Try it anyway, just for grins. PC monitors and television sets often have radically different display characteristics; you may find that something which looks "wrong" on a PC monitor may be a lot less noticeable on your TV.

(7) I don't know exactly how to described "not good quality". If I run the originally captured AVI file side-by-side with the converted MPEG2 file, you can see the MPEG2 is just of a much poorer quality. That's not a surprise giving the bit rate of the video, with AVI at least double sometimes triple the bit rate of the MPEG2 file. The problem is that standard DVD won't accept video bitrate over 9800 kbps including video. Quality obviously has to suffer.

Not necessarily -- "bit rate" is not an absolute measurement of video quality; it depends greatly on the codec being used, and you can't always compare one to the other on bit rate alone.

I guess the real question is not "whether there is a deterioration of quality", but "how we can minimize that deterioration".

Unfortunately, if you can't describe the kind of "deterioration" you're trying to minimize, there's not a lot of specifics we can recommend and we're back to throwing out random suggestions again.

Maybe you could post a frame grab that would show what kind of deterioration you're talking about?

[namsilat]

I am capturing my own home video from a Sony TRV820 camcorder, directly from what's on the tape into PC via firmware.

In terms of the quality, the conversion looks "foggy", like the "resolution" is not as good, but then I don't even know if "resolution" is the right word for it.

I did tried burning it to a DVD using TMPGEnc's DVD author, the quality looks about the same when I was viewing the individual MPEG2 files, but when I put it on the big screen TV, it actually looks not bad. I guess what you said about the PC monitor/screen could be true.

Thank you for your help :]