Song swappers could face jail time

[Vanderlow]

House OKs bill targeting users of 'peer to peer' networks

Updated: 9:32 p.m. ET Sept. 28, 2004WASHINGTON - Users of Internet "peer to peer" networks, already dodging lawsuits from the recording industry, could face up to three years in prison under a bill passed by the U.S. House of Representatives Tuesday.

The House voted to enlist the government to a greater degree in the entertainment industry's fight against those who copy its products over the Internet.

Federal agents would be directed to educate the public about copyright rules and go after those who allow others to copy their music collections through "peer to peer" networks like Kazaa and Morpheus.

Those who secretly videotape movies when they are shown in theaters would also face prison sentences of up to three years under the bill, which passed by voice vote.

"The Internet has revolutionized how Americans locate information, shop and communicate," said Texas Republican Rep. Lamar Smith, a sponsor of the bill. "We must not let new Internet technologies become a haven for criminals."

The Senate approved a similar bill in June, but differences must be reconciled before President Bush signs it into law.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6126675/

[Roundabout]

This will only accererate the push to encrypted networks such as MUTE, ANts, WASTE, and Freenet (or to more proxy servers being used with common P2P programs). This will not stop P2P, much as they'd like to say it will.

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From P2P united:

"Opponents of the bill say it would make criminals out of peer to peer (P-to-P) software users. P2P United, a lobbying group representing P-to-P vendors, advocates instead that the recording industry work with P-to-P vendors on a way to pay artists for downloads, said Adam Eisgrau, executive director of the group."

"Putting downloaders behind bars, or decimating their college funds with civil lawsuits, won't put the genie of peer-to-peer technology back in the bottle or put real money in the pockets of real artists for the literally billions of inevitable downloads that survey after survey clearly show will increase every year for the foreseeable future no matter how much Congress continues to allow entertainment conglomerates to 'offload' their responsibility to enforce their copyrights onto the American taxpayer," Eisgrau said by e-mail in response to a request for comment."
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Enlisting the feds to come after people using P2P? Why not, it's not like they have anything better to do, like stopping terrorists

[leebo]

Users of Internet "peer to peer" networks, already dodging lawsuits from the recording industry, could face up to three years in prison under a bill passed by the U.S. House of Representatives Tuesday.

Interesting. Someone should start a poll on who exactly is "dodging lawsuits". I'm not, and I don't know anyone else who is either. Can anyone spell Media brainwashing?

Also, anyone besides me find it messed up that the US government is working for the entertainment industry - and we're paying for it???

[Roundabout]

Also, anyone besides me find it messed up that the US government is working for the entertainment industry - and we're paying for it???

Not to mention overflowing prisons - well, I guess they could give early release to a few serial rapists and murderers to make room for the influx of "P2P bandits". That'll learn ya! Next time you won't be so fast to d/l that Britney Spears album! :P

And also, if this gets signed into law, there'll also be a large number of people cancelling their DSL and Cable internet access. Who needs high speed access to do e-mail and browse the web? Millions of dollars of losses for the broadband industry (the law of unintended consequences).

[Capmaster]

Users of Internet "peer to peer" networks, already dodging lawsuits from the recording industry, could face up to three years in prison under a bill passed by the U.S. House of Representatives Tuesday.

Interesting. Someone should start a poll on who exactly is "dodging lawsuits". I'm not, and I don't know anyone else who is either. Can anyone spell Media brainwashing?

Also, anyone besides me find it messed up that the US government is working for the entertainment industry - and we're paying for it???

Let's not go into the politics of this issue. Politics and Videohelp don't mix We can discuss P2P and the laws, but leave politics, bills, etc. out of the discussion.

You can, however, discuss politics to your heart's content at www.politick.org.uk

Politick is made up almost entirely of Videohelp.com members, but the discussion is limited and doesn't involve anything video-related. Activation is immediate too.

[MOVIEGEEK]

"We must not let new Internet technologies become a haven for criminals."

Give me a break!
Yeah those 14 year olds downloading music are pretty scary.

[ViRaL1]

Where the hell else are we supposed to hang out?

[Capmaster]

Where the hell else are we supposed to hang out?

[BetaMaster]

I saw a case result this week that may indicate the judiciary is on the side of P2P applications and may review any attempt to extend copyright with scrutiny.

A federal judge ruled that copyright laws that forever prevent the copying of live performances (aka bootlegs) were unconstitutional. The U.S. Constitution (the 1787 version, before the bill of rights) clearly states that a copyright has to have a limited lifetime. As such, a live performance is subject to the same copyright limitation as a recording.

It is also unlikely that judges are going to give long prison sentences to file swappers. That's just asking for an appeal.

[bazooka]

Why do they not spend more time trying to track down murderers?

[leebo]

Who do they not spend more time trying to track down murderers?

Where is the $ in that?

[bazooka]

Who do they not spend more time trying to track down murderers?

Where is the $ in that?

That is the problem. Then need to quit thinking about money.

[ViRaL1]

What is the answer to 99 out of 100 questions?

[bazooka]

What is the answer to 99 out of 100 questions?

Remove corrupt Politicians.

[ViRaL1]

Politics requires a certain level of corruption, but that's for another forum.

The correct answer is.....


MONEY!!!!

DING DING DING

[MOVIEGEEK]

What is the answer to 99 out of 100 questions?

"Go ask your mother...I'm busy watching tv"

[bazooka]

Politics requires a certain level of corruption, but that's for another forum.

The correct answer is.....


MONEY!!!!

DING DING DING

You still have to ask which is more important.

[BobK]

> Who do they not spend more time trying to track down murderers?

Just as a matter of info- there is no federal law against murder, therefore the federal government can't get involved in tracking down murderers unless there's another (federal) crime involved. The states have to do it.

[bazooka]

> Who do they not spend more time trying to track down murderers?

Just as a matter of info- there is no federal law against murder, therefore the federal government can't get involved in tracking down murderers unless there's another (federal) crime involved. The states have to do it.

True, but they have a hard enough time just trying not to lose more computers.

They are going after the wrong people.

[tag]

Just as a matter of info- there is no federal law against murder....

Yes there is. Whether the feds can prosecute simply depends upon where the murder is committed.

18 U.S.C. § 1111

Murder

(a) Murder is the unlawful killing of a human being with malice aforethought. Every murder perpetrated by poison, lying in wait, or any other kind of willful, deliberate, malicious, and premeditated killing; or committed in the perpetration of, or attempt to perpetrate, any arson, escape, murder, kidnapping, treason, espionage, sabotage, aggravated sexual abuse or sexual abuse, burglary, or robbery; or perpetrated from a premeditated design unlawfully and maliciously to effect the death of any human being other than him who is killed, is murder in the first degree.

Any other murder is murder in the second degree.

(b) Within the special maritime and territorial jurisdiction of the United States,

Whoever is guilty of murder in the first degree shall be punished by death or by imprisonment for life;

Whoever is guilty of murder in the second degree, shall be imprisoned for any term of years or for life.

[macleod]

Does anyone (and yes I am too lazy to look up real information) know what the trend has been since pay services have sprung up? The new napster and rhapsody. Be interested in the real numbers, not the fabricated ones.

[d_unbeliever]

Those who secretly videotape movies when they are shown in theaters would also face prison sentences of up to three years under the bill, which passed by voice vote. <<< i TOTALLY agree with this...but not three years. its too short. should be a lifetime sentence for selling those lousy pirated copies. a movie where you can see people standing and hear them laughing...EXECUTE those goddamn pirates...but if they will make better copies then maybe we should give them a second chance

[haloblack]

Yes there is. Whether the feds can prosecute simply depends upon where the murder is committed.

Or whether or not the victim is a federal employee.

[Skoorb]

Whether a law is passed to allow such prosecution or not doesn't mean that it will happen. Millions of people have copied movies in the past, laughing at the FBI warning that pops up first. They know full well that they won't be prosecuted. A couple here or there are prosecuted - the top dogs. You simply can't jail everybody who downloads music. You can prosecute a few, as the RIAA has done, but to me that didn't seem to do much more than take up a little space on CNN front page for a while. I do believe that it lowered sharing for a bit, but it seems to be now as strong as ever. The RIAA and any group like this can't bring hundreds of thousands of individual lawsuits.

[bazooka]

Even if it is passed,

Would they be willing to throw 60 million plus people in jail?

Swamee forsees it will not be enforced.

[MikieV]

Interesting speech posted at the Register: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2004/09/23/orlowski_interactive_keynote/

It starts well:

telling the cream of the music industry it's never had it so good, that it's been swindled by the technologists, and that it should dump DRM and embrace freedom.

and:

I can see why you've signed up to a model in which the online retailer takes four cents out of that 99 cents - so only you or the device manufacturers can afford to be retailers. That's very clever.

Too bad he believes taxation is the most viable option:

So here's a modest proposal. Stop trying to prevent file sharing, and start counting it. Lobby to raise some money from somewhere. It could be a tax, it could be a fee on your phone bill, it could be a broadband tax, it could be an hifi or iPod tax. (Germany taxes CD burners) But the figures for these are very low. The United States alone could subsidize its movie and recording industries for two dollars a week per household out of general taxation. That's everything. Permanent income for life - assuming people watch or listen to the stuff - for a rounding error.

If we compensate only a small part of what you say you're losing - say twenty per cent of your revenues, then that's $27 (£15.25) a year; 51 (28p) cents a week. For less than a bag of crisps per household per week, the record industry's piracy problem will have disappeared. Many people think that's fair - certainly in Europe! But there are deep ideological objections associated with general taxation in the USA, and few Americans would share the view that they pay for the rest of the world to get a free ride.

Mike

[Skoorb]

I don't think it's unreasonable to think that if pirating was effectively legal, because the populous was being taxed to pay for it, it would absolutely fly out of control and become infinitely prevalent.

[MikieV]

I don't think it's unreasonable to think that if pirating was effectively legal, because the populous was being taxed to pay for it, it would absolutely fly out of control and become infinitely prevalent.

I agree. If we were being taxed to provide the industry with the equivalent of 20% of their existing revenue - we would expect something in return. Freedom to copy, at the very least.

Which is why I find it odd that the speaker states "the record industry's piracy problem will have disappeared" - if such a subsidy was enacted.

Mike

[Sillyname]

Looks like it's back to entertaining yourselves with a fiddle and a jug on the front porch for all those who can't afford to buy entertainment.