Newbie question on aspect ratios

[fiveirondraw]

Nearly all of the dvd's I have purchased are in widescreen format. I have a regular 4:3 tv. I have noticed that some films have much larger top and bottom borders (letterboxing, I assume) than others. For example, my Oceans Eleven dvd has a much smaller viewing area than my kill Bill dvd.

Why is that? and, can I reduce the size of the borders during backup? I am not asking about converting to FS becuase that will chop the movie up considerably.

Any advice is appreciated!

[junkmalle]

Films are shot at different aspect ratios. Some are wider than others.

[johns0]

Any time you try and reduce the borders on wide screen film you will need to chop off some of the sides which means you will miss some of the scenes occuring on the edges.

[gshelley61]

Films are shot at different aspect ratios. Some are wider than others.

Some common aspect ratios films are produced in:

1.33:1 Classic film AR. Not widescreen.
1.66:1 Disney likes this one for family films
1.85:1 The closest one to 16:9, getting more common
2.35:1 Many films are this AR... has black bars even on a 16:9 TV
2.55:1 A little rarer, but used on some epic films. Really wide!

[junkmalle]

Many film are shot on 4:3 film and then masked to widescreen for theaters. The fullscreen releases can contain more picture than the widescreen releases because they simply don't mask the original film.

[gshelley61]

Many film are shot on 4:3 film and then masked to widescreen for theaters. The fullscreen releases can contain more picture than the widescreen releases because they simply don't mask the original film.

Correct. The other way it is done is the film (standard 4:3 35mm) is shot with a special anamorphic lens that squeezes the image vertically (filling the entire frame), then it is projected through a reverse anamorphic lens in the theater to stretch it back out.

[duhmez]

Don't forget 1.77:1 aspect!

[yoda313]

Hello,

Many film are shot on 4:3 film and then masked to widescreen for theaters. The fullscreen releases can contain more picture than the widescreen releases because they simply don't mask the original film.

Aren't you forgetting about "pan and scan"??? That's when they force the picture to one area of the screen when a full screen crop wouldn't catch the main action.

This is why many home theater fanatics buy only widescreen (even if they only have a 4:3 tv such as myself). This is because the pan and scan can be very distracting.

Kevin

[junkmalle]

Aren't you forgetting about "pan and scan"???

No, I was just pointing out that sometimes the fullscreen release has more "picture" than the wide screen release. And not passing any judgement on which was better, what the director inteded, or anything else.

[guns1inger]

There is also 2.20, which Kubrick used for 2001, as well as 2.40

[Gurm]

There's a big difference between Pan & Scan and "unmasked" or "unmatted" 4:3.

Pan & Scan is a method used when the original source material is not 4:3. It is quite terrible, although my parents would disagree with me ("we want the whole screen to be filled!" they cry).

However, in some cases the original material has "more" at the top and bottom than was shown in the theater. In this case, the theatrical cut was made using a "matte" or "mask" (black bars over the projector hole, essentially). So in this case a fullscreen "unmatting" or "unmasking" would NOT pan & scan, it would simply be everything that was originally shot. I've seen several films like this, although none are so firmly fixed in my mind that I could name them for you at the moment.

[c_hernandez32]

Air Force One and Terminator 2 are masked to be widescreen. I believe LotR is too. But I heard that if you buy the full screen version you can see power lines. The camera was placed so in the widescreen version, you can't see them.

I thought that 1.85 wasn't an actually film ratio, but rather that of HDTV.

Thanks gshelley61 for listing the Disney ratio, my Disney LDs have this ratio, but the new Aladdin DVD says that it is presented in its theatrical presentation of 1.85 (16x9). I guess I see more in the LD.

[guns1inger]

Or less - you can make it taller by chopping off the sides.

One to watch is Dr. Strangelove. Parts of it were shot in 1.33 and parts in 1.66. It just shifts from AR to AR throughout.

[gshelley61]

I thought that 1.85 wasn't an actually film ratio, but rather that of HDTV.

HDTV is 1.78:1 (1280x720p or 1920x1080i)

[Gurm]

Air Force One and Terminator 2 are masked to be widescreen.

But are the fullscreen versions unmasked, or P&S? Can you (or anyone else) give me a definitive DVD that is unmasked in fullscreen? I'd love to have it as an example to show people clips/stills.

I believe LotR is too. But I heard that if you buy the full screen version you can see power lines. The camera was placed so in the widescreen version, you can't see them.

Wouldn't surprise me, I'll have to rent the fullscreen version and see. It is one of the first films to be shot entirely digitally, so anything is possible.

Thanks gshelley61 for listing the Disney ratio, my Disney LDs have this ratio, but the new Aladdin DVD says that it is presented in its theatrical presentation of 1.85 (16x9). I guess I see more in the LD.

The Aladdin DVD was created from the iMax master reels, not the original theatrical reels. The LD was created from the theatrical reels. Hence the discrepancy.

[gshelley61]

I have the new Aladdin DVD. It is 1.66:1 AR. There are very thin pillarbox borders on my 16:9 HDTV. The Disney box may say something like "enhanced for 16:9 televisons", which just means the disc is encoded with the 16:9 flag and the image is anamorphic (squeezed vertically), requiring stretching during playback.

[junkmalle]

Rabbit Proof Fence is unmasked in the full screen version. Actually, both the widescreen and fullscreen versions are pan-and-scan of the original film frame:

[guns1inger]

T2 would be. Cameron is a great fan of shooting this way so that his TV releases wouldn't be butchered. The Abyss was as well.

[Gurm]

Junkmalle,

That's an excellent example of unmasking... but it's still P&S. LOL.

Actually, one (or both) of the Princess Bride releases was like this - extra at the top & bottom in the fullscreen, but STILL Pan&Scan.

So was... Finding Nemo, come to think of it. Disney made a big deal about how they had unmasked it for fullscreen, but they still ended up cutting off the sides.

[duhmez]

Cutting off the sides ion cases like that keeps the main focus larger on screen, which is why im sure the croped it some.

[c_hernandez32]

I actually haven't watched the Aladdin DVD yet, but I probably wouldn't have seen the difference since I only have a 4:3 TV. I need to see, but I'm thinking I won't see it if the pillarbars fall in the overscan area. I've looked through my DVDs and most say that they are either enhanced for HDTVs or 1.85AR. What does that mean when I get an HDTV?

[duhmez]

If you have full screen movie it will have big black bars on the sides on your widescreen HDTV. Anamorphic will mlook "normal" but each movie will have different amount of culling andletterboxing.