what is going wrong when I encode wav to ac3

[virendra]

I am trying to build a audio cd with 5.1 dolby surround sound.

I did following steps.

I have Magix Sequoia in which i opened my wav file and copied it to bal 5 channels and then bounced to get 6 mono wav files, one for each channel.These files were playing perfect music on my computer.(with 48khz and 224bps)

Then I used Hypercube transcoder to make a single ac3 file

but that file does not play the original music but some harsh and cracking sounds only

when burnt to cd my dvd player also plays same harsh and cracks but no music

Then I used dolby soft encode and created a ac3.wav file but again had same problem and now nero does not accept it to burn on cd

Then I tried this same thing with surcode dts encoder and same results, nero does not accept

what mistake i am doing??

[Martyn1980]

When you are listening to the AC3 file on the DVD player, how are you listening to it?

Is it through the TV or analogue receiver, or connected to a Dolby Digital receiver using a digital cable.

Try playing the file on the comp using WinDVD6 to see if it has worked first

[virendra]

I have a Yamaha Dolby Digital A/V receiver with digital cable (fibre optic) and samsung e138a dvd player

when i listen to it in computer there is no music at all. The same way it plays in my dvd player

does ac3.wav file not accepted by nero to burn on a cd?

[Martyn1980]

Hmmm, usually the static is only audible if its connected analogue.

Im not aware that Hypercube can encode to AC3, ive used to decode AC3 and DTS to wavs, but never the other way round.

Are you burning the file onto a CD as an ac3 file or an AC3 Wav, it has to be an AC3 Wav so that the CD/DVD player knows to send it through to the decoder.

Im not overly familiar with this as ive only done it once, purely for experimental reasons.
Encode the 5 waves in Sonic Soft Encode, as a 448k AC3. Then encode the AC3 into an AC3 Wav using BeSweet, now burn with Nero as Audio CD.

This worked for me, maybe theres a quicker way, but i have only done it once.

Nero should accept the DTS files if you have the right version of Surcode, make sure its Surcode DTS CD, and not the DVD version as the audio will be sampled wrong.

Let me know if any of this isnt clear

[virendra]

Thanks for your help mate, I will try this and come back

yet I do not mind burning the music on a dvd but then it has to be associated to some fake video and track changing becomes difficult. So the preference is cd and not a dvd

[virendra]

well, mate , i did that and had the same results like earlier, no music and only hissing and cracking sound

I did make the ac3.wav file with besweet and tried to run on pc only, not burnt on a cd. Do you feel after burning as audio cd it will play with correct sound?

[Martyn1980]

Try opening the AC3 Wav with VLC media player, thats the only program that ive managed to get to play raw AC3 and DTS Wav's.

If it works on that them burn it on a CD, or if you have a CD-RW then use that.

[virendra]

Hey friend, even in vlc media player the file plays only with cracks and harsh sound and no music at all.

Am I doing some mistake in besweet usage?

When I use vegas to render the file it converts to 5.1 ac3 perfectly , till then the music is fine.

If i use soft encode or hypercube or besweet further to convert into wav then this problem occurs.

I have tried to do it on two different computers just to make sure that possible the programmes are not properly installed on one but the results are the same on both the computers.

The ac3 file made by vegas is perfect and plays well if written on a dvd, but my aim is to use a cd instead of dvd and it should play on set top dvd player that is not happening

[Martyn1980]

Im not sure whats going wrong.

Let me know what you do for Besweet and ill see if you've missed something.

If your receiver can decode DTS you could use that, i find that simpler, just input the 6 wavs into SurcodeDTS CD and click Enode, ive had less problems with DTS than i have with AC3.

The AC3 file will be play perfect because the software player recognises it as an AC3 file and decodes it, But with an AC3-Wav the player thinks its a normal Wav and plays it like that, so thats why you get the static.
Its the same thing on a CD, on a DVD the DVD player knows its an AC3 file, but on a CD it doesn't so it just plays the raw digital data, thats why it has to be encassed in a proper Wav header.

Try the DTS thing to see if that works, and use VLC Player to play the DTS-Wav and let me know your Besweet settings and ill see what i can do.

[virendra]

I will explain what I do because after reading my own post I felt that it is too confusing.

I have used Sequoia to record a music file from cassatte to pc in wav format (48 khz and 192 kbps)

then I processed the file into Sequoia to give me 6 mono files output to use as source for making a dolby digital 5.1 surround sound file (or dts also will do but 5.1 surround sound is my requirement)

uptill now the music is ok

Now i used these 6 files in sonic soft encoder to give me ac3 file which plays well

now when I try to burn this file on cd Nero does not recognise and accept for burning

so I tried to make a ac3.wav file through besweet and i got a ac3.wav file but if played in computer there is no music at all only harsh cracks. So something wrong is happening in besweet conversion.

If I use earlier ac3 file to burn with fake video on dvd it plays well as 5.1 surroung sound file on my yamaha digital receiver.

But my aim is cd and not dvd and if the same dvd format is burnt on cd as data file my samsung dvd player does not recognise it and gives no disk alarm

so my dream is to convert all my cassatte and audio cds to 5.1 surround format on cds and run on my dvd player ( my dvd player plays audio cd/mp3/wma/ cdr/cdrw/dvd-r/dvd-rw/dvd+r/dvd+rw/dvdrom)

so dvd player should be able to read it in cd , if the ac3 file is burnt as data with nero my dvd player does not recognise it. It has to be cda or mp3 or wma so i want a readable file which my dvd and yamaha both should read as 5.1 surround ( let it be cda, wav, mp3 or wma)

sorry if i am bothering too much to you and i appreciate your patience to read my posts

[mats.hogberg]

dvd player plays audio cd/mp3/wma/

5.1 AC3 on CD? I seriously doubt it...

now when I try to burn this file on cd Nero does not recognise and accept for burning

Nero shouldn't give a damn what you write to CD, as long as you write it as DATA - You're probably trying to burn it as audio CD, right?

so I tried to make a ac3.wav

What is a ac3 wav? I think the only thing you've acieved is disguising the ac3 as a wav. The computer (and everything else) is trying to interpret this ac3 data as a wav, resulting in - you guessed it! - just "harsh cracks".
Do a music DVD insead, muxing your working 5.1 ac3 with a still mpeg. There are some applications for this if you're not up to authoring it yourself. Here's one of the latest additions

/Mats

[Martyn1980]

Its entirely possible Mats, it just fidly, i personally prefer using DTS as my system is set up for it now, but getting all the filters and codecs together can be annoying.

AC3 and DTS-Wav's are simply AC3 and DTS files, but with a wav header so the Authoring software and CD/DVD player think its a standard Redbook CD, the problem with that is most things will play it as a Wav and output the digital data, which as you said Mats, is why you get the noise.

VLC Player will play them as they are though.

If you put these AC3 Wav on a CD and connect the DVD/CD player to a DD receiver with a Digital cable, you can have a 5.1 CD.

virendra, im struggling getting my system set up for an AC3-Wav, i think im missing some filters as Hypercube and BeSweet are crashing on me, I'll sort later, but for now can you put the 6Mono wav's into SurcodeDTS-CD and encode it to a DTS-CD and open it with VLC Player to see if it works.

[mats.hogberg]

I thought Virendra was trying to make it play on his standalone - I might be wrong tho, as I've not read every letter of this thread...

/Mats

[Martyn1980]

He is, but if it works with VLC Player, then the file and header are ok, and then it should be OK to burn to a CD.

[mats.hogberg]

No matter what VLC plays, will his stand alone play it like VLC, or will it interpret it as a regular data or audio CD?
I believe the chances for a standalone playing a "Music DVD" or even "Music Mini-DVD" (if CD is what it must be) are much better than for AC3 CD...

/Mats

[Martyn1980]

Both my DVD players can read AC3 and DTS CD's the only one that doesn't is the X-Box, but that doesn't read any CDR's anyway.
Even my old Phillips CD Player can play them.

DTS CD's sold quite well commercially, so there must be a high compatibility rate for them, AC3 CD's are a bit different, but the principal is the same.

I recommend he go with the DTS-CD, rather than an AC3 one, as Surcode is a professional bit of Software specifically designed for that purpose, while BeSweet is OK, but is more a jack of all trades.

Im assuming your receiver can decode DTS Virendra, is that right?

[virendra]

Yes, My dvd player and the a/v receiver both support DTS.

But I think I missed something, the surcode dts i got looks like for dvd, that is the name it is carrying , surcode dvd dts

Is the problem there? i mean is it not supporting cd? or the encoding details i select are too much for a cd( 48khz and 320kbps)

and even soft encode for dolby digital is also giving wrong results

do you suggest that the crackling output i should burn on a dvd r/w and check? if yes i can try and come back later

[Martyn1980]

Surcode DVD DTS, is only for DVD's as it creates DTS streams with 48kh audio, get the DTS-CD version, as you will have to create DTS-Wavs with 44.1khz audio for Nero to take it as an audio CD.
Also the CD version automatically assigns a bitrate of 1411kbps as this is the same as audio cd's

To be honest, its piss easy, all you have to do is put the right wav for the right channel and click encode, there are no options to set as it does it itself, when this is done check it in VLC, and if everythings ok, then burn it as an audio CD with Nero, everything should be ok i hope.

Yeah, you could try burning some samples on a CD/DVD-RW to see if they sound ok.

[virendra]

well, there is some funny developement.

suddenly my besweet thing started working , I do not why and I do not know why it was not working either.

I transfered some music from cassatte to computer using Sequoia with 48000khz and 16 bit and tried to use besweet to convert to ac3 and it worked and instead of earlier harsh sounds and cracks it gave me perfect music output , played well on computer and not tried on any cd and dvd.

But the problem is it is giving me only 2 channel output even after setting to 5.1

so i used sony vegas to convert wav files to 5.1 ac3 file . it did well and i burnt them on dvd and my yamaha receiver shows it to be dolby digital 5.1 sound also. The problem is the output of surround speakers is as low as no output, and I am not able to increase that in vegas so that i can get a balanced output.

Next funny thing is my sonic foundry soft encode started crashing which was not happening earlier. although it was damaging my music by cracks atleast it was running fine till the encode was complete. Now it gives error for the exe file and shuts down after almost 30 seconds but in that period it gives ouput that plays well in computer but 2 channels only

All funny things!!!

Is it possible to make besweet to give 5.1 ac3 output from a 2 channel stereo wav file?

Is there any way to increase sound level of individual channel in 5.1 surround setup of sony vegas?

[Martyn1980]

Im getting rather confused now here.

Do you have your music as 6 seperate wav's, and can you listen to the surround channel wav to check the level.

If you only have a Stereo wav, no software can make it into a proper 5.1 AC3

Im not sure your understanding, if the output is music, then its wrong, the outputed AC3-Wav has to be the harsh clicks and sounds, if its music then its just an AC3 file that will play on a DVD but not on a CD..

No its not possible to make a 5.1 AC3 from a Stereo Wav in BeSweet or any other program.

I haven't used Sony Vegas, but if you have the wav's for the surround channels then you should be able to increase them in any wav editor.

[guns1inger]

Martyn1980

It is entirely possible to make a stereo wav into 5.1 channel ac3 using vegas. Granted, you will not have much in the way of seperation and panning, but you can easily get sound coming out of every channel. You can even do it with a mono track, if you so desire.

virendra

In Vegas, make sure your project is set to 5.1 AC3 audio. On each audio track in the editor you should see a small box with a red dot in the middle. This represents the percieved source of that track in the sound field. All you have to do is move the dot around to change the position and relative volume of the track.

If you haven't already, I would suggest breaking your tracks in Vegas into individual tracks to give you individual control. When I have found myself doing similar work, I break the track down into left and right, a combined centre, a copy of centre for the lfe, and a vocal stripped version for the rears. I use Analog-X's Vocal Remover in sound forge to create this.

The output will never be a sophisicated as a 5.1 mix done from scratch, but the results can be pleasing to the ear if done carefully. I have yet to make any of these mixes into CDs, but I have downloaded a number of DTS and AC3 wavs and created CDs, and the results can be great.

Good luck

[Martyn1980]

Never said it wasn't possible, I said you couldn't make a proper 5.1 mix, my DPL2 receiver can do as good if not better, so ive personally never saw the point.

I wouldn't expect results as good as you hear on DTS-CD's that you've downloaded, as the majority of them are from retail DTS-CD's or mixes form Quadrophonic sources

guns1inger, when Vegas is done, what does it output, is it an AC3 file or an AC3 wav, cause i think thats the part hes going wrong?

[virendra]

In vegas I am not able to find out that red dot. is it near the wavwform or somewhere near the volume meter?

Can u pl post a screen shot?

I have vegas4 and vegas5 both, also i have steinberg nuendo but it is too difficult for me to use.

when i use vegas and select audio properties as 5.1 channel and play the file the bar shows only fr, fl sr and sl channels playing and centre and lfe do not show anything

when I play ac3.wav made by besweet in 5.1 it never plays in my computer or even 5.1 wav also does not play but only yesterday the ac3 when played , played properly for the first time but when tried to burn on dvd using sonic foundry 5.1 dvd burner it said that it is only 2 channel so i could not use besweet to make a 5.1 ac3.

If i have 6 mono files how to use besweet to make a single 5.1 ac3 file?

[Cornucopia]

Let me see if this might clarify things:

For those who didn't realize this before--You can make a Standard-ish type of AudioCD that has been given an AC3 or DTS file as source. It just has to be header-ed as a WAV, and padded to fit the standard 1.378Mbps rate that a standard Redbook LPCM stereo WAV would normally take. This means that you DON'T get a "bitrate savings", so if you have more than 74/80 minutes of material, even if you use AC3 at 224kbps, it will still be too much for the CD.

**Note: You MUST use the 44100 sampling rate!! (and I really don't understand why the 1st poster started off capping at 48k? in this respect, but then I also don't understand the fidelity expected when using a cassette as a source) Sorry, no offense.

Other things to mention:
If one is already using SoftEncode, just go straight from 6 WAV's to 1 AC3-WAV file, no need for a middleman std. AC3 file (unless for backup purposes).
PLAYBACK---the only way you will hear anything other than static is if you hook up the Digital output of your settop player (be it CD or DVD) to the digital input of your Receiver/Decoder----AND---You must have the ouput setting in the "straight PCM" or "passthrough" mode. This allows the bitstream to not be interpreted or fiddled with in any way by the player, just decoded by the decoder.

Of course, if you are using a DVD settop to play the discs, it comes as no suprise that you must have a player that is capable of reading CD-R/W's!

The type of disc you're trying to get is certainly do-able (I have successfully done this myself), but I do question the method somewhat. (Like, where did that 192kbps WAVE come from? And why use BeSweet when you've already got access to SoftEncode?)

My scenario would be like this:
1. Cap/Xfer the material into the app of Choice. Use either 16bit + 44100Hz, or 24bit + 88200/96000/176400/192000Hz and downconvert later.
2. Export as 6 individual LPCM mono wave files @ 16bit + 44100Hz.
3. Open SoftEncode and Add to appropriate position slots (shouldn't have to mess with volume, as it should already be pre-mixed at the export stage). Set output to AC3-WAV, 44100Hz sample, HIGHESTbitrate available (remember you're not really doing this for bitrate savings anyway), adjust DolbySurround Downmix setting as appropriate & DRC levels, etc. Export.
4. Open up your CD burner app of Choice, add the AC3-WAV file (it shouldn't give you any difficulty there), burn as Standard Redbook AudioCD.
5. Play in Player, through dig output-->Decoder. Done!

HTH,
Scott

[Martyn1980]

Cant help you with the Vegas stuff, hopefully guns1inger will.

What you need to remember is if the ac3 file is plays on your PC, then it is wrong, you want the harsh crackling and the static.

If have 6 mono waves, what you need to do is Open up Sonic Foundry Soft Encode (If its still working) and go to File, Batch Convert, Add.
Then put each mono wav into the correct channel.
Then Click Settings, Set the Data Rate as 448kbps, change the Sample Rate to 44.1khz and set the Audio Coding as 3/2.

Then click on OK twice.

When Sonic has finished encoding you should have an AC3 file which will play fine in most things like PowerDVD, but wont on a CD Player or DVD Player.

Now download BeSure as this makes things easier when using BeSweet for AC3/DTS CD's.
Setup BeSure in the Files And Folder so it points to BeSweet.exe and to Surcode DTS-CD.
Click on Input Files and Add the AC3 from Sonic Soft
Go to Besweet settings then click AC3-CD, the click on GO.

If everything is installed in BeSweet then this will produce an 44.1khz AC3-Wav which you can burn using Nero as an AudioCD.

Remember the output by BeSweet/BeSure wont be the music it will just be the digital noise.

. 8)

[Cornucopia]

Yes, from the point at which you leave 6 LPCM waves, to the point at which it sounds like music coming out of your an AC3/DTS decoder, any test of the soundfile will yield what amount to STATIC. That is normal for this purpose.

Scott

[Martyn1980]

Cornucopia, Started writing this before your post came up, I agree with what you say, but were in Sonic Encode can you output to an AC3-Wav, thats were I thought BeSweet was needed.

Cheers

[Cornucopia]

Yup, I just tested it with Soft Encode. It works going direct from WAV to AC3-WAV.

Scott

[Martyn1980]

Which version do you have? I dont have the option to save as anything other than a AC3 file, this would make things much simpler in future.

Though I prefer doing DTS-CD's as the process is much simpler and sounds much better.

[Cornucopia]

Just 1.0. (5.1 version)

If I load WAVEs into it, I have in the Save dialog:
1. Dolby Digital (*.ac3)
2. Dolby Digital Wave (*.wav)
3. Project File (.acp)
4. Microsoft PCM Wave (*.wav)

In the Encode dialog:
1. Dolby Digital (*.ac3)
2. Dolby Digital Wave (*.wav)

HTH,
Scott