looking into DVDs

[CNT]

I am still "new" to the world of video editing. I have Pinnacle Studio Deluxe. I capture VHS (yeah, analog) to AVI in DV format. It is pretty much the best capturing I can do. Then created some VCD, came out great (after some trail and errors)! Also copied back to VHS, done good job so far. Now, I have the rest of Hi8 to do (finish with VHS).

I learned that VCD only holds up to 80 mins on one CD disc. I then looked into DVD. From looking at the chart, I am puzzled if it only can hold 1-2 hours. Is that correct? I thought it could do like a 4 hours on one DVD disc? Please correct me in this part.

Next, as I looked at the softwares (from this videohelp.com site). I am little confused with what is the way to do it? I thought I was to edit the AVI and then create MPEG2 file(s) for DVD. But I see other softwares saying they can create "directly" to DVD without doing MPEG2? Does this means DVD only can do VOB and not MPEG2 ?? Can I create VOB file(s) onto the HDDs and then copy to DVD or it must be done "on the fly" when burning DVD?

Reason I am asking this is because I need to capture few more Hi8 and ran out of space on my 2x80G RAID. I thought to go buy WD 250G HDD for storage and then move the files around? OTOH, if I could create MPEG2 or VOB and those files compresses to much smaller size, then I can contiune with my 2x80G. I haven't tried anything with DVD (since I don't have a DVD burner yet).

Feed me with anything else I may need to know, even if I did read the DVD section in this site.

Thanks.

Chuck

[CNT]

http://www.pegasys-inc.com/en/product/tp.html

The above is the one I want to use for creating DVD, correct? From reading that site, they keep saying it creates MPEG for DVD, would that be MPEG1 or MPEG2? Correct me again, MPEG1 is for VCD and MPEG2 is for DVD? Also, MPEG2 is a computer file, in which must be convert to VOB when (while) burning into DVD? Am I understanding it correctly?

Chuck

[beartums]

Welcome, chuck,

DVDs can only hold about 2 hours of high quality mpeg-2 video. However, if you encode as mpeg-1 (vcd), then they can hold as much as 6 hours. It's a difference in quality. I make a lot of VCD DVDs as well as MPEG-2 DVDs. The MPEG-1 quality is perfectly fine for many applications.

As for the hard drive -- go ahead and buy the 250 GB. You're going to need it. between original AVIs, edited AVI's, various mpegs, etc, you're going to eat up space at a phenomenal clip. However, to answer your question, all of the software that creates "directly" to DVD must render it first. It will need several GB of space to create the MPEG files before it can author the dvd. I'm not sure how much, since I haven't used those in a while.

Typically, I capture to AVI, render to mpeg-2 (m2v file), and then author to DVD all on my hard drives before creating a disk image and then burnign to DVD. This allows me the highest degree of control, but a single DVD will often take 20 - 40 GB of space. I can delete the intermediate files once the DVD is fine, but the process is a real space hog. I try to keep at least 30GB of space free at all times.

Hope this helps,
e

[jimmalenko]

TMPGEnc Plus can certainly do what you need it to do. Others that are similar are mainconcept, CCE and canopus procoder.

The amount of time a DVD can hold all comes down to the bitrates used. For example:
Around 440 minutes of VCD standard MPEG can fit on a DVD (assuming 1150kbps video and 224kbps audio)
Around 220 minutes of SVCD standard MPEG can fit on a DVD (assuming 2550kbps video and 224kbps audio)
Around 120 minutes of DVD standard MPEG can fit on a DVD (assuming 4600kbps video and 448kbps audio)
(I used the bitrate calculator here)

What you do is input the time you wish to put on a DVD, select the bitrate of you audio and it tells you what bitrate to encode the video at. Assuming DVD Quality source of at least 90 minutes length, I would recommend that you use 2-Pass VBR as your encoding method, setting the average at whatever the bitrate calculator tells you, your minimum at around 2000 and your maximum at around 8000. Please note that this is very very general and you may need to "add flavour to taste" depending on your individual circumstances.

In regards to MPEG-1/2, check out What is DVD (top left) for detailed info regarding what is and isn't allowed on DVD.

I do a bit of VHS transfer and it is essentially the same thing as you want to do. My method is by no means perfect but I think you might be able to pick up on a few tips and tricks. I capture to DV AVI using scenalyzerLive. I open and edit with VirtualDub using an AVISynth script, which enables you to easily insert trim points (which define bits to cut out) and stuff like that for precise editing. I then open this modded script in TMPGEnc Plus and encode to MPEG2. I then author this MPEG2 (convert it to IFOs, BUPs and VOBs) with TMPGEnc DVD Author. I then burn with Nero.

[CNT]

Thank you VERY MUCH, beartums and jimmalenko! beartums was more "down-to-earth English" but jimmalenko explained in very clear English too.

I think the next step is to buy the WD 250G ( wow ! ) !

I did looked at scenalyzerLive about a month ago. I don't know why I turned away from it, maybe it was the $40 or something? I am looking into the TMPGEnc Plus (and I plan to pay for it, not just download for free). So far, it looks like I will be doing the following:

CAPTURE with Pinn (AVI in DV format)
EDIT with VirtualDub (only cutting out stuff, no Hollywood)
CREATE using TMPGEnc (or the Plus) for MPEG1/2
NERO the DVD

Once again, I don't have DVD burner right now, so until then I can only read about it. I am basically waiting for LiteOn to come out with 2nd gen DL burner (and want LiteOn because they include Nero 6 with it). Since my two VCD are great (about 70 minutes each disc), I think I could do a VCD standard MPEG1 for the Hi8 videos for the DVD (VHS and Hi8 are both analog to begin with). That way, I could do 4+ hours on single DVD disc. IF or when I get a digital camcorder, then I will do experiment (maybe contiune with VCD quality from digital).

The whole point of doing this is to clean up all those fat VHS cassettes taking up shelf space (and collecting dust), same for Hi8 tapes. Also, to squeeze the little recordings from varies tapes into more filling tapes, less space (and "new" tapes from old tapes to hold quality).

FWIW, I use Adobe Photoshop Elements 2.0 for my digital pictures (again, only to fix red-eyes and crop, nothing Hollywood) and have Walmart print 'em to 4x6.

Thanks again!

Chuck

ADDED : Was I supposed to use TMPGEnc DVD Author for creating DVD or TMPGEnc Plus will do same thing?

[jimmalenko]

I think the next step is to buy the WD 250G ( wow ! ) !

I don't know whether that is entirely necessary or not. I can see the points for considering DV is 13GB per hour, but you could get by with what you've got if you are going to be dealing with any less than about 5 hours of tape each time. Certainly if you want to capture a whole heap in one go, a 250GB would be handy. Have a think about how much capturing you will do before encoding it and if you are likely to need to store more than 5 hours of raw, captured material then buy the 250GB HD.

Was I supposed to use TMPGEnc DVD Author for creating DVD or TMPGEnc Plus will do same thing?

TMPGenc DVD Author (Authoring) is different to TMPGEnc Plus (Encoding).

I am basically waiting for LiteOn to come out with 2nd gen DL burner (and want LiteOn because they include Nero 6 with it).

I think Pioneer do too. I know my Pioneer came with Nero anyway.

[beartums]

ADDED : Was I supposed to use TMPGEnc DVD Author for creating DVD or TMPGEnc Plus will do same thing?

TMPGEnc DVD Author creates the VOB files and the DVD file Structure (VIDEO_TS and AUDIO_TS folders in the root directory) and saves them to disk or burns them to a DVD. Nero will do the same thing (though I'm not sure if it will reencode when necessary or if it has any menu capabilities).

Jimmalenko is correct about the hard drive. While I find that I use the space in order to keep every step of the process readily available at all times AND I might be making 4 or 5 DVDs at one time AND I try to keep a disk image of all the important DVDs I make, you can probably get by with what you have if you're a bit more frugal with space than me.

good luck

[jimmalenko]

The other point of note is that I didn't factor in having the OS on the dual 80GB drives either. If you allow, say, 20GB for OS, programs and other miscellaneous data, you are left with about 54GB, which would mean about 3 hours worth of DV capture in the one sitting. This would give you about 15GB to play with when authoring.

Probably a line ball decision to get the xtra GBs now that I have had a bit of time to think about it.

[CNT]

I have 3x80Gs. One is split into two partitions (C and D). Other two is combined with RAID 0 (E used for only video). I did moved around the AVIs to C and D to let me have more space in E (that I ran out one time lol). Yes, I like to capture all of the videos yet onto the HDDs, so that I can get going (just the way I work). While I have about 30G left each on C, D, and E, I guess buying another 250G for storage. Once after I am done with the video editing (important is that I get the family video in organized), I could either sell the 250G or keep it for my other plans for my video ministry.

I see now about TMPGEnc DVD Author and TMPGEnc Plus. So, I just use TMPGEnc Plus to encode to MPEG2 (or most likely MPEG1) and then use Nero to burn onto the DVD. Simple is that?

Chuck

[Invader Bugs]

alright, well, i dont know anything about capturing, but, when i make dvds, i convert at a pretty high bitrate, then put in the dvd, and, if it all goes over 4.7 Gig, save the disc image, then open it up in DVD Shrink, which makes it go down to 4.7 Gig, without taking out anything.

[jimmalenko]

I see now about TMPGEnc DVD Author and TMPGEnc Plus. So, I just use TMPGEnc Plus to encode to MPEG2 (or most likely MPEG1) and then use Nero to burn onto the DVD. Simple is that?

Not exactly. TMPGEnc Plus to encode to MPEG-1 or MPEG-2. Then you need TMPGEnc DVD Author to convert the MPEG(s) to IFOs, BUPs and VOB files, and possibly menus, etc. Once that is done, then burn with either TDA's inbuilt burning software or Nero.

[CNT]

Not exactly. TMPGEnc Plus to encode to MPEG-1 or MPEG-2. Then you need TMPGEnc DVD Author to convert the MPEG(s) to IFOs, BUPs and VOB files, and possibly menus, etc. Once that is done, then burn with either TDA's inbuilt burning software or Nero.

I see... with VCD, I just capture with Pinn, edit with VirtualDub, create MPEG1 with TMPGEnc, then finally use Nero to burn the VCD. Looks like with DVD, I need to do extra step with TDA in between TMPGEnc and Nero.

Chuck

[Garibaldi]

The reason that commercial dvds can have around 4 hours of high quality video is because they can be up to 9 GB big, where a dvd+/-r is only 4.7GB. A way to get around that is to lower the bitrate of the mpeg, which will reduce the file size. Granted, you will be losing some quality, but it shouldn't make too much of a difference because you are capturing from vhs which I am guessing aren't perfect anyway. What I would recommend is first looking to see if you can find a free capture tool that will capture directly to mepg2 rather than avi, so you don't have to spend time encoding. That is what I do, but I can't give you the program because it is only compatible with Dvc creator devices. If you can't find such a program, I would recommend buying TMPGENC. This is a great program for your encoding needs. I actually was able to fit 6 of my 43 minute vhs episodes on 1 disk with TMPGENC and encoding using the low resolution NTSC DVD template at 1800 bitrate. Granted that is pretty low, you could probably go between 3000 and 5000 and have good results. I haven't found any other encoders, commercial or free (except maybe for linux) that do as good a job as TMPGENC. I hope this helps.

[CNT]

The reason that commercial dvds can have around 4 hours of high quality video is because they can be up to 9 GB big, where a dvd+/-r is only 4.7GB.

Is it that commercial DVD uses Dual Layer (on single side)? DL are 8.5G.

Chuck

[Garibaldi]

Is it that commercial DVD uses Dual Layer (on single side)? DL are 8.5G.

It may, I'm not sure of the exact process that they use, I only know that they can fit more data on a medium than a home user can, because we don't have access for whatever reason to the larger mediums.

[CNT]

because we don't have access for whatever reason to the larger mediums.

All in the name of marketing... <sigh>

[freestyler]

DVD+R DL recordables are within everyone's reach, they are pricey though. Also, commercial dual layer discs are not 9 GB, they are 7.95 GB.

[hhhhbk]

if you want a liteon dual layer burner id suggest the 812 with updated firmware they should be around the $60 by now

[CNT]

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[CNT]

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