which DTS vs Dolby Digital?

[masterpp]

most movies have Dolby Digital and DTS, they are both 5.1. When I open with DVDShrink, the dolby digital is AC3 and DTS is DTS format. The DTS is twice the size of AC3. does it mean DTS is best one because of huge size?

Which one is best one?

[BJ_M]

they are both ok -- dts is better IMO

[ricky1756]

you have to be sure you can decode trhe dts or else it's worthless to you

[Shocker Milwaukee]

Despite it's size, I prefer DTS. Less compression, more clarity & volume.

[masterpp]

thanks for your answer. i know i have dts decoder for my home theater system.

[NiteLite]

The DTS is twice the size of AC3. does it mean DTS is best one because of huge size?

No, not always.
As in all audio the end results rely solely on the guy mixing the sound.
(Ex. CD's mass stamped in the USA vs. Imports from Europe, Japan, etc. No comparision)
I've heard many DolbyD tracks that sound better than DTS.
Theoretically, that shouldn't be. Dolby may argue that point.
Remember the default for DD is -4db offset which will give DTS a "louder" sound often mistaken for "better" sound.
All being said if compression is not a problem, I agree and would pick DTS.
I like the intros.
However, the compression factor does come into play often. Dual layer hopefully will nullify that.

[bugster]

most movies have Dolby Digital and DTS, they are both 5.1. When I open with DVDShrink, the dolby digital is AC3 and DTS is DTS format. The DTS is twice the size of AC3. does it mean DTS is best one because of huge size?

Which one is best one?

Just remember though, if you are going to remove one of these tracks, that DTS is optional on DVD's, but all DVD's must contain at least on audio track of the type AC3 or PCM (or Mp2 in europe). SO if you make a DVD with DTS as the only audio track, it is no longer DVD-Video compliant and some players may not play it.

[proxyx99]

Most if not all players will play it provided they are set to stream detection instead of default PCM/DD. It is a limitation of a player rather then the DVD-Video. Submenus with DD or DTS option do just that, change the stream detection pattern.

[Tearren]

I am curious about this too.

Could someone (an Audiofile maybe or someone who can tell the difference) give a specific scene in a movie where an average person could distinguish between the 2 audio types? This would help alot.

Thanks,
Tearren

[bugster]

Most if not all players will play it provided they are set to stream detection instead of default PCM/DD. It is a limitation of a player rather then the DVD-Video. Submenus with DD or DTS option do just that, change the stream detection pattern.

Maybe most will, but it helps to be aware of these issues.

BTW, if you make a DVD-video with DTS as the ONLY soundtrack, it is NOT DVD-Video standards compliant. I doubt very much you will find a commercial DVD of this nature.

[Brent212]

The DTS soundtrack in Gladiator sounds awesome. I've only seen maybe 10-15 movies on DVD with a DTS soundtrack, but I'm always impressed with them. Maybe it is just that they're louder (though I doubt it because if a DD soundtrack is too quiet I'll turn up the volume), but they sound freakin' good. Gladiator especially, though.

I always trade in some video quality for the DTS track, or I'll split the DVD to two discs. Anything to retain the DTS.

[BJ_M]

the dynamic range in dts is greater -- the sound doesnt sound as compressed (as in fm radio type compression) .. DD CAN sound very very good though ...

[NiteLite]

I am curious about this too. Could someone (an Audiofile maybe or someone who can tell the difference) give a specific scene in a movie where an average person could distinguish between the 2 audio types? This would help alot. Thanks,
Tearren

Hard to do, Tearren...you can take a DVD and play on repeat a certain scene and switch back and forth from the DD track to the DTS track but the -4db offset comes into play. You would have to raise the volume on your amp ( +4db ) to have accurate comparisions. And the amp must be accurate in it's measurements of db's. If you can find a DVD with a DD -0 db offset you can compare much better. Some DVDs are out there with DD -0db offsets.
I think "BJ_M" says it best above. "the dynamic range in dts is greater."
Therefore less sound is compressed and more nuance is added in my opinion. Again, DD argues this point saying that the compressed sound removed by DD - "is sound you cant hear anyway." Debatable to say the least.
Myself, I enjoy 5.1 analog DVD-A and SACD with no compression believing that no sound should be compressed. But, DTS and DD have their arguments as to why compression is needed and both are valid.
As capacity is extended maybe soon no compression will be needed for any audio on any format.
Gladiator does sound good in DTS and even adds the discrete 7th channel center surround a few times.
Unless you can find a DVD with DD -0 offset and be able to switch back and forth between the two formats it will be difficult to do an accurate comparison.
But that's part of the fun of audio. Your ears may vary and always go with what sounds best to you.
Enjoy.

[proxyx99]

DTS 5.1 runs at 1536 kbps and that is 3.5 times the bitrate of highest DD 5.1 encoding (448 k). Since compression technology is in both cases similar, applying here a mp3 principal to address quality issue is most appropriate. Never researched the subject in depth as it seems too obvious to have a shadow of a doubt.
Max quality level of DD 5.1 per channel would be comparable to 192 kbps mp3 and that is high enough to enjoy near CD quality sound. Sound delivered via DTS is in the range of 320 kbps (mp3) per channel and that is substantially better.
It would be close to impossible (wasteful) to deliberate the sound quality of a door slam, average conversation or car noise. DD will do more then adequate job. DVD's that aim at audiophiles and contain acoustically appealing material (music DVD's like Eagles "Hell freezes over" etc. as well as some elaborate soundtracks) really shine with DTS providing for better channel separation, dynamics, more even (complete) freq. response and clarity (no muffled sounds). Whatever we can say about mp3, anything below 160 kbps played on a decent quality stereo/home theater sounds poor. 160 kbps and higher makes the sound come alive and much closer to the original with bitrates above 320 kbps being the closest. Same lends to DTS. If you want truly CD quality sound DTS is not to be ignored (although with some movies it is an overkill, I admit).


PS. sorry forgot about Bugster's comment. As you indicated PCM/DD is the standard and not every system has DTS (not true today) capability. Having "DTS only" DVD's is possible and 100% playable (on DTS compatible systems of course) but does not conform to the standard you refer to thereby spells trouble commercially.
Out of pure curiosity I made some DTS CD's some time ago (from my music DVD's containing DTS soundtrack) and the sound is truly excellent as compared to DD 5.1. Would choose DTS every time over DD 5.1 (when it makes sense of course...). Playability was 100 % with auto stream detection on a JVC DVD standalone and DTS HT. Not a single hiccup.

[bugster]

DTS 5.1 runs at 1536 kbps and that is 3.5 times the bitrate of highest DD 5.1 encoding (448 k).

I think you will find that it is "Up to 1536kbps". In my experience, I have never found a commercial DVD with DTS that high. Its more commonly around the 700kbps mark (I don't buy music DVD's though, they may well be the exception).

Having "DTS only" DVD's is possible and 100% playable (on DTS compatible systems of course)

I am pretty sure I have seen posts on these forums where people have mad DTS only DVD's that refuse to play on a DTS capable system. I can try and dig one out if you wish.

[Soltaris]

I personally can't tell the difference in audio quality between the two formats (other than the noticable decible gain). However it is true that movie studios generally do a much better job mixing DTS soundtracks. Gladiator was mentioned above as a good example of this. For instance, near the beginning of the movie is a battle scene where the sound separation on the arrows whizzing by is incredibly immersive. Yet there are a small number of movies, such as The Ring, where I prefer the AC3 soundtrack. My recommendation is to evaluate each movie individually.

[proxyx99]

Yet there are a small number of movies, such as The Ring, where I prefer the AC3 soundtrack. My recommendation is to evaluate each movie individually.

Absolutely, as I said, I've seen no need for most (if not every) movies to switch to DTS although there may be some that will give you that extra sensation. Overall, for movies, DD 5.1 is more then adequate especially if it is done with care and knowledge. Dialog scenes, car chases etc. will do well on even much lower bitrate then what DD 5.1 offers. Nevertheless, in case of music DVD's, I like DTS for its clarity and transparency. You get full tonal range and sound imaging.
It all boils down to the question: do you really need 320 kbit sound resolution regardless of the content?

As Bugster correctly indicated, not even every DTS soundtrack is delivered at full resolution DTS is capable of. The trade-off is track size and DVD makers have to strike a balance between lenght and quality for both visual and audio content. That translates into lower bitrates for 1 or more elements. Most discs have DD 5.1 plus PCM eating up space so there's not much left for DTS (how many audio tracks do we really need?). Some movies like T2 use audio (DTS) bitrates that are close to the max though.

I am pretty sure I have seen posts on these forums where people have mad DTS only DVD's that refuse to play on a DTS capable system. I can try and dig one out if you wish.

As with anything you can always have people who may have had trouble with such discs. My first disc didn't play either until I discovered that DVD player is locked by default into PCM/DD (one or the other) and ignores DTS (that is why you have nmenus). Switching to "stream" in your DVD setup grabs DTS with ease. But you have to know that of course...

[Martyn1980]

Gladiator was mentioned above as a good example of this. For instance, near the beginning of the movie is a battle scene where the sound separation on the arrows whizzing by is incredibly immersive

Gladiator seems to be the film that converts people to DTS, it was the arrows bit that amazed me too.

Other good ones are T2 and T3, and Blade 2 has a fantastic DTS soundtrack, but i think its mostly action movies and Music where it benefits, i personally would love to see the Star wars movies in DTS, but its not likely to happen.

I have yet to see a DTS soundtrack above 768kbps, the Piano into, has 1536 but i've not saw a full release, well not a Region 2 one.

[proxyx99]

Out of pure curiosity (I'm not going to go through my discs and measure the rate) but as per this site http://www.totaldvd.net/cgi-bin/dvdreviews.php?reviewid=9730 "Blade" DTS track is at 1509 kbits, so this is not a rare occurance I assume. I guess that those movies (makers) that paid an extraordinary attention to the audio side of the experience went for the full DTS resoulution.

http://www.dtsonline.com/home&car/hometheatre/dvd-titles.php
allows you to check the DTS version and presence.

I also found a list complied by someone here: http://www.hometheaterforum.com/htforum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=19190&highlight=dtses

Anyone can watch one of these and judge for themselves.

Aybody heard of a porn movie with a full-bit DTS track

[Nilfennasion]

I've reviewed hundreds of DVD-Videos, and maybe a dozen of them had a DTS audio track on them (which says a lot about how frequently the system is used). In all but one case, I've always preferred the DTS audio. For one thing, I've always found that DTS soundtracks make much more use of the surround channels, and the surround channel output generally has much better fidelity to boot. The subwoofer is also much better-focused in a DTS track. On the special edition of X-Men, the Dolby subwoofer output during the opening scene (or any other moment where Magneto uses his power) is mostly feedback. In DTS, it becomes a tightly-focused rumble.

Of course, the problem with DTS is making the space for it. Once DVD+R DL discs become more reliable, this shouldn't be such an issue, but 700+ megabytes is a lot of space for one soundtrack on a single layer.