RITEKG03 vs. RITEKG04 media - is G04 substantially better?

[Ronaldus]

Lately I've been using Imation 1x (RITEKG03) from the stores, and so far I've been impressed by the quality -- typically defect free surfaces and no compare or playback errors. I think RITEKG04 is of equal quality, but it's typically more expensive and harder to find in stores, so I've been using 1x G03. In addition to being cheaper, I've been told slower writes are more reliable so it seemed like G03 was a better choice than G04.

I've been searching for opinions how RITEKG03 compares to RITEKG04 in terms of quality, reliability, shelf-life, BLER, etc. There is plenty of praise for RITEKG04, but hardly a word said about RITEKG03 -- and that is worrying me. It makes me wonder if that's because RITEKG03 is bad or people just prefer the faster media? I care more about reliability over speed. I have looked at the various user opinions for both types of media on this site and the comments are typically "Good media - No comments".

Lord Smurf's media opinion list ranking G03 below Optodisc below G04 is the only opinion I've seen on G03s. I've never had a bad G03 batch, but I had a bad Optodisc batch, so in my experience I rank Optodisc lower.

Could anyone please provide more data or first hand experiences using RITEKG03 compared to RITEKG04? If there is a substantive reason why G03 (primarily sold as Imation or Fuji 1x in stores) is inferior to G04 in terms of quality, durability, and potential shelf life, please let me know so I can switch.

By the way, some people mention "BLER" (a variation of Bit Error Rate, I assume). What tool can a person use to determine this on various media types? DVD Info Pro only has Speed and Read Error tests which I'm uncertain how useful the results are because every piece of media (Princo, Optodisc, CMC, Ritek, TDK) I tried in DVD Info Pro had basically the same graphs. Either I'm reading or using the tool wrong or there has to be something better. I know there's K-Probe for Lite-On drives, but I don't have a Lite-On drive.

[falberni]

I bought some G03 media from Meritline some time ago. The quality was not very good. Then I bought some Imation DVD-R and they turned out to be Ritek G03. The quality is excellent. I used to burn them with my Pioneer A04 and now with Pioneer 107D. Both burners work real good with the Imation (Ritek G03). I also got two G04 media as part of a sample pack from Supermediastore. I used the Pioneer 107D and burned one at 4x and the other at 6x. Both burns turned out equal in quality compared with the Imation (Ritek G03). I use my Lite-On combo drive to compare media. The bottom line is that there is no difference between G03 and G04, as far the write quality.

[hech54]

When I buy Ritek G03's....they are always 2x. I also only buy the totally "naked" ones that are almost see-thru. I have used Ritek G04(4x) with a white top and surprisingly had about 3 bad burns out of the 40 I purchased.
On the other hand....I have been using Princo white topped 4x(burn only at 2x) and they have worked really well....so far.

My LG 4040B doesn't seem to be very picky.

To make a long story short....when I am looking for deals on media...I always check Ritek prices first....and I really don't need 4x so G03's are my preference. And without knowing exactly WHO a manufacturer(Memorsux, Verbatim...etc etc) actually bought their blanks from that week....I tend to avoid retail/store bought media.

[Ronaldus]

I'm happy to hear a couple positive reports about G03s. I've never ordered from them before, but I checked Meritline and they are 69 cents each for 100 grade A Ritek G03 discs. I assume this is the exact same disc I'd get as store-bought Imations which work out to about 80-90 cents each in stores?

I wouldn't buy anything that I don't know in advance who the manufacturer is, but store-bought Imation and Fuji 1x have always been RITEKG03, so until that pattern is broken it's the only media I can be certain of. Well, TDK 2x is usually TKG020000, but I've seen so many scratched TDK discs and their dye is so much lighter that I shy away from it.

Several people talk about how wonderful the Ritek G04 dye is (or was), and I'm hoping the G03 dye is the same. Basically, I'm trying to verify that if you stick with quality brands like Imation or Fuji you are getting the grade A Ritek G03 which would have the same dye and manufacturing quality as a G04. Nobody has said that isn't the case, but I'd feel much better hearing a few people say that is the case.

There was a post below showing a picture of some recent RITEKG04s (the landscape overprint) with visible surface flaws. Once in a blue moon I've seen a couple such flaws on Ritek discs (both G03 and G04), but I'm hoping that any disc without these flaws is OK to use.

http://www.dvd-recordable.org/modules.php?op=modload&name=Reviews&file=index&req=showcontent&id=76

On the subject of media, I read another article at:

http://palimpsest.stanford.edu/byform/mailing-lists/amia-l/2000/03/msg00126.html

which is worrisome talking about the poor sealing of many manufactured recordable discs leading to chemical reactions which destroy the data. In my book, that is called CD or DVD rot, and it's why I get so worried using any type of media because in spite of some people or manufacturers saying discs should last 10 or 100 years, the fact they can die quickly under the right circumstances doesn't bode well. I don't live near sulfur or nitrogen factories, but who knows what other chemicals can permeate the porous disc surfaces and attack the dye. I'm worried in 2-3 years I'll find out all these discs I bought are dead -- nothing specific to Ritek G03 or G04, but simply inadequate manufacturing across the board. That's why I'd like to use different brands to spread the risk around.

[porphyra]

I bought a 50 spindle pack of RiDATA G03. Got 50 coasters.

Never bought Ritek again.

[hech54]

I bought a 50 spindle pack of RiDATA G03. Got 50 coasters.

Never bought Ritek again.

That's pretty funny.
Most people would have stopped at....say....4 or 5.

[hech54]

I'm happy to hear a couple positive reports about G03s. I've never ordered from them before, but I checked Meritline and.....

WHOA!!!!
Hold the phone. You'd better do some searches in the media section for "Meritline".

[Ronaldus]

hech54, I just searched about Meritline and Ritek media, and I saw nothing specifically about RITEKG03. What is your point? Are you saying RITEKG03 is no good no matter where you buy it or only from Meritline? Or are you referring to some other issue with Meritline that I'm not aware of?

I'm really only interested in the quality of RITEKG03 as sold by Imation and Fuji, since that's the only type I've ever tried. As far as I can tell, those are grade A Riteks and I haven't yet seen anything saying they are worse in quality than grade A RITEKG04.

[lordsmurf]

8 months ago, I'd have said G04 was better than G03 ...

Now? I'd say G03 is better than G04.

Inconsistancy in my opinion? No. Inconsistancy in the RITEK products.

Just my observations.

I just finished with RITEKG03 and G04 for a while. Not sure when I'll go back.

[Ronaldus]

Lord Smurf, thanks for the input. Hearing you say G03 is not worse than G04 is reassuring, although it's clear you're not a Ritek fan.

One interesting thing is I happened to be at an office supply retailer and where they usually had the Imation DVD media there was a giant blank space. I asked what happened and was told all the 1x Imation was recently sent back and they'd be putting out just 4x media. Since Imation 4x media is typically CMC, that eliminates Imation there.

Best Buy still had Imation 1x (Ritek G03) in overpriced 50 boxes, but it looks like the trend is away from 1x, so soon it may not be possible to get Imation or Fuji Ritek G03 stuff in stores.

I'll use up the Ritek G03 stuff I have, and then later this year I'll see about switching to another brand people like better via mail order. I just hope I don't regret sometime down the road having used Ritek G03 over G04 or TDK. I have this recurring nightmare about finding the DVD-Rs rotting en masse in a couple years.

[gmatov]

Ron,

And well you should, no one knows how long they will last.

They haven't bee around long enough to have any kind of track record.

Who told you how long they would last? The maker.

Who told you how long they would last? The magazine with a full page ad opposite the story of the latest/greatest.

100 years? G'wannnnnn. They test them for a couple months with higher temp, higher humidity, higher UV, oh, yeah, 100 years at least. But the blanks have a 7 year shelf life. Someone is fulla crap?

Well, they don't actually have to last 100 years, because everybody will buy the next gen device and transfer all their burns to the latest/greatest.

Isn't that what we do now? Tape has to go to DVD? Vinyl had to go to 8 track, 8 track had to go to cassette, cassette had to go to CD. And when they get the dilithium crystal, guaranteed someone will try to outdo that to get a new marketing medium on the shelves.

Cheers,

George

[hech54]

hech54, I just searched about Meritline and Ritek media, and I saw nothing specifically about RITEKG03. What is your point? Are you saying RITEKG03 is no good no matter where you buy it or only from Meritline? Or are you referring to some other issue with Meritline that I'm not aware of?

I'm really only interested in the quality of RITEKG03 as sold by Imation and Fuji, since that's the only type I've ever tried. As far as I can tell, those are grade A Riteks and I haven't yet seen anything saying they are worse in quality than grade A RITEKG04.

I've seen MANY angry posts about Meritline here.

[Ronaldus]

hech54, thanks for the clarification that your comments were about meritline and not Ritek media per se. When I finally go mail order I'll do more research on the companies.

gmatov, you're right about the ambiguity of how long DVD blanks may last. I've heard about shorter shelf life of unburned discs having something to do with the dye becoming inert and not reacting with the laser any more. In my mind it sounds like that is a good thing provided that on an already burned DVD it doesn't lose any of its data but the unburned dye simply becomes inert.

Over the years when I ask such questions (and unfortunately nobody has answers unless they can point me to in-depth third party media tests which I can't locate), the most common response is "who cares how long they'll last because you'll want to upgrade it all in 5 years anyway". Considering there are 13 year old VHS and 21 year old floppies (which may or may not work any more) which I have not had a chance to migrate to other media, it seems safe to say that I won't have time to migrate my DVD data when the next format comes. If a person migrated or upgraded media every 5 years then he'd be spending all his time doing that. That's why I think the media should last 10-25 years to give people a chance to migrate. 5 years can really fly if you're busy with other things.

I haven't been hit by any rot yet (except some laserdiscs), but I figure like Murphy's Law it'll hit someday when it hurts the most.

[Sam Ontario]

100 years? G'wannnnnn. They test them for a couple months with higher temp, higher humidity, higher UV, oh, yeah, 100 years at least. But the blanks have a 7 year shelf life. Someone is fulla crap?
......George

With Princo 1x and 2x, you will be extremely lucky to last over 1 year shelf life. Princo 4x which I bought by mistake (disguise under another name) apparently quality much improved, lets wait and see.

[disturbed1]

The OEM varity of Ritek media (Verbatim, TDK, Fuji, Imation) is a very high quality product, as it needs to be. These discs are different than the varity sold at online shops under the Ritek/Ridata name. The OEM product is what Ritek calls its "Super Grade", the Ritek/Ridata disc could be the same quality, but there is no gaurentee it is. It seems anymore it could be which boat your vendors shipment came over on. For the most part people have great luck with the G04 and G03 Ritek/Ridata media from online shops.

If you've had great luck with the Imation 1x but are running out of sources for it, you can always try Fuji. Their 4x in 5&10 packs are OEM'd to Taiyo Yuden, the spindels are Prodisc. Prodisc isn't a bad media, but not worth the premium you'd pay for the Fuji name.

TDK is mostly a solid performer also. Very few compliants, though a bit pricey too. For TDK's certified 2x media they use Ritek G04, TDK, and Maxell. For the 4x media it is TTG01, TTG02, Taiyo Yuden, maybe MCC.

Verbatim is too hard to figure out what you'll get. Since Verbatim is known to use CMC as an OEM, it isn't worth the hassle. But I haven't seen reports of Verbatim using CMC for it's 4x media, usually Taiyo Yuden and MCC.

Maxell discs can be had for a decent price at your local Walmart, and Apple brand discs are a good price too.

I'd try a sample pack from an online retailer to see what works best for your budget, burners, and players, and go from there.

A BLER machine would cost more than a truck load of Lite On DVD Burners.

[Ronaldus]

disturbed1, thanks for the input. It makes me feel better to hear that Imation/Fuji Ritek G03 discs are "Super Grade" and likely to be of very good quality -- as I have observed so far. What I was after when posting these questions was to make sure I wasn't shooting myself in the foot buying 1x RITEKG03s instead of 4x RITEKG04s given that G03s are a bit cheaper and I believe slower burns are more reliable.

It sounds like I'm probably not hurting myself in terms of shelf life, reliability, or durability by choosing G03 over G04.

By the way, are there any web pages that discuss the various grades of DVDs, such as Ritek "Super Grade"? I've heard of "Grade A" and "Grade B" as a general concept, but I've never heard of "Super Grade".

I didn't realize a BLER required a special expensive machine. I thought it was a piece of software anyone could run. So far all I've seen are speed and read error tests from DVD Info Pro used by people to judge media quality, but I have yet to see any differences between media types when I run either of those tests, so I'm curious how useful DVD Info Pro is in this area. Maybe my cheapo BTC 16x DVD-ROM drive masks all the problems?

[gmatov]

Ron,

Very good question. Where can I find a page that will tell me which is "Grade A" and which is "Grade D". I doubt you will find such a page even to rebut the smurf and others who say X is crap, Y is good.

Hell, you don't even know who made the disk!!

All you know is the dies are made by Machine Shop X and sold to whoever wishes to stamp disks. All the mfg data is already stamped into the plastic, it is metallized, dyed, packaged, sold to you as TY, CMC, Ritek, etc. If anyone so desired he could take the dies to Bangladesh to stamp, the data stamped would still read TY and the dye strat whatever is the TY strategy. It is stamped into the top layer of the disk, no more chance of changing that than the ATIP.

They don't stamp them and burn each as a TY or whatever. It is stamped in, and if they want to use walnut husk dye, it will still read as a TY, although a "garbage" TY, and, jeez, the color sure is funny, or, if they burn well, wow, the walnut TYs are the VERY best.

But there are adherents in this as well as everything else in life. "Mine is the absolute best, and if you choose to use anything else, you are an estupido who will not listen to his betters.

Buy what works for you, and plays in YOUR standalones. What good is the highest priced media if it doesn't work for you? What, you gonna give it away?

Cheers,

George

[disturbed1]

Ronaldus,

Every PC setup is different. I don't like Ritek media personally, but I know for a fact that many people have fantastic results with the media.

Since it works for you, I'd continue to use it until otherwise.

The G04 shouldn't be anydifferent in terms of quality compared to the G03. But how your burner uses it is another story. It's one of those try and see things.

With KProbe, there is little difference between the Taiyo Yuden and the Prodisc that I burn. Both look great. Sure the TY has lower numbers, but is it enough to make a difference?

It's actually good that all of your error reports look alike. It means all of your burns are near the same quality.

Since you don't mind the ~1hour burn times, you get to save some money to boot.

Super Grade, Grade this, Grade that blah blah blah

All that it means, is every product is put through QA for dye quality, and appearance.

Riteks "Super Grade" is the top of the line disc that Ritek can produce. Dye quality is perfect as is apperance (to their spec). Since this is the best they can do, the OEM's (big $$$) get those discs.

The "Grade A" discs can have the same quality dye tests, but may have bumps on the sides, or bit too much glue in the Hub. Or a ever so slight less quality dye with great apperance. These get the silver/matte finish. These still fall with in Riteks high quality specs, they could be just as good, or slightly less as good as the OEM "Super Grade". Most users won't notice, or even care about the difference, if they can spot it.

The crap that fails in one way or another can be sold as overprints. The overprints can contain bad discs and good discs. I'm sure Ritek doesn't check every disc, so it will be mixed. These discs are sold as lower grade media to the distributors, how it's marketed to the end user is up to the shop, but they are sold in bulk as less quality at less of a price.

You can call Advanced Media INC, and speak with either a Sales Rep, or a Technician. If they'll talk to you or not is another stroy. It took me 2 months to get any solid answers.

What gmatov said is the best advice, what works for you is the best.

Don't fix what isn't broke.