Spain's 9-11

[g_shocker182]

Pretty wicked stuff. 190 dead.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A48577-2004Mar11.html


Thoughts?

[Solarjetman]

Maybe it will get people to realize there still is a big threat out there and we can't just sit back and relax. Its not going to just go away. We need to do something about it.

After all, it could have just as easily been England, Australia, USA, Italy, Denmark, Poland, Japan or any number of countires.

[Conquest10]

After all, it could have just as easily been England, Australia, USA, Italy, Denmark, Poland, Japan or any number of countires.

Not really, if it is who I think was involved, Spain is the only target.

[g_shocker182]

They said the ETA usually avoided mass-killings.

How do you win support with mass-murder?

[indolikaa]

My thoughts?

Compromise is a lost art. In an absence of compromise, mankind will always resort to force. If you are open-minded enough to look at both sides of any argument (and believe me, I am not capable in many situations) I think you'll find that every situation is the result of an inability to compromise.

That being said, I equate terrorism with Crimes Against Humanity. Wars are fought by soldiers, not by innocent civilians riding the train to work.

How do you win support with mass murder? I guess that depends on the audience you're appealing to. I have acquaintances (I can't call them friends, given their beliefs) that defend terrorism as a political weapon.

If ETA did it, and Spain can prove it, I say they eliminate the problem once and for all.

EDIT: We're listening to the local news and they are reporting this was done by Al-Qaeda to punish Spain for helping the US...

[rallynavvie]

Well of course every news agency in the US is going to say Al-Qaeda did it, it validates us just a little more for some of questionable decisions our country made. Let Spain and the UN investigate this, I don't want our biased nose in this investigation. I for one value what other countries have to say.

Now if you'll excuse me I'm waiting to hear back from some friends I have in Spain

[VCDHunter]

They said the ETA usually avoided mass-killings.

How do you win support with mass-murder?

They ? ETA blew up about 180 people a few years ago, so they ain't that good at avoiding em.

Kinda like when the IRA deny responsibility for a bombing then fess up a few months later. Bastards. As for winning support by mass murder, you could ask pretty much any world leader how its done.

[RabidDog]

It is rumoured (and not just by loon-boxs) that Putin and Nkvd planted the initial Bombs in russia that Gtd him his first win, then blamed it on Chechen seperatists. Spain has a very high arabic/north african muslim population, whos to say it wasnt both groups??ETA/ALQ

[freestyler]

Spain's 3-11 actually.

[teegee420]

Well of course every news agency in the US is going to say Al-Qaeda did it, it validates us just a little more for some of questionable decisions our country made. Let Spain and the UN investigate this, I don't want our biased nose in this investigation. I for one value what other countries have to say.

Agreed. Us Americans need to stay out of this one and let the Spaniards draw their own conclusions. Hope all is well with your pals, rallynavvie.

[MrMungus]

Pretty wicked stuff. 190 dead.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A48577-2004Mar11.html


Thoughts?

And occurred 911 days after 9/11 on the 2.5 year anniversary of 9/11...or something.

[teegee420]

I guess it's official now. CNN is reporting that Al Qaeda has claimed responsibility for the attack.

[wulf109]

If there's a war on terrorism,where are all the dead terrorists? If we were serious dead bodies would be turning up all over the world courtesy of the CIA. We didn't didn't win WWII by playing by the rules,we won by being more ruthless than the enemy. Terrorism is not a legal matter,it's not a civil crime. It's genocide or at least it will be if we go on treating it as a matter for law enforcement.

[MOVIEGEEK]

There is no negotiating with terrorists,you simply do as the Israeli Massod does...you kill them.

My prayers go to the victims family.

[northcat_8]

not that I should...but I will toss in my 2 cents....

Sometimes there is no compromise with some people. There have been several situations in my own experiences where no amount of conversation, compromise, or apologies were going to change the resolution method of a situation. In those situations it becomes very apparent very quickly that it is either fight or take a beating.

Terrorists are along those lines. These people have a deep religious belief that what they are doing is right. There will be no peaceful resolution to this matter.

That being said, I do think we need to stay out of this and let spain handle it the way they see fit. I would think that this act by al qaeda would only draw the people of Spain closer to the US view point.

If there's a war on terrorism,where are all the dead terrorists? If we were serious dead bodies would be turning up all over the world courtesy of the CIA. We didn't didn't win WWII by playing by the rules,we won by being more ruthless than the enemy.

You have to realize that in 2004 we live in "politically correct" world...you can't just say go over and kill them...holy cow...what kind of image are you trying to present??? This is the USA, where you can't even call a black man black, a white man white, or a chinese man chinese, hell it is 2 months worth of National news over seeing Janet Jackson's tit on public TV...this is not barbaria...we are not cavemen...you cannot just say "lets go kill them"....we have peaceful solutions where people can see their wrongs without us destroying thier self confidense or self image they can think about their wrongs and promise to not do it again, while maintaining their self worth...and we believe them because they seem so sincere....

You know...if your neighbor is an axe murder, and you know he is an axe murderer...if you don't do something about it, and one night he kills you...then that is your fault...

...I personally would like to see President Bush just come out and say..."alright, f**k it, we are going over there with the intent to exterminate every single one of those bastards, there isn't going to be any news interviews with them, or a giant parade when we bring the "prisoner" in, there won't be a trial...when they are in the crosshairs they are going to be dead...and if you don't like it then f**k you, pick up a history book and learn how this country was made."

I also think they should drop the "surgical" approach, I don't want to see innocent people get killed anymore than anyone else...but then again...if they don't want dead they shouldn't be around those people. I know a guy who did 8 years in prison because he was passed out in the backseat of a car when 2 of his friends robbed a convience store, still passed out when the police finally got the car stopped...no difference...guilty by association.

But that probably wouldn't win him any re-election votes.

Where are the Boondock Saints when you need them?

[energy80s]

There is no negotiating with terrorists,you simply do as the Israeli Massod does...you kill them.

My prayers go to the victims family.

Of course you could do what we did here with our terrorists and promote Osama to Education Minister!

[Tiny71]

Totally agree on the Boondock Saints comment.

I think you will begin to see more of this real soon, especially if these looney 'judges' here in the U.S.A. keep imposing thier way on the general public.

It is just a matter of time, and its not an 'if' its a 'when', before you see a few judges and a few 'public figures' get popped.

And I for one, am all for it.


My prayers are allways with the U.S.A.'s allies, and I say Spain should get any help or assistence they ask for.

[pacmania_2001]

If there's a war on terrorism,where are all the dead terrorists? If we were serious dead bodies would be turning up all over the world courtesy of the CIA. We didn't didn't win WWII by playing by the rules,we won by being more ruthless than the enemy. Terrorism is not a legal matter,it's not a civil crime. It's genocide or at least it will be if we go on treating it as a matter for law enforcement.

Firstly the war on terrorism isn't a conventional war as such, if that were the case we'd be doing much better at it.

As for dead terrorists I think you'll find alot of them showing up courtesy of agencies like the CIA and Mossad however they are only the lower level henchmen and don't make the news.

[Will Hay]

God bless, RIP.

[northcat_8]

...however they are only the lower level henchmen and don't make the news.

Kind of makes me wonder...how many are just shot or killed by some other type of action (covert operations) and we just don't know about it...

...I am on a need to know basis and I don't really need to know...

[indolikaa]

Kind of makes me wonder...how many are just shot or killed by some other type of action (covert operations) and we just don't know about it...

Given the current judicial climate in the US? I would think this is the modus operandi for such agencies.

All the better, in my opinion.

[gmatov]

wulf, in particular,

We did indeed win WWII by playing by the rules. They are known as the Geneva Conventions.

You may do this, you may not do that, in war, you do something underhanded, you will be tried as a "War Criminal" if we win. Why do you think we hung so many NAZI wheels,and so many Japanese generals after WWII. They did what we now would call "atrocities".

We have changed this under the present admin to mean if you fight back, you will be considered as a "War Criminal".

We already have tried, in the Hague, the elected leader of Yugoslavia. The trial is, so far as I know, still underway.

My Lai, in Viet Nam, was a "War Crime". Lt. Calley was tried for it. That was a victory for the US, to admit that a US soldier went overboard and was punished for it. It didn't bring back any innocent lives, but they were, in a sense, avenged.

Kids who have nothing but the bang-bang, Navy Seals type shoot-em-up movies to base anything on lap this stuff up. You'd be better off to watch a few of the old WWII movies, even the Korean era movies. You might find they don't go in and mow 'em all down.

Wha'd the guy say, the religious right kind of general? "Kill 'em all and let God sort 'em out.".

Yeah, right.

Cheers,

George

[pacmania_2001]

Kids who have nothing but the bang-bang, Navy Seals type shoot-em-up movies to base anything on lap this stuff up. You'd be better off to watch a few of the old WWII movies, even the Korean era movies. You might find they don't go in and mow 'em all down.

Anyone who uses a movie for a historical teaching is mostly going to be an idiot no matter what war.

As for international law such as the Geneva convention they are like a tiger without teeth, useless if it really came down to it.

[Will Hay]

As for international law such as the Geneva convention they are like a tiger without teeth, useless if it really came down to it.

That sounds like the UN to me as a whole, not so much the G.Covention in itself, but what do I know?
Will

[pacmania_2001]

That's my opinion as well.

I think it was Tom Clancy who said it best in the introduction to his Rainbow Six book about the UN and how useless it is. If only I could find the book I'd quote the passage.

[VCDHunter]

As for international law such as the Geneva convention they are like a tiger without teeth, useless if it really came down to it.

That sounds like the UN to me as a whole, not so much the G.Covention in itself, but what do I know?
Will

The UN is a joke and we pay little more than lip service to the Geneva Convention nowadays.

@george - we certainly didn't win WWII by "playing by the rules" as it were - we fought hard and dirty but we won and nobody was in the mood to spoil the party afterwards.

[rallynavvie]

Kids who have nothing but the bang-bang, Navy Seals type shoot-em-up movies to base anything on lap this stuff up. You'd be better off to watch a few of the old WWII movies, even the Korean era movies. You might find they don't go in and mow 'em all down.

Anyone who uses a movie for a historical teaching is mostly going to be an idiot no matter what war.

Actually I don't think we should trust our own schooling in regards to history either. Whatever country you're in your history books are going to paint a slightly candy-coated version of history in your favor. It's only later, like in college should you choose to go that far with it, that you learn about other things that went on in wars. For example we all knew about the holocaust in Nazi Germany but none of us were ever really told about what almost ended up happening in Japan at the war's end which would have been equally (or an even greater) loss of life and culture.

[gmatov]

None of the civilians knew about the Holocaust during the war. US Gov., and probably Allies Govs. did, but not for dissemination.

US Gov did studies to learn best way to get nourishment into survivors of the camps, CC Camps as well as our own prisoners of war in Asia.

Noone here, nor in the rest of the world was prepared for photos of survivors, adults as 50 pounds of skin and bones.

The Victors DO get to write the history books, and we did, yet in some countries there is still denial that it ever happened.

What is it that almost happened in Japan that would have benn an equal or even worse loss of life and culture. This must be a hell of a secret. Without a hint, I couldn't even begin to guess.

True, the UN is a toothless tiger. It has been used as a tool to invade countries that it should not have, yet fails to act in such places as Rwanda, and the Congo, and other places where genocide actually has been practiced, not as wiping out the Jewish race, but wiping out the tribe over the hill, there.

Of course if there is nothing to be gained, minerals, oil, whatever, let 'em kill each other off, who cares?

Gotta go to work now. Be interesting to see where this goes.

Cheers,

George

[Conquest10]

While we're on this, I wonder why Vietnam is not discussed in US schools.

[indolikaa]

Vietnam not discussed in schools?!

When did this change? It was 4-week material when I was in high school...

@George,

What about what Japan did to Manchuria during World War II? There's a happy little part of the world that the 'Crimes Against Humanity' camp completely ignored.