Faster Encoding with TMPGENC

[davekone]

I love this software, I can't find anything that produces the quality this software does in a hardware box. Problem is it takes forever to encode 1 hour of DV. Back in the day when I started with TMP software on my PIII 733, then upgraded to a P4 2ghz the time to encode got cut in half. I was expecting more!

So I'm asking out there who has encoded DV to mpeg2 VBR 2 pass using TMPGENC and how long does it take. What hardware do you have? Thinking of upgrading again, but when encoding takes 72 hours for 1 hour of DV cutting encoding time in half would not make my happy.

Is there some hardware out there that can encode as well as TMP but a lot faster?

I play my DVDs on a HDTV set, and I'm pretty picky about the quality. I do notice that a regular TV set hides a lot of the poor encoding quality issues, but on a HDTV set they are magnified 10 fold.

David

[D_Knife]

TMPEG should be capable of at least 1:1 encoding at that speed CPU
probably more like 2:1 speed for DV
the best question is - what settings and filters are you using
you mentioned the words "picky about quality"

[tigerman8u]

Try Mainconcept.

[ghosty6]

I love this software, I can't find anything that produces the quality this software does in a hardware box.
David

You obviously have not used Canopus Procoder, with this I could not tell the difference between the original and the encoded MPG and I have tried them all.

[Perro Grande]

I always tell people:

You can select any two from the following list:

* Good
* Fast
* Cheap

TMPG is Good and Cheap, but not fast.

Main Concept is Good and Fast, but not cheap.


and there are a bunch that are Fast and Cheap, but not good!
and, a few that are none of the above!

***

But seriously --

As with all things, it is a tradeoff. The more picky you are, the more time it is going to take to produce results you like -- even beyond just throwing raw bitrate at the solution.

Experimentation is a long process, however, even with the fastest of transcoders. I frequently have stuff running overnight...

One of the most useful tools has been my "clip" DVD. I captured some raw clips from various movies --- different styles and types of scenes, coloration, action/motion, etc. I make the clip long enough to show what I need to show, but short enough to transcode in a reasonable amount of time. I try to pick things that will "challenge" an mpeg transcoder.

I then take this collection of clips and encode each one several times, varying the settings. I give each one a unique and descriptive name, and note exactly what I've done settings-wise for that clip. I then author all the clips onto a DVD with descriptive menus. I can take this around, look at it on different TV's, get different opinions, etc.

Your mileage may vary, but this has really helped get a sense for what the various settings do, how they affect the output, and what "look" I like.

[bf6239]

I use TMPG, CCE and VFAPI, that way you are using the best of both worlds, TMPG GUI and Filters and CCE speed . Use TMPG to create your project. Convert the project using VFAPI. Then use the AVI from VFAPI in CCE. I get great results using this method

[jaxxboss]

My wife calls me good fast and cheap, but thats not always a good thing being all three.

[davekone]

I love this software, I can't find anything that produces the quality this software does in a hardware box.
David

You obviously have not used Canopus Procoder, with this I could not tell the difference between the original and the encoded MPG and I have tried them all.

Ok, well duh! This is why I posted my question to get other peoples feedback. I will look into Canopus Procoder. Can you give me an idea of speed on your 3.2ghz system?

David

[davekone]

TMPEG should be capable of at least 1:1 encoding at that speed CPU
probably more like 2:1 speed for DV
the best question is - what settings and filters are you using
you mentioned the words "picky about quality"

Filters: I normally De-interlace my DV captures so my TV will automatically go into 480p mode when the DVD is played. I set Motion Search to the slowest setting. Usually that’s about it. I have never gotten 1:1 or 2:1 encoding an hour of DV. If I knew I could get a Dual Xeon machine and encode in two hours 1 hour of DV I'd order it now. I have a lot a DV tapes to capture and convert and the time is getting to me.

David

[davekone]

Try Mainconcept.

Thanks, after reading about ProCoder and how slow it is when used at the highest quality I jumped over to check out Main Concept. Looks good on paper, but I'll have to give it a try 1st.

thanks
David

[zworg2]

I have just started using Main Concept.

Although my source is not the same as yours ( I am processing AVI's) i have experienced a very significant improvement in speed, with no discernable quality lose, if anything it is better than TMPGEnc.

I had one file that TMPGEnc quoted it would take 14 hours to re-encode, and that was with all the settings to make it as fast as possible.

Main Concept completed same job using a higher CBR in a little under 3 hours.

Man do i like Main Concept!!

Zworg2

[davekone]

I have just started using Main Concept.

Although my source is not the same as yours ( I am processing AVI's) i have experienced a very significant improvement in speed, with no discernable quality lose, if anything it is better than TMPGEnc.

I had one file that TMPGEnc quoted it would take 14 hours to re-encode, and that was with all the settings to make it as fast as possible.

Main Concept completed same job using a higher CBR in a little under 3 hours.

Man do i like Main Concept!!

Zworg2

Sounds good to me and found out I can get it for $49 since I own Adobe Premier! WOW!

[bugster]

Filters: I normally De-interlace my DV captures so my TV will automatically go into 480p mode when the DVD is played. I set Motion Search to the slowest setting. Usually that’s about it. I have never gotten 1:1 or 2:1 encoding an hour of DV. If I knew I could get a Dual Xeon machine and encode in two hours 1 hour of DV I'd order it now. I have a lot a DV tapes to capture and convert and the time is getting to me.

David

In most cases, especially DV, De-interlacing is not really worth the effort. So your TV can display 480p, but your source material is 480i. Remember also it is a TRUE interlaced source. That is, each field is from a different point in time, unlike FILM capped from a TV source where each field is simply 1/2 of one frame. De-interlacing will only introduce artifacts. Try encoding with the interlaced source to an interlaced mpeg.

Motion search precision. If you can tell the difference between Highest and High in Tmpgenc then you are a better man than I am. Try encoding with motion search precision set to High and again the same clip at highest and see if you can tell the difference. Most people can't.

but when encoding takes 72 hours for 1 hour of DV cutting encoding time in half would not make my happy

I can encode an hour of DV to DVD compliant mpeg-2 in less than 3 hours using CQ and less than 6 hours using 2-pass VBR and motion search high. I usually use CQ mode and motion search normal and this brings the time down even more. This is on a P4 2.8 with 512Mb's of Ram.

Also, check the settings advanced tab ad be absolutley sure you have no unnecessary filters enabled. Noise reduction in TmpGenc is Verrrrrrry slow.

[davekone]

Filters: I normally De-interlace my DV captures so my TV will automatically go into 480p mode when the DVD is played. I set Motion Search to the slowest setting. Usually that’s about it. I have never gotten 1:1 or 2:1 encoding an hour of DV. If I knew I could get a Dual Xeon machine and encode in two hours 1 hour of DV I'd order it now. I have a lot a DV tapes to capture and convert and the time is getting to me.

David

In most cases, especially DV, De-interlacing is not really worth the effort. So your TV can display 480p, but your source material is 480i. Remember also it is a TRUE interlaced source. That is, each field is from a different point in time, unlike FILM capped from a TV source where each field is simply 1/2 of one frame. De-interlacing will only introduce artifacts. Try encoding with the interlaced source to an interlaced mpeg.

Motion search precision. If you can tell the difference between Highest and High in Tmpgenc then you are a better man than I am. Try encoding with motion search precision set to High and again the same clip at highest and see if you can tell the difference. Most people can't.

but when encoding takes 72 hours for 1 hour of DV cutting encoding time in half would not make my happy

I can encode an hour of DV to DVD compliant mpeg-2 in less than 3 hours using CQ and less than 6 hours using 2-pass VBR and motion search high. I usually use CQ mode and motion search normal and this brings the time down even more. This is on a P4 2.8 with 512Mb's of Ram.

Also, check the settings advanced tab ad be absolutley sure you have no unnecessary filters enabled. Noise reduction in TmpGenc is Verrrrrrry slow.

Thanks for the post I will try what you suggested. Maybe I'm just flipping to many quality switches on without analyzing the results.

[energy80s]

You should also have seen a much greater increase in speed when you upgraded to a 2GHz processor. When I upgraded from an AMD K6-500 to an XP1600 I had a seven times increase in encoding speed. Also, don't de-interlace. All video material is designed to be watched on an interlaced display (that's why it doesn't look good on PC screens) as it was shot with an interlaced camera. As your TV will be interlaced, keep your MPEG 2 encodes interlaced too.

[davekone]

You should also have seen a much greater increase in speed when you upgraded to a 2GHz processor. When I upgraded from an AMD K6-500 to an XP1600 I had a seven times increase in encoding speed. Also, don't de-interlace. All video material is designed to be watched on an interlaced display (that's why it doesn't look good on PC screens) as it was shot with an interlaced camera. As your TV will be interlaced, keep your MPEG 2 encodes interlaced too.

My TV set is not interlaced, well it can display both progressive scane and interlaced. Deinterlaced video on my HDTV set looks much much better than interlaced encoded videos. Its cleaner, and clearer by far.

[energy80s]

HDTV is a totally different kettle of fish compared with standard broadcast television. Anything designed for a standard 21" tv will look shite on a large screen HD set. Sorry, but you can't suddenly increase picture resolution x4 and expect good results. The only way to get good HDTV pictures is to source them in a high definition format to begin with. As no existing video format is capable of this, your only option is film.

[davekone]

HDTV is a totally different kettle of fish compared with standard broadcast television. Anything designed for a standard 21" tv will look shite on a large screen HD set. Sorry, but you can't suddenly increase picture resolution x4 and expect good results. The only way to get good HDTV pictures is to source them in a high definition format to begin with. As no existing video format is capable of this, your only option is film.

There are plenty of DV cams recently available that are true 16:9 format.

While my current cam is not 16:9 the video deinterlaced looks light years better on my HDTV set (black bars on both sides)..??

[eas]

Are you using the SSE2 instructions the Pentium 4 supports? I'm not sure how much faster this is compared to the SSE instructions on the PIII, but Intel invested some transistors in supporting them for instructions like these, and the author of TMPGenc put effort into implementing code to use them, so its worth a shot. It may be that if you just broght over your settings from your PIII this isn't enabled.

[davekone]

Are you using the SSE2 instructions the Pentium 4 supports? I'm not sure how much faster this is compared to the SSE instructions on the PIII, but Intel invested some transistors in supporting them for instructions like these, and the author of TMPGenc put effort into implementing code to use them, so its worth a shot. It may be that if you just broght over your settings from your PIII this isn't enabled.

Brought over settings from my PIII? I didnt swap hard drives from one machine to the next, all software on the new P4 was installed fresh on a new drive.

Also I've used the demo version of Main Concept and using deinterlacing and maxing out some quality settings I'm encoding 1 hour of DV in 1.5 hours. Very happy with it and the quality. I'm ready to switch.

David