Can a 2 Hr 8mm tape convert to 1 DVD/maintain exact quality?

[billtvt]

I have a load of 8mm tapes I am converting to DVD. Most are about 2 hours in length, would like to put on a single DVD, BUT I want to maintain same exact quality as original.
I have been using Mediastudio Pro 7.0, and using a VBR setting of 8k or more, with the advanced options set for maximum quality. I have been getting resultant MPEG2 files of 7GB or more, so I've just been spliiting them and limiting to 1 hour each, so I need 2 DVD's for the conversion.

Appreciate any pointers here-

[ronnylov]

Try lowering your bitrate to 4 mbit/s average and it will fit on one disc. Use the half-D1 resolution (352x576 PAL or 352x480 NTSC) and you'll get good quality at this bitrate. A higher bitrate makes a bigger file so the only way to fit more time at the same filesize is to lower the bitrate. You can also compress your audio to either dolby digital (ac3) or mpeg audio (mp2).

A lower resolution may give better results at lower bitrate because there are less pixels to encode and then you get more bits per pixel. And your source may not have more resolution than half-D1 (unless it is Hi8 or digital8). If your source is interlaced (it probably is interlaced if it is from a video camera) then encode as interlaced mpeg2. Make sure you set correct field order because otherwise the playback will be jumpy when watched on TV.

[rhegedus]

Hi8/VHS to DVD: which bitrate do you recommend

[billtvt]

Ronnie- so what you are saying if I understand correctly, is that lowering the bitrate will not degrade the quality from the original?
I'd rather err on the conservative side so if there is more likelihood of a better quality output at the settings I am using versus what you recommend, I'd stick with it - even if I only get 1 hour on DVD-

Problem is that it takes alot of time and effort to play around with all the different setting variables, and then to try and view side by side outputs and discern the differences. I guess what I'm saying is that I will take whatever path assures the closest to original quality and worry afterwards about how much fits on 1 dvd.

[rhegedus]

There comes a point when increasing the bit-rate further does not result in any improvement. Consequently, you have to find the bitrate at which the output starts to lose quality. You can improve the result by using VBR encoding, but you will have to experiment to find this point.

I'd set up a batch encode in TMPGEnc of a 5 min section of the captured tape using different bitrates starting at 4000kbps and increasing in increments of 500kbps upto 8000kbps (overkill). You can then fine tune the final encode as you wish. If you want to increase the amount you can fit on a DVD then try reducing the audio bitrate - you probably wouldn't notice any difference.

Bear in mind that if you are planning to watch the DVD on TV, you probably won't notice small quality loss since TVs are not as good as PC monitors.

[billtvt]

Very good pointers, and I will experiment with them.

Thanks Rob, appreciate the time and comments

[handyguy]

I would suggest just using a dvd recorder as 8mm isn't very high resolution.

I connect my Sony Hi8 to my panasonic e30 dvd recorder & get a perfect copy. Just push record & thats it.

[macleod]

handyguy's suggestion is the way to go. I have done both software conversions with a capture card and using the panny E30. Hands down, the E30 has it for simplicity and picture quality. It also has a TBS built in, which will take care of issues that you will find using a cap card.

Go on ebay and look for a used one (unless you have to have a hard drive). They are in the $200-$300 range.

[rhegedus]

I've got a Pioneer DVR-5100, but I wouldn't chose to do my VHS conversons with it.

For starters, you only get the simplest of editing tools with DVRs - what if you want to fad to or from black, or merge two scenes together?

Plus, you have no control over the encoding itself - the DVR choses the the video and audio bitrate for you. What if you want to try VBR?

DVR is the lazy and seldom the best way to copy to DVD.

[TheFamilyMan]

With my experience converting 8mm home movies to DVD, I could not perserve "exact" quality and get 2 hours on a DVD. I capture/encode using 352/480 and use TMPGEnc CQ 90 at 8000/2000 and its noise filters set to 30/1/30. If I use less bit rate I see artifacts on my TV. Even with these settings, I can see artifacts in very high motion scenes. The major issue with home movies IMHO is that hand held filming introduces lots of motion not found in hollywood type productions, and this eats bit rate. Also, noise filtering is absolutely required. Your picture may look clean, but if you can watch it "pixel by pixel" you will see lots of color flicker that also eats bit rate. Good noise filters, like the ones in TMPGEnc will remove this and preserve (and enhance) the picture quality. As said lots of times here, experimentation is required.

[chaseru]

Also, noise filtering is absolutely required.

Amen. Unless you clean up the video noise, the resulting transfer to DVD will likely be disappointing, even if you only put one hour of video on one DVD.

[macleod]

What y'all are saying is sorta true. The hardware records lack all of those special features. To do that you need software, however, my point is that a CAPTURE CARD vs a hardware recorder is that the hardware recorder will win hands down.

Post production (i.e TMPGENC, TMPGENC DVD Author, etc.) stuff can be used after your source is captured. I have fiddled with the panny's settings and get perfect 1:1 copies of my source, to stip stuff, merge, cut, add audio tracks, etc, I do have to use other applications.

Also the panny already has a few noise adjusters built in PLUS a TBC.

[zilog_jones]

Try lowering your bitrate to 4 mbit/s average and it will fit on one disc. Use the half-D1 resolution (352x576 PAL or 352x480 NTSC) and you'll get good quality at this bitrate. A higher bitrate makes a bigger file so the only way to fit more time at the same filesize is to lower the bitrate. You can also compress your audio to either dolby digital (ac3) or mpeg audio (mp2).

A lower resolution may give better results at lower bitrate because there are less pixels to encode and then you get more bits per pixel. And your source may not have more resolution than half-D1 (unless it is Hi8 or digital8). If your source is interlaced (it probably is interlaced if it is from a video camera) then encode as interlaced mpeg2. Make sure you set correct field order because otherwise the playback will be jumpy when watched on TV.

I certainly agree with this guy about using the half-D1 resolution if they're from 8mm tapes - even Hi-8 tapes won't have be anywhere near the full 720x480/576. Technically, using this lower resolution at half the bitrate as you were with the full res should be the same quality... *technically*.

Any normal lame CRT TV isn't going to be able display 720 vertical lines anyway!

[SnoopyDad]

In response to earlier comment about using a standalone DVD recorder - granted this is the lazy way, but if you record the tape to DVD +/- RW in the video mode, not VR, you can then finalize the disk, take that disc and using DVD Decrypter, rip the files, either as seperate vobs or one entire clip, import this into video editing software. From there, it can be cleaned up, menus and transitions can be added, etc. From my experience so far, using a Sansui, it also eliminates OOS issues that can occur when capp'g analog source.

Granted the actual bitrate is unknown, but based on the amount of footage recorded at each respective recording speed, the bitrate can be approximated.

This can also provide a more stable back-up to the tape and authored DVD in the event that either are damaged - you won't need to re-record/re-cap the original footage since it could be saved on the DVDRW for future use.

I've also used this method for cap'g TV shows and has worked pretty well so far.