Getting new burner: Pioneer 109 or Plextor 716A?

[Ladd]

I'm considering upgrading the 2X LG burner that came with my G4 MDD.

I'm torn between getting an OEM Pioneer 109 from NewEgg for $67 delivered or a Plextor 716A pull from Surplus Computer for $88 delivered (or new retail box for $110 delivered from NewEgg).

Plextor has better Mac support and has had a great reputation for years; Pioneer drives are more ubiquitous so there's a larger community to draw from when asking for advice/help.

Any deal-breaker/maker news I need to know about?

And of course, generic or specific advice always appreciated.

[terryj]

A brand NEW drive for $67 (black bezel)/$65 ( beige bezel)
with ONE YEAR FACTORY WARRANTY,
vs. a pulled, uncertified USED drive for $88.....

hmm, let me think on that for a minute....;-p

Seriously:

1.Apple support for Pioneer is SET IN STONE.
Will Tiger support Pioneer drives in August?
Does rain come from clouds?

2. Because of this getting specific hardware support
( problems burning certain types of media, drive funny noises, cabling, etc.)
are gonna be more easily to get
answers for ---why be in the minority?

3. Dealbreaker: $65+$4=$69 shipped fed ex ground
and its brand spankin' new. $69 for new, $88 for old, used,
non -certified non-refurbished.

[Ladd]

Thanks for taking the time to offer advice. You bring up some good points.

>1.Apple support for Pioneer is SET IN STONE.
>Will Tiger support Pioneer drives in August?

Yes, Apple has used Pioneer drives in the past. However, it is my understanding that even with OSX 10.3.8, there is yet no native support for the Pioneer 109 drive. You can use it to read and burn via Toast, but if you wish to use any of the iApps (iTunes, iDVD, etc.), you have to use PatchBurn.

Of course, you have to use PatchBurn on the Plextor to use the iApps also, so both drives have the same limitation in this regard. I don't see either drive having any advantage over the other here.




>Will either drive work with Tiger?

Probably -- if not with current firmware then with updated firmware. But realistically, I guess I shouldn't bet the farm.

Plextor's latest Mac OS X firmware update was Feb 24, 2005. There are also recent updates for the previous two generations of drives.

The last Mac firmware updater released by Pioneer was for the 105, dated February 2003. I see no Mac firmware updater for the 106, 107, 108 nor the current 109.

Yes, I could find someone with a PC and have them update the firmware, or probably pick up a third-party hack that works with OS X, but a company that keeps up to date with their firmware revisions for current as well as older drives has to get an extra brownie point in the "how long will I be able to use my drive" category. This resonates with me as it appears difficult to purchase DVD-R media that will work with my two-year-old Apple-installed 2X drive (brand: HL-DT-ST, model GCA-4020B).





> 2. Because of this getting specific hardware support
> (problems burning certain types of media, drive funny
> noises, cabling, etc.) are gonna be more easily to get
> answers for ---why be in the minority?

I'll give you this one -- but then I already did in my original posting.

I'm curious if there are fewer postings about Plextor drives because fewer people own them due to higher initial purchase price, or because, as with owning and supporting Macs vs. PCs, they simply work better so you don't hear from people with problems.




> 3. Dealbreaker: $65+$4=$69 shipped fed ex ground
> and its brand spankin' new. $69 for new, $88 for old,
> used, non -certified non-refurbished.

If I can believe the retailer (which isn't always a given), the pulled drive isn't old, has never been used, is guaranteed to work properly and has eight months left on the factory warranty which is transferable. No mention of if the drive has been driven only on Sundays.

So yes, there are several pros/cons regarding the new OEM from NewEgg for $67 delivered vs the theoretically unused $88 pull.

NewEgg does sell a refurbished Plextor for $85.80 delivered and a new, retail box version for $99.50 delivered (after $30 mail-in rebate). So I guess my quest for getting best value for the dollar would be better served by comparing those two prices to the Pioneer OEM for $67.

Again, thanks for taking the time to write and please do so again!

[Frobozz]

Plextor, I believe, make better drives than Pioneer. I see that Plextor has a $30 rebate on the retail version of the PX-716A and PX-712A. This means you can get the retail 716 from New Egg for about $100 after rebate.

I like that Plextor makes Mac versions of its firmware updates and publishes a list of tested media.

[xxiangg]

From surplus web site, the Plextor 716A is gone. I am a happy owner
of a Plextor 712A. I only use quality media, (TY or RICHOJPN) and
don't have any complain. If I will bug another DVD burner, Plextor
will be on the top of my list, even if it is a little expensive.

[Ladd]

I see that Plextor has a $30 rebate on the retail version of the PX-716A and PX-712A

Yup, I had included the $30 rebate already -- so the NewEgg $110 delivered price quoted reflects the $30 off.

I've done a bit more looking around and I've found the retail-box Plextor drive from "ToolsPCS.com" for $93 delivered (after rebate) and "maincomp.com" for $90 delivered (after rebate). Never heard of these guys, not that that means much, and I've bought lots of stuff from NewEgg so at least they are a known quantity.

All things being equal (which they never are), I lean towards the Plextor drive. But a 35-60% upcharge to go from Pioneer 109 OEM to Plextor 716A Retail impells me to request input from folks who have gone down this path before me.

[redwudz]

I installed a Pioneer 106 to my G4 and never any problems. Don't know much about the 109. Perhaps you should visit some Mac specific sites for some further advice.

[sjk]

After you have the new drive I bet you'd soon forget you paid ~$10 more to get it from a known, reliable vendor. The price 35-60% diff between the Pioneer and Plextor, well, that may take a bit longer to forget.

If you don't need the new drive immediately and haven't been looking at either one for long you might want to monitor price changes for a bit before purchasing, at least until the $30 Plextor rebate is about to expire.

I'd think Tiger will (eventually) have native support for the Pioneer? That*might influence me to buy the Pioneer rather than rely on PatchBurn "forever" with the Plextor. Without that (and cost) influence, I'd favor the Plextor.

[willrob]

I've read that there should be another OSX update (to 10.3.9) coming very soon. It might have 109 support. Amazon.com is already taking pre-orders for Tiger, with a $30 rebate that expires May 31. So the rumors of an April release for Tiger are probably accurate. So if 10.3.9 doesn't support the 109, Tiger probably will. I don't understand Apple's attitude: why don't they support the manufactueres (like Plexor) that are obvioulsy supporting Macs?

>>I'd think Tiger will (eventually) have native support for the Pioneer? That might influence me to buy the Pioneer rather than rely on PatchBurn "forever" with the Plextor. Without that (and cost) influence, I'd favor the Plextor.<<

[sjk]

I don't understand Apple's attitude: why don't they support the manufactueres (like Plexor) that are obvioulsy supporting Macs?

What makes it worse is that it seems intentional. I mean, how could people involved in that decision making process not be aware of Plextor's Mac support?

True or not, the most obvious answer to your question is probably that Apple wants to sell more bundled SuperDrives.

[terryj]

Thanks for taking the time to offer advice. You bring up some good points.

>1.Apple support for Pioneer is SET IN STONE.
>Will Tiger support Pioneer drives in August?

Yes, Apple has used Pioneer drives in the past. However, it is my understanding that even with OSX 10.3.8, there is yet no native support for the Pioneer 109 drive. You can use it to read and burn via Toast, but if you wish to use any of the iApps (iTunes, iDVD, etc.), you have to use PatchBurn.

Of course, you have to use PatchBurn on the Plextor to use the iApps also, so both drives have the same limitation in this regard. I don't see either drive having any advantage over the other here.

And also Dual Layer support wasn't even thought of when the last Major update, 10.35 was released of OS X Panther. 10.36, .37, and .38 all address specific problems relating to java, Firewire, security, etc.,
but only the MAJOR releases ( ie., the ones you can get on Factory disc)
contain updated driver support.

so in reality, for the Mac, Apple is ON TIME as far as MAJOR releases of OS goes, for internal drive support. The -107 was just released when 10.35 was, so makes sense that the -107 is supported, but the -108 and -109 is not.

>Will either drive work with Tiger?

Probably -- if not with current firmware then with updated firmware. But realistically, I guess I shouldn't bet the farm.

Plextor's latest Mac OS X firmware update was Feb 24, 2005. There are also recent updates for the previous two generations of drives.

The last Mac firmware updater released by Pioneer was for the 105, dated February 2003. I see no Mac firmware updater for the 106, 107, 108 nor the current 109.

You must not read very well, or skip over the obvious.
I just reported on my post on this forum
<see "Pioneer Drives drop in Price">
that my -109, bought on March 9th, 2005, came with firmware 1.17,
which was just released Feb.21st, 2005 according to Pioneer's own website.

[quote]

> 2. Because of this getting specific hardware support
> (problems burning certain types of media, drive funny
> noises, cabling, etc.) are gonna be more easily to get
> answers for ---why be in the minority?

I'll give you this one -- but then I already did in my original posting.

I'm curious if there are fewer postings about Plextor drives because fewer people own them due to higher initial purchase price, or because, as with owning and supporting Macs vs. PCs, they simply work better so you don't hear from people with problems.

[quote]

apple and oranges, glass half full, glass half empty.
Or could be they don't use them except for the occasional
one off backup/burn, or they are savvy enough to READ the forums
first, and find the answer to their questions ( lurkers).
*shrugs*

> 3. Dealbreaker: $65+$4=$69 shipped fed ex ground
> and its brand spankin' new. $69 for new, $88 for old,
> used, non -certified non-refurbished.

If I can believe the retailer (which isn't always a given), the pulled drive isn't old, has never been used, is guaranteed to work properly and has eight months left on the factory warranty which is transferable. No mention of if the drive has been driven only on Sundays.

So yes, there are several pros/cons regarding the new OEM from NewEgg for $67 delivered vs the theoretically unused $88 pull.

NewEgg does sell a refurbished Plextor for $85.80 delivered and a new, retail box version for $99.50 delivered (after $30 mail-in rebate). So I guess my quest for getting best value for the dollar would be better served by comparing those two prices to the Pioneer OEM for $67.

Again, thanks for taking the time to write and please do so again!

your welcome.

[terryj]

[quote="willrob"]I've read that there should be another OSX update (to 10.3.9) coming very soon. It might have 109 support. Amazon.com is already taking pre-orders for Tiger, with a $30 rebate that expires May 31. So the rumors of an April release for Tiger are probably accurate. So if 10.3.9 doesn't support the 109, Tiger probably will. I don't understand Apple's attitude: why don't they support the manufactueres (like Plexor) that are obvioulsy supporting Macs?[/quote}

As in any business, they support FIRST those who are their suppliers of product to make their product.
Sony, Pioneer, Hitachi, IBM, Maxtor, Matush!ta, etc. are suppliers
and thus get prefferred treatment over third party vendors
like macally, griffin, Belkin, plextor, etc.

it's just business.
*shrugs*
If Plextor were to cut their prices to supply s. Jobs with
internal drives for macs, then the issue would be moot.
They ( Plextor) must prefer to be a third party vendor,
( because then they also get PC sales) so they stick with what
works for them, kinda like LaCie.

[Ladd]

You must not read very well, or skip over the obvious.
I just reported on my post on this forum
<see "Pioneer Drives drop in Price">
that my -109, bought on March 9th, 2005, came with firmware 1.17,
which was just released Feb.21st, 2005 according to Pioneer's own website.

My concern re: firmware updaters has nothing to do whatsoever with the firmware version the drive comes with now. It has everything to do with how I will update the drive with firmware updates to come.

I think we can agree that firmware updates generally add features and/or increase media compatibility. This is important to me so the drive I purchase now doesn't become unusable as compatible media becomes hard to find a few years from now, as has happened with the burner Apple supplied me two years ago.

I have no problems that my 2X drive won't write at 4X/8X/16 speed on 4X/8X/16 media, but since the drive won't even load the half-dozen brands of media I've tried, because the firmware of the drive simply doesn't recognize the media, I'm kinda S.O.L.

Attempting to predict the future by reviewing the past performance of manufacturers, I note that the Plextor site has recent Mac OS X firmware updaters for their current DVD burners AND the previous two generations of burners. This offers a clue that a burner purchased today *might* be supported via Mac OS X updaters and kept as current as possible for at least a couple of years.

However on the Pioneer site, there are no Mac OS X firmware updaters posted for the current or even the last multiple generations of burners. This offers a clue that a burner purchased today may possibly never have an OS X firmware updater to allow the drive to recognize the media available two or three years from now.

Some might consider this an academic discussion because they replace their entire computer every couple of years, or they will simply upgrade the drive to something newer and better.

Such might be the case for me, but I wish it to be my choice, arrived at for reasons that are good for me, not thrust upon me just because the manufacturers of equipment I purchase stopped thinking about it the moment it was out the door.

Will I pay $20 more for a drive that seems to offer similar features and may possibly have better support in the future? Maybe -- I've been using and buying Macs for decades, so I've been "overpaying" for perceived value for quite some time.

Tiger will be out soon and that might change a lot of things. If Plextor is offering a $30 rebate now, perhaps they are trying to clear the channel for a new introduction soon. I have enough DVD-R media to last me for a little while, so maybe I'll just wait and see what happens in the next few weeks.

But always time to enjoy the back and forth of a good conversation!

[terryj]

However on the Pioneer site, there are no Mac OS X firmware updaters posted for the current or even the last multiple generations of burners. This offers a clue that a burner purchased today may possibly never have an OS X firmware updater to allow the drive to recognize the media available two or three years from now.

Some might consider this an academic discussion because they replace their entire computer every couple of years, or they will simply upgrade the drive to something newer and better.

But always time to enjoy the back and forth of a good conversation!

*ahem*
This should cement any further worries about who's gonna get top
treatment as to whose burmer will be supported:

http://www.extremetech.com/article2/0,1558,1774852,00.asp?kc=ETRSS02129TX1K0000532

to sum up:

Apple Computer Inc. said Thursday that it has joined the Blu-Ray Disc Association, throwing its weight behind one of the two competing next-generation DVD standards.The Blu-Ray board of directors includes Apple; Dell Inc.; HP; Hitachi, Ltd.; LG Electronics Inc.; Mitsubishi Electric Corporation; Panasonic (Matsushita Electric); Pioneer Corporation; Royal Philips Electronics; Samsung Electronics Co., Ltd.; Sharp Corporation; Sony Corporation; TDK Corporation; Thomson; Twentieth Century Fox; and Walt Disney Pictures and Television.

[terryj]

so, no speculation on the past, just speculation on the FACTS of the future.



Funny how the main suppliers of apple's components
all sit on the Blu-Ray board, eh?

[Ladd]

You are predicting that Apple Computer will support Pioneer drives that Apple installs in their computers at some time in the future.

I have never questioned the scenario whereby the equipment that Apple puts in their computers will function properly. My concern is how long the manufacturer of the drive will support a drive AFTER manufacture, or in the case of Apple Computer, AFTER the drive is installed in one of their computers.

Apple has released only one firmware updater for Pioneer drives -- about two years ago when 4X media became popular and the 2X Pioneer drives installed in current-at-that-time Macs would burn up trying to load the media. The firmware updated the drive to recognize the media and burn it at 1X -- an improvement only in the sense that the drive wouldn't commit suicide, but at least the drive didn't become functionally obsolete.

That firmware updater from two years ago is essentially the same as the last Mac OS X firmware updater provided by Pioneer.

Apple has released no firmware updaters for any of the OEM Sony burners used in the last few years, nor has it for the LG burner they put in my G4.

Will Apple provide better and longer support for drives yet to used OEM? Will they offer retroactive support for drives that can be purchased third-party today, when the manufacturer itself doesn't?

Chances wouldn't appear to to be good.

Would I be happy if there was a firmware update for my LG burner that would allow me to magically burn 8X media at 8X speeds? Certainly. Would I be satisfied if a firmware updater would allow me to burn at 2X speed the 8X media purchased today for less than the 2X media from two years ago? Sure I would -- if only because it would be less expensive than replacing the drive with a new one.

The point of my part of this discussion is evaluating the possibilities of different manufacturers of drives making available fimware updates that will allow older drives to recognize and deal with newer types of media that didn't exist when the drive was manufactured.

I don't expect a 16X burner from today to be able to fully utilize the possible 74X media a couple of years from now, but if a firmware update would allow the burner to use that 72X media at 16X rather than simple eject the media as unsuitabl is preferable to being forced to replace the drive because I can't easily find 16X media that's compatible with my specific drive.

It's probably a moot point anyway. Whatever drive I purchase now may possibly be so deficient in features a couple of years from now when compared to Blu-Ray that I probably won't mind that there is a chance (higher for Pioneer, lower for Plextor) of being unable to find 16X "regular" media that will work with it.

[willrob]

Like Terryj, I ordered the Newegg priced Pioneer 109. It won't arrive till Tuesday, and so I don't know if it will have the 1.17 firmware already installed. In the meantime, Pioneer has updated the firmware again to 1.40, mostly to support new media.

http://wwwbsc.pioneer.co.jp/product-e/ibs/device_e/dev00002r_e.html.

william

[terryj]

You are predicting that Apple Computer will support Pioneer drives that Apple installs in their computers at some time in the future.

I have never questioned the scenario whereby the equipment that Apple puts in their computers will function properly. My concern is how long the manufacturer of the drive will support a drive AFTER manufacture, or in the case of Apple Computer, AFTER the drive is installed in one of their computers.

SNIPPED REST

Look, I get the gist of your point, but AT SOME POINT,
you have to upgrade to get to the newer stuff period.
IF THAT WASN'T THE CASE, WHY MAKE NEW STANDARDS AT ALL?

If it would just as easy to offer say a firmware patch like
you said, that would enable a drive to burn to newer media
without just flat out rejecting it, ( at ANY speed),
a firmware that would RECALIBRATE
a LASER, re-time a LASER ARM SEQUENCER, and retro-actively
calibrate an internal drive motor, belt and diodes to be able to
enable a drive to rotate at the proper speed to avoid misfires,
then yeah they should do that. But I guarantee you IT WOULDN'T
BE FREE.

The drive manuafacturer, along with any other of its support vendors,
offers support for that particular model, up until that drive can no
longer PHYSICALLY support the media on the market, for the
reasons I mentioned above.

Apple and Pioneer offered a 2x patch for higher media, because
the media had just came out at the time the drive had
been put to market, and the -104 drives had built into them the
ability to read/write up to 2x speed, it was jsut crippled
to match the existing media AT THE TIME of APPLE's release.

Once standards had physically gotten to the point that the
INTERNAL parts of the existing DVD burners could not without
being re-tooled, handle the existing at market media, then
new drives had to be built and put to market.

Could they make cars that last forever?
Sure, but why? There is no profit in that?
No innovation in doing that?

Computers, like all things consumable, are cyclic.
Everything goes through the "latest greatest"
phase. It must be done to insure new innovations arise,
to offer greater use and growth of a product's life.

In our scenario, Apple, firming up with the Blu-Ray Group,
is doing just that. If a scenario happens where the next G6
is out to market, and it contains a Pioneer-112 drive,
and media standards change during the middle of
these machines making it to market, then yes you will see
Apple release a patch for DRIVES DEVELOPED BY ITS SUPPLIERS.

And, just like in the case of my recent Pioneer -109 drives, they will ship
with the latest firmware patches to insure max compatability.

Does it suck there are no aftermarket firmware patchers for the mac
for Pioneer drives, in some cases? yes.
But if you want to always be on the cutting edge, go buy a new drive.
That way your guaranteed the firmware patch, and that the drive
has max compatability.

After all, nothing lasts forever.

[terryj]

Like Terryj, I ordered the Newegg priced Pioneer 109. It won't arrive till Tuesday, and so I don't know if it will have the 1.17 firmware already installed. In the meantime, Pioneer has updated the firmware again to 1.40, mostly to support new media.

http://wwwbsc.pioneer.co.jp/product-e/ibs/device_e/dev00002r_e.html.

william

will,
drives, like DVDs themselves, are released in different regions with different regional firmware. It insures quality control and a "safe" test market.
http://www.pioneerusa.com/pna/faq/detail/0,,2076_149599191_144175025,00.html among others reported.

the current US released firmware is the 1.17 for the US released DVR-109.
http://www.pioneerusa.com/pna/article/0,,2076_4273_128163990,00.html

[Ladd]

...AT SOME POINT, you have to upgrade to get to the newer stuff period

Well, of course. I simply prefer my upgrades to be every four-to-five years, not every two.

I think we're going to have to agree to pleasantly disagree on this matter, as we've both given the discussion our best logic. Let's raise a glass of our favorite ale to each other and call it a day.

Moving on:

Other than the apparent differences in and perceived importance of long-term firmware support, are there any feature differences between the Pioneer 109 and Plextor 716 drives that might provide a more immediate and tangible reason to prefer one drive over another? Beyond the $20 difference in cost, please.

[Frobozz]

8 mb buffer in the Plextor; 2 mb in the Pioneer.

[terryj]

Make it a $37.50 dollar price difference:

http://dealmac.com/artclick.html?83524,116705

and free shipping to boot!!

Pioneer: $62--free shipping.
Plextor: $99.50( after waiting 45 days on a $30 mail in rebate)

[GeorgeW]

Plextor PX-716A 16x DL DVD+-R/RW $47 at bestbuy.com

You have to play the rebate game though

Cost = $117
-$10 off every $100 you spend (up to $500)
-$30 mail-in rebate for Bestbuy
-$30 plextor mail-in rebate

[terryj]

man, who can wait 45 days to make sure they
get all their money back?
After the fiasco I had with Office Depot,
i'll never do rebates!!!
;-p

[willrob]

My DVR-109 arrived a day earlier than NewEgg and FedX promised. So I popped open my dual G4, gagged on the dust and cat hair, and installed the new writer. I installed Pathburn and now I am "Vendor supported" with the 1.17 firmware already installed.

I chose to remove the 106 driver, rather than have two; but I am having second thoughts. When I updated the firmware on the 106, using the Mac flasher, I tried the two current region free firmwares: a 1.07 and a 1.08. Both were region free, both unlocked faster ripping speeds, but only the 1.07 made certain media write at a faster speed. I had collected a lot of 2X media when I first got my G4, which originally had a 104. I even had some 1X discs that had been on sale.

I discovered that with the 1.07 update
Memorex 1X could write at 2X
K-Hypermedia 1x could write at 1X, 2X, 4X
Other bands such as TDk, Fuji and Verbatim 2X discs had no improvement—they wrote at 1X or 2X.

Now with the 109 installed I find
Only the K-Hypermedia has remained 1X, 2X and 4X
Memorex has become 1X, its branded speed
Verbatim has become 1X
TDK has become 1X
Fuji has become 1X

And these last three were 2X media!

There has been no change with any of my branded 4X media; they are still 4X. I guess my point, if I have one, is that even with the 1.17 firmware there is still need for a Mac flasher for this drive, and not just for Region Free. Xcellerate your Mac is now also pointing to the 1.40 firmware update for the retail and oem versions of the 1.09.

[terryj]

Here's a real simple question:

why not just upgrade to 8x media?

I had 50 or so 2x TDK discs left, and I noticed the
change from 2x down to 1x now in my -109.
I just regulate these to backup DVDs for freelance
projects now, where the person who I'm making a DVD for
might have an older burner/is on the PC.

For my own backups, I switched to Taiyo Uden 8x discs.
Shop4tech or Meritline had these in 25 packs for
$20, and they burn in 8x speed no problem, no coasters
whatsoever.

It could be the old carrot:
The drive defaults to the best speed as per what it scans
when it "reads" the media type in the inner edge of the disc.
For our 2x media (TDK, Verbatim, Fuji) that was
either branded 2x or 1x-4x, this would be 1x.

[willrob]

Thanks for the clarification. While the speed of burning is a relevant, I spend most of my time multiplexing (in iDVD) or in MTR and DVD2oneX (when making backups). I'll probably use up all my 4X's before buying more disks.

But deal from dealmac.com is tempting:

Taiyo Yuden 16x DVD-R 50pk for $24 SupermediaStore.com offers the Taiyo Yuden 16X DVD-R media 50-pack for $24 via coupon code "tai5doff". It's the lowest price we've seen for this brand. Shipping starts around $5. Offer ends March 30.

I downloaded the pioneer compatible media pdf :

http://www.pioneeraus.com.au/computer/dvdwriters/dvr109/support/documents.html

and Taiyo Yuden 16X should burn at that speed, even before the 1.17 firmware.

If you download this pdf, read it in Acrobat. For some reason Preview doesn't display the text properly. Anyway, the chart claims that 8X can write as fast as 12X. I assume it depends on the brand. The chart also says 2X and 6X won't write at all, and that 1X is only writable as 1X.

According to Las Vegas at the Firmware site, the new 1.40 firmware is not region specific and we could (with a PC) upgrade to it and to whatever media it adds (I forget the bands at the moment). The new firmware is at:

http://www.pioneer-eur.com/eur/support_software.jsp?category=support/software#fdvdwriter

[Note: the 1st Pioneer page above is also where you get the warranty registration pdf—although one might be able to register on their site somewhere.]

Any brand recommendations for DL media? Not looking for spindle deals, just one disc to try out that function for now.

william

[willrob]

This is the link to the new media supported by the 1.40 firmware for the Pioneer 109:

http://wwwbsc.pioneer.co.jp/product-e/ibs/device_e/dev00002r_e.html

[terryj]

I dunno...I understand what your saying,
( and it has also been reported in the Firmware Forums site)
but I'd FEEL better upgrading the firmware when I see it
on the pioneer USA site, rather than just the Euro and Jap
sites. To me, when it makes it to the USA site, then most of
the bugs will have been spotted/fixed.

til then, I'm happy using 8x certified media like Taiyo Uden
and getting 5 -6 minute burns. I'll also be picking up
a spindle of 8x TDK media today from Best Buy, and testing
that as well.

[willrob]

The US Warrenty registration can be done here:

http://www.pioneerusa.com/pna/product/registration/business/0,,2076_4193,00.html

You're right. The US site doesn't mention the 1.4 firmware yet.

william