I am using ADVC-100 to convert analog VHS signal to DV, and capturing the avi files. My goal is to make DVDs. Question: what are the advantages and disadvantages of converting the entire avi file, audio and video, to MPEG2 and then authoring the resulting single MPEG file, versus extracting the audio into a WAV file, converting the video in TMPG, and then authoring the M2V and WAV files?
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Originally Posted by jcat
Not all USA DVD players support MP2 audio. It is not a standard in the USA NTSC DVD spec.
LPCM is supported by all DVD players but since it is uncompressed audio it takes up a lot of space so you must use a lower bitrate for the video than if you used MP2 audio which sounds very good at much lower bitrates. LPCM is 1536kbps whereas most people use 224kbps or 256kbps with MP2 audio.
The other option is AC-3 audio. Home made 2 channel AC-3 audio often sounds best at 224kbps or 256kbps which creates a file size about the same as a MP2 audio file at the same bitrate but "everyone" wins since AC-3 audio ... like LPCM audio ... will work with all DVD players.
So AC-3 gives you the lower size of MP2 but at slightly better quality and compatability.
The problem is that very few programs do AC-3 audio encoding so most people use BeSweet which is the only freeware way of doing AC-3 encoding.
The problem with this is that BeSweet does not create 2 channel AC-3 audio 100% to spec so some (though admittingly few) DVD players will have problems with it.
However there are programs out there that do good and proper AC-3 audio encoding but expect to pay for it. I know that Sonic DVDit PE does AC-3 encoding and it a nice full featured DVD authoring package but it costs around $400 USD but I'm really not aware of too many cheaper solutions. Most other solutions actually cost much more!
Anyway you can try BeSweet AC-3 and if it works on your DVD player then I would just use that unless you really want to get serious in which case you might want to consider something like Sonic DVDit PE
Anyways back to TMPGEnc. If you are doing LPCM then it will make a video only file (filename.m2v) and an audio only file (filename.wav) and most DVD authoring programs should not have a problem with that.
If you use TMPGEnc to do MP2 audio then you can either have seperate files (filename.m2v for the video and filename.mp2 for the audio) or you can have it output a single file (filename.mpg or filename.mpeg).
Anyway it is better to feed your seperate files instead of a single mpg/mpeg file to your DVD authoring program because the authoring programe will have to split (or what is called demultiplex) the mpg/mpeg file anyways so there is no need for you to feed it a multiplexed mpg/mpeg file.
However I think there are a few (very few I think) DVD authoring programs that will only accept a mpg/mpeg file. If your DVD authoring software is like this then consider getting something else.
Hope this help
- John "FulciLives" Coleman"The eyes are the first thing that you have to destroy ... because they have seen too many bad things" - Lucio Fulci
EXPLORE THE FILMS OF LUCIO FULCI - THE MAESTRO OF GORE
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Thanks for the answer. I've done a whole bunch of research on this site, but I still have a few more questions that need answering so it will all come together for me:
1. The main reason I'm going the ADVC-100 route is to try to fix my audio sync problems as simply as possible. Does stripping the audio out of the DV file and converting to AC3 affect the syncing issue, as compared with using mp2 audio?
2. I understand that I use BeSweet to convert a WAV file to ac3. But how do I get the WAV file out of the avi file? Can/should I do this with TMPGenc? VirtualDub? And if VirtualDub is the best way, I understand that I need to capture in DV type 2, but do I also need a codec of some sort, and if so, which one?
3. What are the advantages/disadvantages of frameserving, especially with regard to the audio sync issue?
4. Assuming I'm using TMPGenc to encode *only* the video to MPEG2, which Stream Type do I choose on the first page of TMPGenc? ES Video Only, or System Video Only, or something else? And what about bitrate - I want to set it so my final file is the right length - does this mean I have to use constant bitrate, or can I use variable and set the average?
5. What's the best way to do simple editing of the avi video file - ie, cutting off some of the beginning and end of the file? Does TMPGenc work adequately for this, or should I use VirtualDub or some other editor?
6. Finally, can I feed the video file (mpg? m2v? whatever is produced by TMPGenc) and the ac3 file directly into my authoring program - right now I'm using TMPGenc DVD Author or Ulead Movie Factory - or do I need to mux them first in TMPGenc?
Thanks for any help anyone can offer! -
avis are usually not the best quality, so you could save a klot of space making in a mpeg1 dvd compliant
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Originally Posted by ricky1756
You most likely are thinking of WAREZ downloads which tend to be DivX or Xvid AVI files and poor in quality.
The AVI file format can use a variety of codecs and not all of them are bad. In fact even DivX/Xvid can look damn near next to that of DVD quality if done from a high quality source and if properly encoded.
Anyways the original poster is using a Canopus ADVC-100 which records using a DV codec and that is very high quality indeed.
As for the original poster I will try to get to your additional questions ASAP but I don't have the time now to answer them all properly.
- John "FulciLives" Coleman"The eyes are the first thing that you have to destroy ... because they have seen too many bad things" - Lucio Fulci
EXPLORE THE FILMS OF LUCIO FULCI - THE MAESTRO OF GORE
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You mentioned that you can also use DVDIt PE to convert to AC3. Do you know if you can just have it convert a WAV audio file to AC3 for authoring in another program, or can it only do it if it actually is authoring it to a DVD?
Right now I'm using ffmpegGUI to convert WAV to AC3. I tried BeSweet and AC3Machine but couldn't get them to work and haven't yet spent much time figuring out why.
Anyway, I am looking for a way to create AC3 files that are guaranteed to be compliant. I don't mind if I have to buy a program to do that.
Any advice?
Thanks,
Guy -
Originally Posted by DigitalMan43
I've heard from a couple of people that it does AC-3 very well and it a very nice authoring program.
It my search for an AC-3 option (other than BeSweet) I can't seem to find a cheapter solution that DVDit PE
I have heard that there is a version of VEGAS VIDEO ... I think an AC-3 plug-in ... but that program is a good couple hundred or so more than DVDit PE plus Vegas Video just got bought out by SONY if I'm not mistaken so ... I don't know if that is a good thing or not.
- John "FulciLives" Coleman
P.S.
LINKS
SONIC DVDit PE LINK
VEGAS VIDEO + AC-3 ENCODING LINK"The eyes are the first thing that you have to destroy ... because they have seen too many bad things" - Lucio Fulci
EXPLORE THE FILMS OF LUCIO FULCI - THE MAESTRO OF GORE
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Originally Posted by jcat
Originally Posted by jcat
My understanding is for you to use VirtualDub you have to capture DV type 2 and from what I've read most Canopus ADVC-100 owner's use DVIO which is a FREEWARE capture program that can capture from the the FIREWIRE (aka IEEE 1394 or as SONY calls it i.link) port in either DV type 1 or 2 formats.
You do need a DV codec on the computer but chances are you already have that or I guess you can get that from a codec pack ... I recently installed the ACE codec pack and it came with a bunch of different codecs including several different DV codecs. I don't know which one is considered the best but I know Canopus makes one.
From my understanding most people that use the Canopus ADVC-100 do DV type 2 so they can use VirtualDub to edit and/or frameserve to their MPEG-2 encoder.
Originally Posted by jcat
I don't see either way being better or worse for audio sync except that AviSynth seems faster than frameserving from VirtualDub(Mod).
Originally Posted by jcat
ES VIDEO ONLY
This only does the video as a M2V file.
ES AUDIO ONLY
This only does the audio as either MP2 or LPCM based on your settings.
ES VIDEO+AUDIO
This does both the VIDEO and AUDIO but each are outputed as seperate files. The VIDEO will be M2V and the AUDIO will be MP2 or LPCM based on your settings.
SYSTEM VIDEO ONLY
This does the VIDEO only as an MPEG file with no AUDIO
SYSTEM VIDEO+AUDIO
This does the VIDEO and AUDIO as a single MPEG file. This is only possible when using MP2 sound. When using LPCM you cannot create a MPEG file.
As for CBR vs 2-Pass VBR
If you are going to do the audio seperately as AC-3 then you need to do that first so you know how big the AC-3 audio file will be. Then you can use a bitrate calculator (here is a link to a bitrate calculator) to determine what to encode the video as in TMPGEnc which can be done CBR or 2-Pass VBR or whatever.
If you are inputing the video and the audio because you will be using either LPCM or MP2 audio then there is a bitrate calcultor built into TMPGEnc's WIZARD MODE which will work or again you can use the bitrate calculator that I linked too above.
Originally Posted by jcat
VirtualDub(Mod) is best for simple CUT EDITING such as trimming out portions of the video like trimming the start and end and cutting out TV commericials etc.
Anything more extensive than that and you should look into a good DV editing program such as Vegas Video or Premiere (both very full featured but way expensive) or even some of the cheapers solutions such as Ulead Videostudio or Pinnacle Studio etc.
Originally Posted by jcat
I think Ulead MF2 only accepts MPEG files but I'm not 100% positive. I know it will only accept AC-3 if already muxed with the video as an MPEG (which can be done with TMPGEnc). Please note that currently MF2 users are complaining that the current upgrade downloaded has locked the program 100% of accepting AC-3 audio (the muxed MPEG file with video and AC-3 audio was actually a trick anyways as MF2 does not officially support AC-3 but trick or not it did tend to work most of the time).
I've had probelms with MF2 and haven't used it in a while. If you have TMPGEnc DVD Author then just stick with that ... unless you want to go all out and get something like DVDit PE.
GOOD LUCK !!!
- John "FulciLives" Coleman
*** EDIT ***
I wanted to add this LINK:
http://dvd-hq.info/Compression.html?PHPSESSID=4543586e1df69d9a03769dedba075f0e
That link is to a guide on using TMPGEnc and since that sounds like what you are using then I think you will find it very interesting.
In this guide pay special attention to the option called "Output basic YCbCr" which is a very important option that is usually overlooked by many."The eyes are the first thing that you have to destroy ... because they have seen too many bad things" - Lucio Fulci
EXPLORE THE FILMS OF LUCIO FULCI - THE MAESTRO OF GORE
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John, this is *extremely* helpful; thanks so much for taking the time. I was especially interested to hear about the trick of using the TMPGenc Wizard but then stopping encoding. Although in light of the link you gave me, it appears that I might need to set some of the TMPGenc options manually anyway, but I guess I can do that after I halt the initial encoding.
I still have a question about frameserving, though - namely, why would I want to frameserve at all? In other words, why frameserve as opposed to simply loading the avi file into TMPGenc? I don't think I really understand what frameserving is and when it is called for.
Again, thanks for all your help! -
"Why would I want to frameserve" ?
If you want to do anything to your captured DV ( edit , filter , etc )
some program will read the file , do something , and write it back out .
How does it write it out ? By writing it RAW (111 Gb / hour )
or compressing it again ( lost quality )
How do you output a file RAW without using time or disk space ?
Frameserve... One program outputs RAw video and another Reads it
without an intervening file. Reminds one of pipes in Unix
If only I could figure out how to frameserve across a LAN -
Hmmm, I'm still confused about frameserving. It seems much easier to just load the avi file into TMPGenc Plus - would I be sacrificing a lot of quality by doing that?
I'm also confused about itnerlacing. Is the avi file produced when I convert to DV through ADVC-100 interlaced or deinterlaced? When I encode in TMPGenc Plus, how do I set this up? Do I want to try to deinterlace if it is interlaced? Again, my ultimate goal is VHS to DVD. -
Originally Posted by jcat
Then you either frameserve straight from VirtualDub(Mod) to TMPGEnc or you can do what I said before in my other post where you use the SCRIPT EDITOR function of VirtualDubMod and select IMPORT FRAMESET AS TRIMS which will give you a line you can put into an AviSynth AVS script so you don't have to frameserve through VirtualDub(Mod) with the benefit being that AviSynth is faster.
Originally Posted by jcat
You should leave it INTERLACED
The only time you might want to consider DEINTERLACING is when you are creating a video that will only be viewed on a computer monitor such as a DivX or Xvid etc.
However you should read up on IVTC which is someting that you can do with some NTSC captures and if you can it is a good idea.
There are a couple of guides on the doom9 website about IVTC and DEINTERLACING.
- John "FulciLives" Coleman"The eyes are the first thing that you have to destroy ... because they have seen too many bad things" - Lucio Fulci
EXPLORE THE FILMS OF LUCIO FULCI - THE MAESTRO OF GORE
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But what I'm still not understanding is why I would want to frameserve - what does it get me? I could do my simple editing in virtualdub, and then take the edited file and load it into TMPGenc. This seems easier than frameserving, so why would I want to frameserve?
Thanks for the info about interlacing, too - I think I'm beginning to understand; video is interlaced, film is not. So if my source is VHS video, taped from TV, my source will be interlaced. I want to be able to watch on either computer or TV, but I can use PowerDVD to deinterlace when I watch on the computer, and interlacing will work fine on the TV, so I'm not going to bother deinterlacing.
Thanks again for all your help, John! -
Originally Posted by jcat
OK you load the capture into VirtualDub to edit it. Right. Now what? After you edit it you have two options. You either frameserve to TMPGEnc so you can encode it OR what? ...
Save it BACK to a file from VirtualDub.
Which requires double the disk space because if the original file is say 40GB in size (not outragous depending on the AVI codec you are using) then you need another 40ishGB to save the EDITED version before you can delete the non-edited version.
So you simply frameserve direct from VirtualDub to TMPGEnc.
The other option is the edit in VirtualDubMod and it will give you your trims which can be plugged into an AviSynth AVS script. Then you just shut down VirtualDubMod ... insert the trim commands into your AviSynth AVS script ... and load the script into TMPGEnc. It's faster plus I only use AviSynth filters anyways so I really have no need to frameserve from VirtualDub although I guess using AviSynth is also considered frameserving to an extent.
Anyways TMPGEnc can do the edits but it is hard to be precise with it and it is a pain-in-the-ass to edit with it and sometimes editing with it could cause problems since it doesn't always edit on a key frame etc.
If you ask one more time I'm gonna turn into the HULK and smash you
- John "FulciLives" Coleman"The eyes are the first thing that you have to destroy ... because they have seen too many bad things" - Lucio Fulci
EXPLORE THE FILMS OF LUCIO FULCI - THE MAESTRO OF GORE
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He'll figger it out when he has a 40G file to edit end encode with
only 50G of drive space. -
Which requires double the disk space because if the original file is say 40GB in size (not outragous depending on the AVI codec you are using) then you need another 40ishGB to save the EDITED version before you can delete the non-edited version.
I'm not an idiot, but I do feel like one sometimes in this world, despite my long-ago technical background. I'm doing my absolute best to struggle to understand and learn, and I try pretty hard to find the answers to my questions before posting - I know the answers must be *somewhere*! But even though there's tons of info on this site, sometimes it's difficult, despite the most refined Google searches I can think of, to find answers to the basic questions - like, what is frameserving and why would I want to do it?
Anyway, I am sorry I've gotten on your nerves - but if you're that annoyed you could just ignore me!You didn't, though, and I do appreciate it - your answers have helped me put all the other stuff I've been reading on this site and elsewhere into context. It's starting to make sense. Though I can't promise that I won't have more questions later! :P
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I just found out that Sonic MyDVD 5 Deluxe ($69.99 USD) can do AC-3 encoding. My guess is it only does 2.0 AC-3 but that is all you will ever need for the most part since your captures converted to MPEG-2 will have nothing more than 2 channel stereo audio.
There are many versions it seems of Sonic MyDVD 5 and only the aforementioned Deluxe version and the step up (top-of-the line) Sonic MyDVD Studio Deluxe 5 ($99.99) do the AC-3 encoding.
A demo is available. I tried to download it but it is like 147MB and I no longer have a cable modem and I am on a normal phone line 56k modem so I dunno I may just buy it and hope for the best.
The Sonic website for MyDVD 5 is here:
http://www.sonic.com/products/mydvd/default.asp
Not a bad price at all for AC-3 encoding although I'm not sure how well the program works as an authoring package.
- John "FulciLives" Coleman
*** EDIT ***
Using PRICEGRABBER.COM I was able to find the top-of-the line version of Sonic MyDVD Studio Deluxe 5 for $75.94 which sure beats $99.99 if you buy it direct from SONIC"The eyes are the first thing that you have to destroy ... because they have seen too many bad things" - Lucio Fulci
EXPLORE THE FILMS OF LUCIO FULCI - THE MAESTRO OF GORE
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Is there a way to frameserve a file from Ulead Video Studio 7 to TMPGEnc without have to save it as a new AVI?
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what is «FRAMESERVE« ?
you have a VHS-C tape and VHS videorecorder
what you do ?
get an adapter (frameserve tool)
to put the VHS-C tape directly in VHS video recorder
(no need to record to a VHS)
this is the simple explanation to understand frameserve
using VirtualDub or Avisynth (frameserve tools) you can add filters, subs, images and more to improve the quality in the final result.
and don´t forget to resize (if needed) before TMPegenc-it´s faster and better -
Hi friends. Since i am not quite newbie in this field, my question is very simple:
I've just bought a PLEXTOR PX708A DVDrecorder and i want to TRY to make (author) a DVD-Video out of many videos i have on my harddisk (mpg, avi, wmv). What software should i try to begin? I read TMPGenc DVD Author is fine. Shall i start trying with these? Will it convert all above formats? I use nero 5.5.10.45 as burning software. Is it ok? What else should i have in mind?
I don't want to be involved with single file conversions, audio conversions and formats etc... I just would like to drag'n'drop my video files to a window and click a "create DVD-Video" button. Is that possible? (i don't mind if some videos are incompatible and will not be included at last - i just want to experiment with any formats and files in the beginning and i don't want to worry about resolutions and images sizes etc. etc.)
Is above mentioned software ok? Is it too complicated? is there a more easy-to-use one? Thank for your help in advance!!!pasalimanius -
I don't want to be involved with single file conversions, audio conversions and formats etc.
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@ jcat,
Frameserving ...
I'm not sure you get the picture "clear" enough :P
This has the following benefits:
PROS:
* Grab multiple segmented .avi files (as if it were looking at ONE big file)
* Ability to edit (ie, filters; IVTC; Cutting; Cropping; Resizing; etc etc)
* Feed (frameserve) frame by frame into another app (ie, Encoder or other
...yes, Editor, or other App)
CONS:
* eats up ~double hd space (ie, 80g max, your cap'ed 40g)
* takes a LOT of time to "resave" your edited .avi to a new .avi)
Note 1, resaving an .avi file (after editing) is NOT a very effective way
for processing a given video project. However, in a skilled user's hands,
this is the opposite, depending on the nature of the project. In your
case, it's definately not the way to go for you.
Note 2, Segmented .avi files ...
The purpose of this, is for those that suffer space limitation, per OS.
W2K and XP do not suffer filesize limitations (ie, can be 1g or 100g) but
W95/W98/SE/ME do. They have either 2g or 4g (FAT32=4g for w98/se/me)
Question: Now, what gives you Segmented .avi files ??
Answer: The sofware capture application does.
An example is Virtualdub (aka, vdub) and AVI_IO as well. But, YOU have to
set these up to do segmented captures. It's NOT gonna do it, until you tell
it to, and then you save it as a setting for future projects (of which is best
to just continue using the saved setup as your default, for every capture
project)
So, bare it in mind, that frameseving is great for Segmented .avi files too :P
if you suffer the 2g or 4g filesize limitation. IF your OS is W2K/XP, then
don't even worry about it, well, first make sure you setup your OS's file
structure for NTSF, THEN you don't even have to worry about it :P
Think of frameserving as a middle man.
* .AVI --> M.MAN --> Encoder
You feed an .avi into this frameserver (ie, vdub, or AVIsynth [via .avs scripts])
and this frameserver (depending on its capabilities) can give you access to
"edit" the .avi source files (in place) then, when you are ready to feed your
.avi soure files into another app (ie, TMPG or another Editor etc) then you
start the frameseve client (vdub, File/StartFrameserve... and give it a filename)
Then, you "point" that filename (or load it) into your app (ie, TMPG) and from
their, you Encode it etc.. (see list of steps below)
If your frameserve client was vdub, then your filename would be xxx.VDR, else
if it was AVIsynth script (aka, .AVS script) then your frameserving is done
when you've written your .AVS scripts, save it, and named it something ie, xxx.AVS
and feed either frameservee to TMPG for instance.
Continuing ...
Now, depending in your authoring process, this can also eat up a lot
of hd space. I used to use MyDVD v4, and this would eat up more than the
files combined to mux and create VOB files, then you have to have the
hd space to burn to your DVD disk. This may or may not effect every
one's system/setup, but it did on mine, and it was driving me crazy
because I kept running out of hd space. In the long run, this process
ate up all my hd space and mine you, it took forever to complete, due
to the lack of hd space. If you are not watchful enough, you could
run into this problem too, even under your 250g - you'd be surprised.
Frameserving allows you to open either a LARGE 40g .avi file, OR multi
segmented (as in my case, due to my w98gold's 4g limit) .avi files (ie,
if your cap app allowed you to capture in small 1gig segments, and your
final ending capturing resulted in 40 of these 1gig .avi files :P )
This frameserving would take take the LARGE .avi file or Segmented .avi
files, as if ONE big file, and feed, frame by frame, to your encoder (ie,
TMPG or CCE or whatever encoder app you are using to encode your .avi
files)
For your given DVD projects, your order flow should follow a basic receipe:
Code:LN Description/Process 01 * First, your source .avi file(s) (ie, from a capture .....project, or already-made source) 02 * Editing your source file(s) - (can be Video and/or .....Audio) 03 * Encoding your (if edited or not) source file(s) - .....(can be Video and/or Audio) 04 * Authoring your (if edited or not) Encoded file(s) 05 * Burning your Encoded file 06 * and finally, playing or enjoying your Authored/Burned .....file(s) :P
Line 02/03 is the hardest of all processes. These require great energys to become
skillful at, which takes time to develop
Line 04 is another learning curve, but not as exhaustive (though it should be,
but happended in my case, cause I was prettyat the time)
Line 05 is not so difficult to master, and finally
Line 06 is the easyiest of all :P
Your milage will most definatley vary, depending upon your skills level and your
goals. The more skillful you are, the more software app or tools/utilis you
scruffle up in your toolbag/chest. A skillful user never throws out any of his/her
tools.., and that inlcudes the many various versions of each tool thereof.
I can't get any more anal then the above.
Lots of luck in your "frameserve" endeavors :P
-vhelp -
Foo said that Ulead has a frameserver for Video Studio 7...
How do I get it to work? I can't find anything in the help about it.
I have also installed the Plugpac frameserver but also cant get that to work.
I am very new to this so any help would be appreciated. -
As far as I remember , a new option appears in the output
configuration dialog , when you install these frameservers.
You just SaveAs , Export or whatever and pick the frameserver
option. Then open that signpost file with the encoder
I don't have it installed now. or I'd try it.
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