jitter problems? read this...

[lordsmurf]

As usual, I run lots of tests. I don't do it for other people as much as for myself, but I always try to share my findings. This one is interesting...

Between a Matrox (Mac DV-based), a couple ATI's (AIW) and an AVer (BT878), the ATI picked up less jitter.

Introducing a DataVideo TBC-1000 (NOT a JVC/Panasonic internal TBC) removes most of it, maybe 100% in best cases, about 50% in worst cases. With a TBC, the Matrox does a little better than the ATI. The AVer is a clear loser.

Now here's the interesting thing: using my APEX DRX-9000 DVD recorder, I can remove all jitter in cases where the computer cards would not.

Food for thought.

The APEX has now left my bedroom, and has been added to the equipment now used in my office. It will never replace my ATI cards (and I in fact want to add a Matrox RT2500 later this year), as the cards can do more than a recorder, but the recorder has secured itself a place of value in my equipment stack.

It seems no device can do it all. But if you buy enough stuff, you'll have most fixes available to you.

[ronnylov]

What do you mean with "jitter"?

Sometimes when I capture from PAL VHS (using my JVC HR-S7700 SVHS with internal TBC) I get vertical jumping effects. The picture suddenly jumps one line up or down and it is very annoying especially when capture something interlaced - sometimes it becomes field shifted. It usually happens on older tapes with lower quality.

Does the TBC-1000 remove this kind of jitter? Can it be removed in software using some kind of virtualdub or avisynth filter in the post processing?

[lordsmurf]

Jitter... slight vertical movement, not really jumping, but small and obnoxious up-n-down movements. Very small and very quick.

[ronnylov]

Yes, that's what I have then - jitter.

Perhaps there is an internal TBC inside your DVD recorder.
It would be interesting to have this TBC as a standalone unit.
Can you pass through the video signal - connect source to video in on DVD recorder and connect video out if DVD recorder to your capture card without recording to DVD on DVD recorder and will this work as a TBC unit then?

[lordsmurf]

Yes, that's what I have then - jitter.

Perhaps there is an internal TBC inside your DVD recorder.
It would be interesting to have this TBC as a standalone unit.
Can you pass through the video signal - connect source to video in on DVD recorder and connect video out if DVD recorder to your capture card without recording to DVD on DVD recorder and will this work as a TBC unit then?

No, no TBC in the APEX.

In fact, I have a DataVideo TBC-1000 inline with the whole setup. Both the ATI AIW and APEX are fed by the TBC, which is fed by the JVC. The TBC I have has 4 outputs, and I use all 4 of them (3 cap cards and the recorder). The JVC is the source, purified by the DataVideo (sometimes a SIMA SED-CM is added/replaced as needed), and then fed to all four devices.

These tests were conducted concurrently. I can play the Apex to the tv and the ATI on the PC, and the tv shows no jitter, the ATI does. Subsequent burn of the ATI on DVD-RW and played on same tv (using Apex as player) showed ATI jitter. Same for AVer and Matrox tests.

If you want a TBC, the DataVideo TBC-1000 is great, but as I said, the ATI, AVer (and and Matrox in another test) still picks up the noise... the APEX did not.

Curious stuff.

[DaveS]

lordsmurf - am I ok leaving the tbc-1000 inline when doing my captures even if the jvc tbc seems to be doing most of the work I need? Have you found that the analog->digital->analog specifcally on the tbc-1000 affects the picture quality?

if this is too OT I can post a new topic..

[lordsmurf]

lordsmurf - am I ok leaving the tbc-1000 inline when doing my captures even if the jvc tbc seems to be doing most of the work I need? Have you found that the analog->digital->analog specifcally on the tbc-1000 affects the picture quality?

if this is too OT I can post a new topic..

You can stack a few TBCs ... even if the JVC does most of the work, the TBC-1000 helps too. Plus the JVC and DataVideo work differently (DNR vs field) and each does something different to the video stream. Helpful to have both.

[aiw9800proman]

This thread is interesting.

I am now using a jvc HRs8965 and its doing a good job, unfortunately I am still getting horizontal lines / noise. Manual tracking does not fix this and auto tracking is best.

I need to remove these horizontal lines and am looking at the Datavideo range, the tbc 1000 is recommended in these forums but ive noticed that dv do a tbc 100 internal pci card, only uses the pci for power but saves desktop space.

I intend buying a matrox rtx100 extreme pro when I can afford it, so I have to consider a tbc that will work well with that cartd too.

Any ideas ?

Regards

M

[lordsmurf]

This thread is interesting.

I am now using a jvc HRs8965 and its doing a good job, unfortunately I am still getting horizontal lines / noise. Manual tracking does not fix this and auto tracking is best.

I need to remove these horizontal lines and am looking at the Datavideo range, the tbc 1000 is recommended in these forums but ive noticed that dv do a tbc 100 internal pci card, only uses the pci for power but saves desktop space.

I intend buying a matrox rtx100 extreme pro when I can afford it, so I have to consider a tbc that will work well with that cartd too.

Any ideas ?

Regards

M

The TBC-1000 is easy to move around and has multiple outputs. The computer one is stuck ONLY in that one computer.

Have you looked at buying a used Matrox RT2500 from eBay ? They sell for like $300-400 and are supposedly the predecessors to the RTX100 cards. I really want one, but I'm too broke. What I want to do with video next requires more than my ATI card (or any other consumer card).

Also know that is the JVC joined with the separate TBC cannot fix the tape, it may be damaged beyond repair.

[aiw9800proman]

Very true, if it was fixed in the pc I would probably regret it.
I have looked at the rt2500's but im really hooked on the adobe prem pro suite that comes the new matrox card. Ive spent a long time saving hard for this and I want to end up with a full kit that I can do 'almost' anything with.

I dont think the tape is damaged and im sure it can be solved.

Interestingly, i have read on another website that tbc's are a waste of time unless the source tape is striped ? Does my new jvc do that for me ?

Regards

M