Canadian health insurance

[lordsmurf]

My limited understanding of my neighbor up north is you have state-funded health insurance. A buddy of mine wants to move to Canada because of that and a few other reasons.

Your thoughts?

Here good health insurance easily costs $2500-4000 yearly.

[BJ_M]

its good and it works more or less -- coverage changes by which prov. your in ....

some things can be real slow to get done though ... like 2 years to get a mri in calgary .... but i found for most things , you are in and out like a flash ...

pre. drugs a lot cheaper here and many drugs are "over the counter" here and not in usa ....

taxes are higher here because if that though ...

it was -40 at my house last couple days --- then add the wind chill ...

you sure he likes cold weather (or move to vancouver B.C. instead) ?

[BJ_M]

http://www.health.gov.on.ca/english/public/program/ohip/ohip_mn.html

http://www.healthservices.gov.bc.ca/bchealthcare/

http://www.ramq.gouv.qc.ca/en/publications/documents/depliantscitoyens/assmala.pdf&e=747

http://www.hc-sc.gc.ca/medicare/home.htm

[gmatov]

BJ,

We're constantly told that you have to wait so long for some procedures in Canada, as well as the UK.

We're also told that the cost is 14 % of GNP in Canada.

Here, in the US, we spend 15 % of our GNP on health care, and have 40 million people without coverage, as well as having drug prices so high that 3 tour buses of seniors can make a junket to Canada and collectively save 90,000 USD on that trip alone.

We also have an estimated 100,000 people die of hospital "misadventure", wrong diagnosis, wrong medication, whatever.

We also have an MRI machine in damn near every doctor's office, and you will get an MRI for a skinned knee, here, because they have to pay for that machine. Probably 90 % of MRIs are unnecessary. But they do pay good returns.

A while back, near here, there was a 2 car collision, and the news reported that one person was life flighted to the hospital for "suspected broken leg".

Again, 5 million dollar helicopter, everybody has one, have to pay for them, 4500 buck flight, the insurance will pay.

Oh, yes, as to the drugs, our FDA and the makers said they didn't know if the Canadian drugs were safe, and the Governor of Minnesota demanded "Show me the dead Canadians!". They backed off. Our companies sell them to you at 90 % less than our cost, you sell them back at 100 % markup, and they say, "Well, we don't know if those drugs are safe."

Are we selling you "seconds"?

BTW, did you read that our great new Medicare Drug bill prohibits Medicare from negotiating for reduced bulk rates for pills? The law, as written, requires the government to pay whatever the druggies ask for medicine, even to the largest buyer in the world.

Sumpin's wrong here.

Cheers,

george

[lordsmurf]

Oh, yes, as to the drugs, our FDA and the makers said they didn't know if the Canadian drugs were safe, and the Governor of Minnesota demanded "Show me the dead Canadians!". They backed off.

God bless that man. JESSE VENTURA is a guy I respect and LOVE to listen to. He holds an office, but I don't think of him as a politician.

My governor can body slam you governor ... that's so awesome.

it was -40 at my house last couple days --- then add the wind chill ... you sure he likes cold weather (or move to vancouver B.C. instead) ?

I don't know. I couldn't do it. He's from the south too, never been colder than 0 F at lowest here. Maybe a few below, but that was in 1996 last I recall.

I have heard many nice things about Vancouver, and I've even visited once. I'd like to go back. A lot of people I know or have worked with have business contacts there, though not in my field. Would you suggest Vancouver BC as a good place to live, work?

It's where Pamela Anderson is from too, isn't it? :P

[gmatov]

Where you been, buddy?

Minn's Gov. is Tim Pawlenty.

"The Body" gave up on politics.

However, our gov, Ed Rendell, is supposed to be quite a trencherman. Looking for a new state slogan, he turned down "My Governor Can Outeat Your Governor".

Cheers,

George

[BJ_M]

i would suggest the greater toronto area (known as the golden horseshoe) if you want to be sure of a job ... or the ottawa area (women outnumber men there almost 2:1 !)

vancouver is a great looking place to live for sure -- but i wouldn't myself (though ive worked there many times) .... vancouver is also known as hollywood north as so many TV shows and motion pictures are filmed there (and in also in toronto) ---

[pacmania_2001]

...or the ottawa area (women outnumber men there almost 2:1 !)

I know where I'm moving when I finish university.

[SquirrelDip]

I grew up in Vancouver - still has to be one of the prettiest cities in the world (kinda like Seattle but without the guns ). Problem there is that it's hard to find work and the traffic sucks.

Lived in Toronto from '87 to '94. Toronto is the place that all Canadians love to hate - I actually enjoyed my time there but because of the size wouldn't want to raise my family there. BJ_M is suggesting Toronto as a place you can be sure of a job, currently this may be true but I had to leave Toronto due to losing my job.

As far as I know, Pamela Anderson was born in Ladysmith - a small town between Nanaimo and Victoria on Vancouver Island.

I've been to Ottawa on many occasions and it is a wonderful place - yes, there is a high ratio of women. Just make sure you like to talk politics (it's the nation's capitol) and have a good view of the French (large portion of the city are from Quebec).

I currently live in Calgary. While it doesn't have all of the advantages of Toronto or Vancouver it doesn't have their disadvantages either. The city here is a nice size (about a million) and it's easy to get away from the city - Banff is only 1.5 hours away, fantastic skiing is only 2 hours and in the summer camping is only 30 minutes.

The talk earlier in this post was regarding health care. While all of Canada has it's problems it's comforting to know that no one here will ever be refused medical attention - it's also been my experience that when you truly need attention there is minimal waiting. The waiting period can be excessive of elective surgeries and you can sit for hours in emergency (for non life threatening problems).

[lordsmurf]

Where you been, buddy?

Minn's Gov. is Tim Pawlenty.

"The Body" gave up on politics.

However, our gov, Ed Rendell, is supposed to be quite a trencherman. Looking for a new state slogan, he turned down "My Governor Can Outeat Your Governor".

Cheers,

George

Ahh, not paying much attention to politics since I left college some years back. I asked somebody the other day, maybe a few weeks ago, that was supposed to be "up on the times" and he said the Body was still gov. Last time I ask him something. I didn't know that. Jesse is a good guy.


@ all the canadians

Is Calgary the porn capiral of Canada, by chance? When I was there last, I saw a LOT of porn stores and shops.

More women in Ottawa... hey hey!
But must like the French? ... um... no.

I've spent time in Toronto too. It didn't seem all that bad, not at all.

[BJ_M]

what most americans call "porn shops", canadian's call "adult entertainment stores" ..


in quebec they would call them "family entertainment super stores" ..

[ChrisX]

It is good to know that America got a lovely neighbor up north. It isn’t hard to get there and back. I love Toronto.

Canada is a beautiful place and if you want to live there, Canadian health insurance is one advantage.

[wulf109]

Mark Twain said it first,America has the best government money can buy.
You know it wrong when they invent a name for it "soft money.

Canada is country the size of America and 10% of it's population. Population distribution might have something to do with the "slow" care.

Welcome to the Corporate Autocracy of America

[lordsmurf]

@ Chriscjgs ... nice avatar .. best looking "Union Jack" I've seen in a while. :P

[indolikaa]

in quebec they would call them "family entertainment super stores" ..

Yeah! Stick it to them French-Canadian types! :P

[Ziffelpig]

I think the only real differences an American coming to Canada would notice would be our parliamentary system of government(Here senators are figure heads and have no legislative power), currency(multi-coloured), its next to impossible to own a handgun, we can't stop saying eh, and we are still a Commonwealth country and have Queen Elizabeth as our sovereign. I think it would be difficult for most Americans to tell the difference between the US and Canada once they were here. Canadians will complain about the Health Care system, waiting lines etc, but it is universal and you will be treated by, and get the best care available regardless of social status or income.

[gmatov]

Zifflepig,

Hear, hear, eh?

Just like us, except you have a little different form of gov, which, I hear the Queen can dissolve, if she gets too pissed, and call for new elections.

The gun thing,I think has cost you over 1 an 1/4 billion, so far, for a 10 million dollar program, and some computer illiteratr managed to delete the first 600 million dollars of the database.

Ah, well, there is still 50 % or so of your pay, which you get to spend now that they can tell you they need because of the screwup.

What I said, we have the most expensive health system in the whole world, not just the industrialized nations ( hey, how much can Uganda spend, as a % of their tax base on medicine? ), and 40 million uninsured.

A goddamned crime. And, again, the Bush bill says the US gov cannot, by this law dicker for a lower price on the rip off drugs thar Medicare eligible doctors have to prescribe.

And, no one will know the true cost till it goes into full effect in 2006.

Wow, what a country!!!

Cheers,

George

Sorry, Smurf, that was more a giggle than a putdown.

As a nation, we are not the most well read pipple, are we?

[ChrisX]

Just like us, except you have a little different form of gov, which, I hear the Queen can dissolve, if she gets too pissed, and call for new elections.

George,

I don't think there is much difference if you are in the US, the UK, Canada, Australia and New Zealand.

The Government's in each country maybe different in form and this doesn't mean one is better than the other. There is always a way to dismiss, to dissolve, to impeach or to fire whatever form of Government or who is charge.

It doesn’t matter and we got different laws and taxes in each and we have to live with it.

In Australia, the Queen doesn’t have much power here even though she is the distant head of state. The Queen doesn’t do much here and nice to have her and this is it.

The real power here rests with the Governor General and you can call him an envoy.

The Governor General is the one who dissolves Parliament and calls for new election after advice from the Prime Minister unless the Queen is here in Australia.

The envoy got much more power rather the Queen and he rarely uses it except at one time. The Governor General dismissed the Australian Government on the 11th November 1975.

The dismissal brought controversy for some then whether this was as legal or not and justified or not. There were debates and arguments over the event for some years.

There was a recent debate whether the Queen can action or overrule the Governor General’s sacking of a government. The Government of the day then did try to reverse the dismissal by contacting the Queen and she did nothing.

I don’t think this would be any different in Canada if a representative dismissed a Prime Minister and the Government there.

In Australia, we have a ridiculous situation that the Prime Minister can dismiss a Governor General and at the same time a Governor General can dismiss the Prime Minister and his Government.

This is a two way stupidity and this needs to change.

[indolikaa]

I can speak as one of those 40 million people who don't have health insurance.

Imagine being 32, having beaten by 10 years the estimated age when your doctor told you a hip replacement would be necessary (osteoarthritis, thanks to a rather ugly hip injury in high school) and having no options. Why? Well, first off it's preexisting and much like pregnancy, that kinda situation won't be covered. Second, do you have any idea how much that type of surgery costs?!

I'd take socialized medicine in a heartbeat. I don't need that warm, fuzzy feeling that comes with an individual doctor-patient relationship. Bah!

[BJ_M]

it isnt socialized medicine in canda per say ... you get to pick yur own doctors and hospitals and you stay with your own doctor as long as you want ... things like eye exams are also covered as well many other things -- but a few recently removed from the list .. extra health insurance we pay at work which covers all drugs and dental costs as well as some extra costs for out of the country expenses ...

im not saying its all rosy here -- but its not a bad system ... problems include low pay for some doctors (causing them to go to the usa were they can earn more doing less) and high malpractise insurance costs (global problem -- to many lawsuits -- some are justified, but so many lawsuits are not) .. tough job for nurses also who should earn more for what they do ...

[zzyzzx]

My limited understanding of my neighbor up north is you have state-funded health insurance.

More like taxpayer funded health insurance. Tell your friend to expect to pay much higher taxes for their free health insurance.

[gmatov]

zzyzzx,

Good point. Just how much DO you pay for that "free" health care?

My tax deductions from my most recent paycheck come to just under a 1/3 of my gross pay. What's yours?

What is a Canadian's total deduction?

If you consider that the cost for my health insurance is money that should be in my paycheck, and that, when I was layed off some years ago, I had to pay for continued coverage at the rate of over 400 bucks a month, that is closer to half my pay gone to taxes.

Plus, good plan or no, nearly everything I would go to a doctor for has a co-pay, so I'm out of pocket even more. Any drugs I would be prescribed are also co-pay, I think at 45%.

What say you, neighbors to the North? Do you pay too much, or do we?

Cheers,

George

[SquirrelDip]

As a percentage our tax is very high - check out this link...

Something that you have to remember is that Canada is a little larger than the States but we have 1/10th the polulation. Taxation is bound to be higher.

Even with the high tax I'd still rank Canada as the No.1 place to live. I forget who came up with the line but in Canada every murder still makes the evenning news...

[BJ_M]

taxes in canada ARE higher for sure .... deductions from your paycheck are between 30-38% on average ... but on the flip side there are no estate taxes (very high in usa) and no tax on lottery and gambling winnings .. but in usa you can deduct partially your intrest on loans ...
very high income pay less in canada and middle class pay more in canada ... the banking system is much better in canada i must say ...

booze is very expensive here (also taxes and cost of goods varies a lot from prov. to prov. .... ontario is a lot cheaper to live than many other places - except for housing) . gas is more expensive here , many things are accually cheaper in canada ... we have a lot of resources for one thing- including water and land (everyone worldwide wants canada lumber and water resources) .. canada is also the 2nd largest diamond producer and largest gold producer in the world , along with a host of other minerals..
we are also sitting on huge oil and gas reserves ... but much of the land in canada is not really living friendly (unless you like living at or above the tree line) ..... i'm an american btw -- been living in canada over 20 years now ...

[ChrisX]

More like taxpayer funded health insurance. Tell your friend to expect to pay much higher taxes for their free health insurance.

We have this in Australia, a taxpayer funded heath insurance and this is called Medicare. It is funded by taxpayer earning levy, I think it is something like 1.5 per cent?

It isn't as good as used to be it as downgraded over the years and having less cover.

Some now have to pay extra to see a doctor after a basic rebate from the Government.

[gmatov]

BJ_M,

That's more like what I was asking. Percentage points. 30 to 38 % does not sound as though you are paying more than we are.

Estate taxes, the so called "Death Tax" that the Reps try to sell you on, are only applicable to the very, very rich. There has NEVER been a "family farm" that had to be sold to pay inheritance taxes. I do believe the exemption has been raised to 625 thou, and an old fart like me can sell his primary residence tax free.

I did read the link provided above. It appears to show that the rich here can get away with paying less than the poor, or even the middle class, if you want to call us that.

I make a decent wage, as I am a Unionized steel worker.

Still, those of you who have to fight for your jobs are getting screwed.

Cheers,

george

[pacmania_2001]

Our tax rates are pretty high in comparison to other western countries:

$0 – $6,000 : Nil

$6,001 – $21,600 : 17c for each $1 over $6,000

$21,601 - $52,000 : $2,652 plus 30c for each $1 over $21,600

$52,001 – $62,500 : $11,772 plus 42c for each $1 over $52,000

Over $62,500 : $16,182 plus 47c for each $1 over $62,500

Those are our income tax rates, on top of that we have the medicare levy which is another 1.5% of your income, plus the other taxes we pay like GST (10% on most products) and petrol tax (adds about 30 cents per litre to our fuel).

[gmatov]

Pacman,

That's a little under 26% at 62,500, ours, single payer, up to 68,800, is about 20.5 %. Our Medicare is 7.65 %, and matched by the employer. That makes us about equal at approx. 28 %.

Most of our states have their own income tax levy, as well as most of the cities, and even small communities.

Most of the states have a sales tax also, which can run from 1 % or less, to, I think, in one or the other state, 11 or 12 %.

Sin taxes is where they are trying to gouge us the most. Cigarettes have just gone up another 47 cents in Pennsylvania, for the illustrious purpose of paying doctors malpractice insurance premiums.

Reasonable, they say, as smokers use up more of the medical services. Well, we also tend to die sooner, so actually use up less.

But who'd argue that point when most of the pols are probably reformed sinners. Ex-smokers, that is.

We actually have a new mayor in New York City, an ex-smoker, who outlawed smoking in any public place in the city.

A video store owner was fined up to 6000 USD for having "smoking parapernalia" in his premises. An ash tray with a stubbed out cigarette in it. The smoking Gestapo flat nailed his ass.

Remember those Liberties I have mentioned slowly being taken away? A little here, a little there. Like putting a frog into a pot of cold water with a fire under it. You don't notice till your goose is cooked. (Sorry to mix metaphors, but kind of awkward to say frog is cooked.)

Ah, well,

Cheers,

George

[lordsmurf]

Not to be mean, but also remember Canadian dollars are worth about two-thirds USA dollars and Australian dollars are worth half USA dollars.

So remembering that, some of them are getting hosed, especially Aussie from Pac's info.

[BJ_M]

1 USD = 1.29161 CAD $