New nastier version of ARccOS released - Dec 8th

[cykedout]

Just thought I'd let people know that in some of the new releases this week, there is a newer version of ARccOS out. I discovered it in two (minor) dvds out -- Cool Money, starring James Marsters, and Kekexili Mountain Patrol, both from Sony Pictures Home Entertainment [Sony Pictures / Columbia Pictures respectively]. why they didn't hold this new variation back for release with bigger titles, I don't know.

Anyway, it utilises the same previous feature as prior releases i.e. dummy cells / blank unreferenced cells, etc., but the new twist here is that there is a there is a LAYER BREAK shift in these cells (multiple times) before the remainder of the movie cells. This means that DVD Shrink can't actually "shrink" the movie file. Vob Blanker won't even open them -- it fails in the inital read /analysis of the IFO files at 91% -- and FixVTS couldn't "wash" them either i.e. it failed right at the end when it's re-writing the IFOs and thus didn't fix the problem. I haven't tried to use any other programs / tools on it.

However, DVD Fab Decrypter / AnyDVD did manage to rip it to my hard drive, but after that is where the problems occur. You can get the movie only with DVD Shrink by reauthoring, backing up the movie uncompressed and then using Vob blanker to remove/blank the unreferenced cells, but you lose the whole menu structure of the dvd.

I guess that the guys from SlySoft, DVDIdle, etc will sort it out possibly in a few days, but can't do anything until then......

Let me know if anyone wants more info?

Cheers!

[jtoolman2000]

These guys are such idiots!! This will take like a day or so before an AnyDVD update that will handle this will appear.

[GullyFoyle]

I saw an .img of Mountain Patrol ( I'm assuming they are the same).
It sits at about 4 gigs.
I have no idea of the quality or how it would burn.

[ROF]

If you can rip the entire movie and actually want to back it up why don't you just use a disc that is comparable in size rather than destroying the quality of your backup by shrinking it?

[cykedout]

Just tested Mountain Patrol i.e. since it was less than 4 gigs, I burned it to an RW with Nero. It works, but the file re-allocation process at the start failed and produces a "non-compliant" dvd. However, Cool Money is more than 5 gigs, so you cannot keep the original dvd structure (at present) i.e. menus, scene select, etc, because you cannot shrink it, at least with DVD Shrink, at the moment. You can basically re-author and get just the movie on its own, but I don't really want that, like most others here. It may come to that, but it should be defeatable relatively soon.

[ROF]

I think you'll find the majority here are unable to help since these movies aren't due for release until next week.

[Noahtuck]

No wonder i could not find them for sale to check out

[cykedout]

Got access to them through a friend of mine before they were sent to the video shop of the guy he works for. Thought I'd give a heads up to people beforehand, though.

[GullyFoyle]

I think you'll find the majority here are unable to help since these movies aren't due for release until next week.

http://www.hkflix.com/xq/asp/filmID.535037/qx/details.htm
Ke Ke Xi Li: Mountain Patrol
THIS DVD IS PLAYABLE IN REGION 3 ONLY WITH NTSC EQUIPMENT

Already out.

[Rich86]

Anyway, it utilises the same previous feature as prior releases i.e. dummy cells / blank unreferenced cells, etc., but the new twist here is that there is a there is a LAYER BREAK shift in these cells (multiple times) before the remainder of the movie cells.

Terrific. A consumer dvd that bounces back and forth between layers multiple times just for fun and games. I'll bet that is a treat to watch (how long does this take?). And I bet it is good exercise for everyone's dvd players.

Once again - Sony demonstrates its total disregard for their customers by putting out shoddy products in a non-effective attempt to slow down copying at the expense of their legitimate customers' equipment and enjoyment of the product they purchased. All this - and these titles will still be copied ad nauseum and for sale on street corners. When will they learn.

What to do? - - stop buying this junk!

[cykedout]

I've taken a snapshot of the VTS_01.ifo file from the dvd's directory and I've uploaded it for show:

http://img179.imageshack.us/my.php?image=ifoexcerpt1aw.jpg

[Noahtuck]

THIS DVD IS PLAYABLE IN REGION 3 ONLY WITH NTSC EQUIPMENT

Unless you have a multiformat player or just rip it to dvdr to make it region free :P
Gonna have to get my hands on these and check them out.

[cykedout]

Just for clearance sake, it is the R2 versions I'm talking about, in Ireland and UK.

[ROF]

Anyway, it utilises the same previous feature as prior releases i.e. dummy cells / blank unreferenced cells, etc., but the new twist here is that there is a there is a LAYER BREAK shift in these cells (multiple times) before the remainder of the movie cells.

Terrific. A consumer dvd that bounces back and forth between layers multiple times just for fun and games. I'll bet that is a treat to watch (how long does this take?). And I bet it is good exercise for everyone's dvd players.

Once again - Sony demonstrates its total disregard for their customers by putting out shoddy products in a non-effective attempt to slow down copying at the expense of their legitimate customers' equipment and enjoyment of the product they purchased. All this - and these titles will still be copied ad nauseum and for sale on street corners. When will they learn.

What to do? - - stop buying this junk!

Disreguard for customers? Have you watched a film release on DVD in the USA? There is an FBI Warning against making copies of the media. Normal DVD Player/Recorder/Rom/Burner use with the original discs ignore these blank cells, dummy, unreferenced cells. During normal consumer use this copy protection system does not effect the consumer. The movie and all extra material is unhindered.

The difference recently is the use of multi-layer blank dummy or unreferenced cells. Garbled or error filled cell references are rejected and results in errors when using ripping tools.

See Madagascar.

[GullyFoyle]

Just for clearance sake, it is the R2 versions I'm talking about, in Ireland and UK.

People tend to forget that because something gets released in the US on a certain date does not mean it has not already been released in the rest of the world.
Asian dvd's are always released in Asia months before a US release.
European film and tv releases are before US in many cases.
Region coding is an just a burden these days. inexpensive dvd players do PAL to NTSC and tend to have hidden region menus.
So why maintain it? Why not just worldwide release on the same day?
Stupid, stupid big media.

[Rich86]

Yes ROF - I watch dvd's all the time. Every one of these mindless "copy protection" jump cell commands tells the player to jump to a different spot on the disc. I can watch it occur as the video stops and the front display shows the search commands on my player. If the latest attempt entails jumping back and forth between layers, then even more time will be consumed and our dvd players will jump around the disc even more.

In my post that you quoted, I did not mention anything about advocating copying - so what is the point of your nonsense reference to the fbi warning video clip on most dvd's these days? But now that you brought it up, if a person were to rip that same dvd and strip out all this jumping around - it will play with fewer pauses and provide a smoother viewing experience and result in less wear and tear on our dvd players.

What will be the end result of all this regarding Sony's paranoia about copying? Nothing. People who copy/sell bootleg dvd's will continue on unabated. The only impact is on Sony's paying customers.

Do I think Sony demonstrates total disregard for their customers these days? Absolutely. They have decided they can try to do whatever they want to our personal equipment whether it is ethical or not, in their quest to foil copying. Just ask anyone on this forum who doesn't have their own personal agenda controlling what they say.

And the appropriate response is the same - stop buying this junk merchandise from Sony/Columbia/Tristar. They will get the message. Let first4internet, suncomm and macrovision find something more productive to sell to society - or go the way of other companies who do not deserve to exist.

[RottenFoxBreath]

and remember folks,every time you try to back up a dvd,a little baby seal dies....

[BobK]

If you can rip the entire movie and actually want to back it up why don't you just use a disc that is comparable in size rather than destroying the quality of your backup by shrinking it?

There's a pretty significant difference between 'destroy' and 'degrade'. I don't think anyone (except maybe you) would consider the quality destroyed in most cases. Unless you can actually see a difference when watching the viewing is really not even degraded.

[Noahtuck]

and remember folks,every time you try to back up a dvd,a little baby seal dies....

and another terrorist group receives funding....

[RottenFoxBreath]

pmsl...yeh i forgot that..its another good reason not to backup dvds.

[ROF]

Yes ROF - I watch dvd's all the time. Every one of these mindless "copy protection" jump cell commands tells the player to jump to a different spot on the disc. I can watch it occur as the video stops and the front display shows the search commands on my player. If the latest attempt entails jumping back and forth between layers, then even more time will be consumed and our dvd players will jump around the disc even more.

Maybe it's your DVD player/recorder. Everyone I know, myself included, does not experience any pauses during normal playback. It's smoothless since normal DVD playback ignores these error, blank, or unreferenced cells.

[Rich86]

[Maybe it's your DVD player/recorder. Everyone I know, myself included, does not experience any pauses during normal playback. It's smoothless since normal DVD playback ignores these error, blank, or unreferenced cells.

You are quite mistaken. When playing these type dvds, the player must read and respond to the commands on the dvd to jump to a different cell in order to not attempt playing the corrupted cells. And yes - my dvd players are of high enough quality to actually indicate "search" via the front panel display, whenever cell jumps, title changes and layer changes are initiated by the disc. So far, these extraneous cell jumps have been limited to the very beginning of the feature film title, which is probably why someone who doesn't have sophisticated equipment and isn't terribly observant doesn't notice. So far . . .

[ROF]

Can you name a new release film which does this?

I've just checked the beginning of Madagascar, Dukes of Hazzard, Christmas with the Kranks, and Deuce Bigalow. In my recorder, two players, and my DVD-Rom I experience no cell jumps, searching, or other indication of the topic of this thread. At least nothing that effects normal playback.

[Steelfatboy]

Actually, my Philips DVP642 sometimes has problems with copy protection. You can hear the player searching the disc for where to go next, while the movie stutters. In addition, my wife's grandmother's cheap Cyberhome player skips parts of the movie because of copy protection. It happened on Polar Express three times! Why should she have to suffer? Sure, she could get a better player, but she's on a very fixed income. She just decided not to buy anymore movies instead.

[Rich86]

Can you name a new release film which does this?

I've just checked the beginning of Madagascar, Dukes of Hazzard, Christmas with the Kranks, and Deuce Bigalow. In my recorder, two players, and my DVD-Rom I experience no cell jumps, searching, or other indication of the topic of this thread. At least nothing that effects normal playback.

Well - try Madagascar again - it pauses and searches twice after telling it to play the movie via the menu and before actually beginning the main part of the movie. This is macrovision at work - cell jump instructions to avoid the corrupted cells purposely put on the disc to theoretically avoid copying. Since you peruse the forums quite a bit, I'm sure you realize this attempt at copy protection was effective for about 2 days.

[Noahtuck]

2 days....
I had it backed up the first 30 minutes after getting home with madagascar.
And that was before DVDFab Decrypter was updated for that title.

[cykedout]

Even getting the latest versions of AnyDVD, DVD Fab Decrypter, VobBlanker, etc., my Acoustic Solutions DVD player still freezes when you hit play on a backup of the R1 Stealth. I have to either use the GOTO button on my player OR chapter forward (about 4 mins) and then scan backwards because of these unreferenced cells.

Also, I've noticed that if you have dvd players going back form 2 or 3 years ago, they are going to struggle with all these new protections put into new releases. I have an old Wharfedale 750S and a Samsung 709 and some of the recent titles won't play or play properly on these players. Sony and Macrovision forget that some people are still using dvd players they may have bought up to a few years ago. Why are they spending millions just to save a few thousand, as the metaphor goes?????

[ROF]

Well - try Madagascar again - it pauses and searches twice after telling it to play the movie via the menu and before actually beginning the main part of the movie. This is macrovision at work - cell jump instructions to avoid the corrupted cells purposely put on the disc to theoretically avoid copying. Since you peruse the forums quite a bit, I'm sure you realize this attempt at copy protection was effective for about 2 days.

OK! Before it actually plays the movie this occurs, yet it doesn't effect anything while the actual movie is playing like your initial claim. This is nothing new either. DVD's I bought in the 90's do this. Most of my laserdiscs do this. It's quite common. But it's also unrelated to the thread topic. So in effect it doesn't do anything to lessen the experience unless you can't wait the three or four seconds it takes between hitting play and the actual movie beginning. There was a time when movies had previews and leader tape before the actual movie began playing. DVD has virtually eliminated this so waiting 3-4 seconds isn't such a bad thing considering people are still posting about not being able to back up Madagascar even when given directions on how some people have done it. I just hope the media industry continues this effort to stamp out illegal activity. It is illegal to reverse engineer copy protection in most locations on the planet and you can be put in jail in the US for doing so. The media industry is only trying to keep what is theirs. The consumer owns a license to watch the media content they do not own it outright. That's the mistake most people make.

[ROF]

It happened on Polar Express three times! Why should she have to suffer? Sure, she could get a better player, but she's on a very fixed income. She just decided not to buy anymore movies instead.

Sorry to hear about your issues but just to let you know my last two DVD players cost less than Polar Express. Fixed income or not, if she can afford movies she can afford a new player.

[Noahtuck]

It happened on Polar Express three times! Why should she have to suffer? Sure, she could get a better player, but she's on a very fixed income. She just decided not to buy anymore movies instead.

Sorry to hear about your issues but just to let you know my last two DVD players cost less than Polar Express. Fixed income or not, if she can afford movies she can afford a new player.

Do you even have clue as to how F'ing stupid that sound's ??
Of course you don't

You must live with some pretty crappy dvd player's...
Because even my cheapest by far is a cyberhome ($25.00 after rebate which i bought for my daughter) and it has lasted 2-3 years, but i pay $20.00 for a dvd, well, no one is leaving a dvd player lying on the floor to get stepped on, or scratched, or WE!!!

So maybe they should worry more about making dvd's more indestructible
than wasting money on how to protect their dvd's & keep people from making backup's.... my 3 year old grandson can wreak havoc on any disc, regardless if dvd or cd......

If with all this time, effort and $$$ they can't stop the average user that hangs out on this forum amongst many other's, from making backup's, why the hell do they think any of the so called "Bigtime" (or as you like to say, "violent criminal's") bootlegger's or big plant's in china or where ever will be slowed down
they are just grasping at straw's and fooling themselve's into thinking they are doing something

I could say more but, in 5 year's... i have never had 1 yellow card, even though many said i would get one for speaking my mind and common sense..... but i'm going to have to refrain because i'm sure i could get one now for what i could say