New nastier version of ARccOS released - Dec 8th

[Rich86]

Give it a break, ROF. You are pretty funny. Every time it is apparent that someone knows more than you and proves you wrong about something - you run off into a different topic/perspective/argument whether it has anything to do with the initial discussion or not. And then of course close your discussion with FBI and jail threats and nonsense - directed at someone whose only "crime" is reading, being observant and apparently knowing a little bit about what he is talking about!

By the way - laser discs are incapable of jumping around from place to place by themselves when played. Everything is recorded and played serially on them. You can cause it to jump chapters (much like skipping to tracks on a cd), if the laser disc being played was encoded with chapter stops. But there is no such thing as programmed delays or cell jumps. If you have/had a laser disc player capable of both sides play, then there is a delay while the read head assembly rotates around the disc to play the other side. But that's it. It plays straight through, with no ability to jump around on its own.

ROF says:
"The consumer owns a license to watch the media content they do not own it outright."

I say:
Maybe you should run your mouth at the movie studios who advertise DVD's on TV every weekend "OWN IT on Tuesday". Maybe you can convince them to change that to "give us your money in exchange for a dvd you can play if you agree to a EULA that says we might abuse your cd or dvd player, screw up your computer system and sue you if we get the urge".

These days - it is Sony executives who should be put in jail for what they did to customer computers via their cd merchandise!

By the way - I bought 2 copies of Polar Express for $13.99 each. If you paid less than $14 each for your last 2 dvd players, you should give one of them to your kid, along with a new "Bob the Builder" dvd and let the poor bugger off the hook for damaging his original "Bob The Builder" dvd. Maybe even show him how to make a backup of it first, so he can save the original from being damaged.

[Steelfatboy]

ROF, you miss the point. Because of new copy protection, one less person is buying DVDs. She usually only buys inexpensive kid's movies. Polar Express is the most expensive she has purchased. She didn't buy many DVDs and never would have. But if this starts happening to more and more people, it could start to have an impact.

Her player is less than a year old. She should not have to purchase a new one already, even if she could afford it. Of course, my wife and I are going to help her out and get her a player for Christmas but I'm sure there are many out there who won't be so lucky.

I'm thinking at the very least, there should be a warning on these dvds, stating they may not play in all players.

[ROF]

ROF says:
"The consumer owns a license to watch the media content they do not own it outright."

I say:
Maybe you should run your mouth at the movie studios who advertise DVD's on TV every weekend "OWN IT on Tuesday". Maybe you can convince them to change that to "give us your money in exchange for a dvd you can play if you agree to a EULA that says we might abuse your cd or dvd player, screw up your computer system and sue you if we get the urge".

I have no clue what your talking about.

Name any brand of CD or DVD Player or Media that has abused or screwed it up?

If you are referring to Sony's new Root Kit. It's now more than 72 hours since I've had it installed and connected to the net. I've played the movies we've discussed earlier in this thread on that system. No problems with the rootkit or any system resources being hogged and also no unannounced communication outside the network.

But in relation to this topic, the errors above cause no problems to stand alone DVD Players or DVD Burners except some older ones not being able to handle the error correction. This is nothing more than what has been happening since the dawn age of disc technology. Certainly nothing that effects current normal DVD viewing.

The unreferenced cells only effect copies and ripping technology that creates those copies. You do understand that correct?

By the way - laser discs are incapable of jumping around from place to place by themselves when played. Everything is recorded and played serially on them. You can cause it to jump chapters (much like skipping to tracks on a cd), if the laser disc being played was encoded with chapter stops. But there is no such thing as programmed delays or cell jumps. If you have/had a laser disc player capable of both sides play, then there is a delay while the read head assembly rotates around the disc to play the other side. But that's it. It plays straight through, with no ability to jump around on its own.

Why would you want a laser that goes around a disc? Wouldn't it be more cost effective to have two lasers? One on each side? What I think you're trying to explain here is that all past and current disc functionality requires the reading of a directory tree? Thanks for info. I probably never could have figured that out.

[ROF]

ROF, you miss the point. Because of new copy protection, one less person is buying DVDs. She usually only buys inexpensive kid's movies. Polar Express is the most expensive she has purchased. She didn't buy many DVDs and never would have. But if this starts happening to more and more people, it could start to have an impact.

Her player is less than a year old. She should not have to purchase a new one already, even if she could afford it. Of course, my wife and I are going to help her out and get her a player for Christmas but I'm sure there are many out there who won't be so lucky.

I'm thinking at the very least, there should be a warning on these dvds, stating they may not play in all players.

If she likes movies she'll appreciate a new DVD Player. It's nice to hear this.

I agree that disc boxes should have labels. Maybe even suggested and recommended setups to enjoy the content fully.

There should be a disclaimer on the disc packaging saying that this disc may not be playable in all disc players. I've felt that way since I got my first favorite CD and it wouldn't play in a friends old dashmount.

[dvdguy4]

What movies are known to have this "New Protection"? Anyone?

[somebodeez]

Maybe you should run your mouth at the movie studios who advertise DVD's on TV every weekend "OWN IT on Tuesday". Maybe you can convince them to change that to "give us your money in exchange for a dvd you can play if you agree to a EULA that says we might abuse your cd or dvd player, screw up your computer system and sue you if we get the urge".

Good point! I see those commercials on TV quite a lot.
False advertising? Hmmm...

[Rich86]

I have no clue . . . .

The unreferenced cells only effect copies and ripping technology that creates those copies.

Why would you want a laser that goes around a disc? Wouldn't it be more cost effective to have two lasers? One on each side? What I think you're trying to explain here is that all past and current disc functionality requires the reading of a directory tree? Thanks for info. I probably never could have figured that out.

The programs capable of backing up dvd's with corrupt/unreadable cells that I have read about actually ignore them while ripping and remove all reference to them, so they do not effect the copies at all. The copies actually play better than the original. After all, we are talking about unreadable corrupt cells here which do not belong on the disc at all. It's basically a defective dvd.

If you ever find a "directory tree" somewhere on a laser disc - you tell us all about it - because they do not exist. Although video laser discs are read via a laser, they are not encoded with any digital instruction technology. You should really stop trying to sound knowledgeable about video "laser discs" - because you obviously do not know anything about them - beyond shoving them into a player and watching.

But most of us agree - it is true - you really "do not have a clue" . . .

[whitejremiah]

I honestly gotta say, they have gone too far with the copy protection, ive rented one or two dvd's with the arcoss copy protection, and it IS IN FACT NOTICABLE during viewing (at least to me) one i watched was xxx: state of the union.......i noticed the video jumping for fractions of a second......of course i didnt bother backing this one up since it was one that i rented, and only a so so movie at that, but the point remins that if i HAD made a copy of it, if i owned the original....even to a dual layer disc, it wouldve probably played back BETTER than the original disc it was sourced from. Companies need to stop (pardon my language) screwing the consumers over...its really starting to get on my nerves, and probably a lot of other people's....and as far as the newer copy protections breaking compatability with older dvd players...i think the owners of the older dvd players should file a class action lawsuit against the companies that make the dvds......they are advertised to work on all dvd players, and they in fact do not. I'm honestly getting quite fed up with the big movie companies in general............i suppose thats why i havent bought too many movies in the last few years...and if i do, i will never buy them new, always used (cept gifts, of course). I still stand by my opinion though, that they are putting some awesome copy protection on their movies these days...no one will want to copy a movie that is pure crap, and thats what they are putting out (with VERY few exceptions, and those are mostly put out by smaller movie companies anyhow.....)


Reguarding laser discs:
ive never actually owned a laser disc player myself, but from how i understand it, the audio tracks are in fact digital, but the video isnt even truly digital, but its more like a large series of JPG's (sorry, closest comparison i could think of to compare it to) that are shown on the fly rather than one streaming file (or several files that merge on the fly, like a dvd) there definately is NOT a set file structure to my understanding.......and PLEASE google about stuff like this before you start talking like you have any clue as to what your speaking about.

[cykedout]

Back on topic, anyone know if SlySoft or DVDIdle or any other software guys have looked at this new variant of ARccOS yet?

[fengtao]

Hi cykedout,

My name is Fengtao, the author of software DVDFab, DVDIdle, etc.

For the new ARccOS, could you please send me all the .IFO files, so that I can check the problem asap? Thanks.

You can drag&drop all the .IFO files on Original!! disc, then send to me at fengtao (at) dvdidle.com

Best Regards,
Fengtao

[lacywest]

Anyway, it utilises the same previous feature as prior releases i.e. dummy cells / blank unreferenced cells, etc., but the new twist here is that there is a there is a LAYER BREAK shift in these cells (multiple times) before the remainder of the movie cells.

Terrific. A consumer dvd that bounces back and forth between layers multiple times just for fun and games. I'll bet that is a treat to watch (how long does this take?). And I bet it is good exercise for everyone's dvd players.

Once again - Sony demonstrates its total disregard for their customers by putting out shoddy products in a non-effective attempt to slow down copying at the expense of their legitimate customers' equipment and enjoyment of the product they purchased. All this - and these titles will still be copied ad nauseum and for sale on street corners. When will they learn.

What to do? - - stop buying this junk!

How about Stealth ? ... I've noticed several areas in scene changes where it pauses long enuff to wonder what is going on ... I put the original DVD of Stealth in and watched it again and sure enuff ... there are pauses [not as bad as the backed up copy] in the movie that kind of takes the fun out of watching the movie.

I don't like leaving my store bought movies lying around near my sound system ... my cute little pug puppy has developed this habit of leaving carpet bombs on my rug ... in front of my DVD Recorders. I use Panasonic and Pioneer DVD Recorders and I haven't checked to see if the Pioneer DVD Recorder is also pausing. My dog can't bomb my DVD Recorders but I have found some of my burnt DVDs ... soiled. I don't leave them lying on the rug anymore.

[ROF]

The programs capable of backing up dvd's with corrupt/unreadable cells that I have read about actually ignore them while ripping and remove all reference to them, so they do not effect the copies at all. The copies actually play better than the original. After all, we are talking about unreadable corrupt cells here which do not belong on the disc at all.

Hmm . . . then I guess this entire thread and others like it are not needed and can be removed as they all start with ripping or copying tools being unable to read past or remove the unreferenced cells?

Please Re-Read the original post to learn why the thread was started. Examine why Madagascar is harder to rip then others then tell me that these ripping tools ignore the unreferenced cells. My DVD recorder has no problems playing the disc, yet shrink has a problem while analyzing it. Hmmm . . . maybe I know a little more than someone here?

[ROF]

Maybe you should run your mouth at the movie studios who advertise DVD's on TV every weekend "OWN IT on Tuesday". Maybe you can convince them to change that to "give us your money in exchange for a dvd you can play if you agree to a EULA that says we might abuse your cd or dvd player, screw up your computer system and sue you if we get the urge".

Good point! I see those commercials on TV quite a lot.
False advertising? Hmmm...

False advertising? Anytime I'm in an area where this commercial is broadcast the movie is available that Tuesday. Where's the false advertising? I purchase or rent the discs all the time on those dates.

[ROF]

What movies are known to have this "New Protection"? Anyone?

The list is quite extensive and will be growing as the weeks ramble on.

[somebodeez]

Maybe you should run your mouth at the movie studios who advertise DVD's on TV every weekend "OWN IT on Tuesday". Maybe you can convince them to change that to "give us your money in exchange for a dvd you can play if you agree to a EULA that says we might abuse your cd or dvd player, screw up your computer system and sue you if we get the urge".

Good point! I see those commercials on TV quite a lot.
False advertising? Hmmm...

False advertising? Anytime I'm in an area where this commercial is broadcast the movie is available that Tuesday. Where's the false advertising? I purchase or rent the discs all the time on those dates.

"OWN IT on Tuesday"
The key word here is OWN.
So if we buy it, we OWN it according to the advertisements.

Sheesh. I thought that was simple enough for anybody

[ROF]

You do own it. You can watch it at anytime you want for life of the disc and a compatible player/recorder/burner. I think you are mistaking owning the media and owning the content. You have never purchased any media and owned the content.

If you purchase a newspaper you own the paper. You do not own the articles. If you purchase a game you own the game. You do not own the gaming engine. If you purchase a CD you own the CD. You do not own the audio tracks. If you purchase a DVD you own the Video DVD. You do not own the content.

The only people who don't own it on tuesdays are those who don't purchase the media. But even if they do they must have a compatible player in order to view it.

[cykedout]

Just sent the IFOs to fengtao, so hopefully it should be sorted out soon enough.

[mattso]

I just hope the media industry continues this effort to stamp out illegal activity.

Man, you deserve the Citizen of the Year Award!

[ROF]

Thanks for the vote of support but I'm quite someone else is more deserving of this prestigious award.

[greymalkin]

you forgot how those that make copies are doing so "viciously"

[Rich86]

Examine why Madagascar is harder to rip then others then tell me that these ripping tools ignore the unreferenced cells. My DVD recorder has no problems playing the disc, yet shrink has a problem while analyzing it. Hmmm . . . maybe I know a little more than someone here?

You have demonstrated repeatedly that you know very little more than anyone else here - except how to keep talking whether you know what you speak of or not.

My comment said: "The programs capable of backing up dvd's with corrupt/unreadable cells that I have read about actually ignore them while ripping and remove all reference to them, so they do not effect the copies at all."

My comment is accurate - and stands as accurate - and YOU should learn how to read.

[ROF]

You have demonstrated repeatedly that you know very little more than anyone else here - except how to keep talking whether you know what you speak of or not.

My comment said: "The programs capable of backing up dvd's with corrupt/unreadable cells that I have read about actually ignore them while ripping and remove all reference to them, so they do not effect the copies at all."

My comment is accurate - and stands as accurate - and YOU should learn how to read.

I respect your opinion to not agree with mine but I invite you to examine the topic of this thread and the original post. Do a search for ARccOS and how it effects ripping tools then maybe we can continue.

Unless your comments are going to discuss that I'm sorry I can't continue this interesting yet truely off topic discussion about how ARccOS doesn't effect you and your ripping ability.

[Rich86]

I respect your opinion to not agree with mine but I invite you to examine the topic of this thread and the original post. Do a search for ARccOS and how it effects ripping tools then maybe we can continue.

Unless your comments are going to discuss that I'm sorry I can't continue this interesting yet truely off topic discussion about how ARccOS doesn't effect you and your ripping ability.

This actually has nothing to do with me - or your assumed "ripping ability" accusations that you throw around at folks in this forum like so much cow dung. It has to do with technical accuracy in what you say - which you appear to be completely incapable of. Do some homework yourself on how programs successfully make backup copies of dvd titles that have these corrupt, unreadable cells inserted in them. They don't do it by actually reading the "unreadable" cells.

As far as your threat to not continue your discussion - let me be the first to shout hallelujah!!

[Noahtuck]

you forgot how those that make copies are doing so "viciously"

Now Now... don't misquote ROF
It was "Violent Criminals"

Ya know, reading some of ROF's ing,
I just thought of something that could be a serious problem!!!!

Can you imagine how many hundreds of thousands of people they could sue walking around with copyrighted characters tattooed on their bodies

Hell!! just one of my friend's has at least 4 copyrighted characters on him right now!!!!!

[mattso]

Can I just show you something?

http://www.ezydvd.com.au/new_rel.zml

Just have a quick scroll down & look at the big obtrusive classifications on the front covers of most of these DVDs.

They aren't stickers, they are PRINTED on top of the original artwork.

This is what is happening here in Australia.

Surely if I pay money for an original DVD, I would expect nice packaging - NOT this hysterical "family-values" nonsense?

ROF, you've yet to lay your case down for us, apart from your "strict obedience to the law" crap. Laws suck. We're over-governed by piddling schizophrenic paedophiles.

[GullyFoyle]

Hi cykedout,

My name is Fengtao, the author of software DVDFab, DVDIdle, etc.

For the new ARccOS, could you please send me all the .IFO files, so that I can check the problem asap? Thanks.

You can drag&drop all the .IFO files on Original!! disc, then send to me at fengtao (at) dvdidle.com

Best Regards,
Fengtao

In case no one has said it yet, Thank you for an excellent product line.

[waheed]

ROF, have you ever made a backup of a commercial DVD?

[ROF]

Yes I had prior to learning that it was illegal for the end user to make backups of thier media. I still do so when the need arises such as the many Madagascar threads here. I used a DVD-RW for testing purposes and deleted the backup within a 24 hour period. I may try Sky High sometime soon for the same reasoning and under the same conditions.

Why do you ask?

[BobK]

Yes I had prior to learning that it was illegal for the end user to make backups of thier media.

Of course ignorance of the law is no excuse.

Yes I had prior to learning that it was illegal for the end user to make backups of thier media. I still do so when the need arises such as the many Madagascar threads here. I used a DVD-RW for testing purposes and deleted the backup within a 24 hour period. I may try Sky High sometime soon for the same reasoning and under the same conditions.

So you spend half your life here berating people who you claim are breaking the law while doing the same thing yourself- and then you rationalize that it's okay for you to violate the same law because your have different reasons- reasons which are not acceptable under DCMA.

[solarfox]

Reguarding laser discs:
ive never actually owned a laser disc player myself, but from how i understand it, the audio tracks are in fact digital, but the video isnt even truly digital, but its more like a large series of JPG's (sorry, closest comparison i could think of to compare it to) that are shown on the fly

Just for the record:

The information on a Laserdisc is stored as a frequency-modulated (FM) signal, recorded as pits and lands of variable length. The video information is analog, and stored not much differently (at least in concept) than the method used for videotapes. In addition, you have two tracks of analog audio, and two tracks of digitally-encoded PCM audio, stored along with the video.

They do contain some very, very rudimentary playback-control capabilities, but it's not much more than the ability to make the player pause itself at the end of a chapter-stop until told to proceed forward by the user. It has no "virtual machine" that can run complex playback-control programs, the way a DVD does.