DVD2AVI => "Interlaced".. What to do now?

[jbenj01]

Can someone point me to a clear/concise guide on the 'manual' process of what to do when DVD2AVI yields a DVD to be "interlaced", please?? I need to de-interlace, correct??

Usually, i end up with 'progressive' or 'FILM' material, which i then just select "Forced FILM", then proceed to create my .d2v, frameserve with Avisynth and import into CCE, etc...

Not sure how to proceed in this case.. Do I somehow add a 'de-interlace' line in the Avisynth script? Thanks.

[FOO]

It's not clear what you are trying to do. Are you trying to
back up a DVD and need to make it smaller ?

[jbenj01]

Sorry.. Yes, I'm backing up DVD to DVD-R, manually (not one-click), using IFOedit, DVD2AVI, Avisynth, CCE, Pulldown and Maestro..

I'm a little 'lost' b/c the original DVD video is NTSC/interlaced.. I'm usually accustomed to just setting the "Field Operation" setting to "Forced FILM" in DVD2AVI.. But that's not the case with this movie.. Video Type is "NTSC" and Video Frame is "Interlaced"..

So i know i'm to leave the Field Operation setting to "None".. But i remember in one guide, which i can't find anymore, there was a 'de-interlace' process for the video...

hope this is clearer.. thanks.

[FOO]

You should not de-interlace that . The encoder will not like it.
Sounds like either Hard Telecine or "real" 30 fps.
If it is hard telecine , you might get away with doing a IVTC.
If I was doing it and wasn't short of space i would just encode
interlaced as is.

[adam]

I agree. Turn off forced film and load the d2v file into TMPGenc and use the preview function. Scroll through it frame by frame. If you see 3 whole progressive frames for every interlaced field then its hard telecined and an inverse telecine will work perfectly. You will recognize the interlacing when you see it. It looks like a comb of a picture, ie: every other scan line is missing. BTW: you need to jump throughout the movie to test. The pattern can change.

If your film is hard telecined, which is usually the case with interlaced footage on commercial NTSC DVDs, just add these lines to your AVS script.

Telecide()
Decimate(cycle=5)

The result will be 23.976fps progressive frames, which is what you would have gotten if forced film were possible, so you should know what to do from there.

If you get any other pattern of progressive to interlaced frames than an IVTC may still be possible but will be more work and may miss some fields. I'd just keep it interlaced. The final possibility is that your source is pure interlaced which means that there are no progressive frames at all. You should definitely keep these interlaced.

[jbenj01]

Foo and Adam, thanks..

Here's what I found.. preview in TMPG shows 3 progressive frames, then 2 interlaced.. i checked throughout the movie and it's consistent.. I see 3 clear frames (progressive), then 2 interlaced frames (combed)..

I'm guessing that in this case, one interlaced field = 2 interlaced frames? And that one complete cycle = 5 frames?

So my Avisynth script w/b something like this??:

mpeg2source("c:\path to .d2v")
lanczosresize(720,480)
assumefps(23.976)
telecide()
decimate(cycle=5)

Thanks again.

[jbenj01]

Hmm?? I just tested this script in Windows Media Player:

mpeg2source("I:\WILLARD\files\willard.d2v")
lanczosresize(720,480)
assumefps (23.976, true)
Telecide()
Decimate(cycle=5)

I received a "Script error: No function named Telecide". I'm using Avisynth 2.52... Please advise.

[adam]

Sorry, I forgot to mention that those commands use the decomb.dll filter. Put it in your Avisynth/Plugins directory and then try again.

Also remove the assumefps command, that will give you ridiculous results. It will slow the movie down to 23.976fps, then run an IVTC filter. You will end up with a framerate of like 18fps.

If your source is 29.97fps and you run an ivtc script then it gives you 23.976fps output so there is no reason to use any temporal adjustment filters, ie: assumefps.

[jbenj01]

Adam,

I downloaded Decomb.dll 5.00 and copied into my systerm32 (Win2k) AND into the Avisynth plugin folder. Here's the new Avisynth error:

"Telecide: must specify order parameter (0=bff, 1=tff)"..

It says refer to user manual--where can i get a hold of a 'manual'? Thanks!

[SLK001]

There's a 2.52 version of DECOMB that doesn't require you to specify the field order (the last 4b2 version, IIRC) - use this one.

Also, tell us what you are backing up. It may be that your video doesn't have the proper flags set, so AVI2DVD is not telling you the correct frame structure (there are hard telecined projects that date from the early days of DVD, but they are fairly rare these days). I'm not saying that it really isn't hard telecined, but I recommend that you try your experiment with VIDEO>FORCE FILM set to true.

[manono]

Hi-

You can still use Decomb 5.00 (it's a bit faster than 4.10b4). Just make your script like this:

Telecide(Order=1,Guide=1).Decimate(5)

You should have gotten the "manual" together with the Decomb.dll. And as adam said, lose the AssumeFPS(23.976).

[jbenj01]

Thanks for the responses. I'm backing up Willard (2003). Well, the manual process of examing the video in TMPG preview revealed 3 prog frames to 2 interl'd.. SLK, so that does not constitute 'hard telecined'??

Another thing, i used manono's script and it worked.. thanks. But DVD2AVI is telling me Interlaced frames.. but when i checked with Bitrate viewer, it's telling me progressive..?? i know both are not always accurate.. But wouldn't examing the video with TMPG give me accurate results?

[SLK001]

Thanks for the responses. I'm backing up Willard (2003). Well, the manual process of examing the video in TMPG preview revealed 3 prog frames to 2 interl'd.. SLK, so that does not constitute 'hard telecined'??

Another thing, i used manono's script and it worked.. thanks. But DVD2AVI is telling me Interlaced frames.. but when i checked with Bitrate viewer, it's telling me progressive..?? i know both are not always accurate.. But wouldn't examing the video with TMPG give me accurate results?

If you ran DVD2AVI in the VIDEO>NONE mode, then you will see a telecined video. Run it in the >FORCE FILM mode, and see if these interlaced frames are there (if so, then it definitely is HARD TELECINED). However, since it was an original theatrical release, I would imagine that it is regular FILM.

I have seen what you are seeing before and the video was really true FILM. The flags in this video were put down so badly, I was amazed that it ever played.

[jbenj01]

SLK,

You are correct. With Force FILM activated, DVD2AVI spat out a new d2v that revealed ALL progressive frames -- no 'combed' frames after checking at various points thruout video.. Thank you. So I should always double-check with Force FILM activated to check if video is hard telecined (if original results in DVD2AVI says 'interelaced'), yes?

NOW.. how the heck do you tell if it's truly "Field Top First" or "..bottom.."?? I usually find that most NTSC DVD's are top field. but Willard 2003 is NOT top field, according to Bitrate Viewer.. Guess the question is, what do I set it to in CCE.. ?

[SLK001]

If your flags were not correct as to the interlace/film issue, then I suspect that they won't be for the TFF or BFF issue (and all Bitrate Viewer looks at is the flags). Assume that they are ALL top field first to start with, and look at high motion scenes to check for jerkiness. If you see any jerkiness, then (and only then) go for bottom field first (or better yet, use a SWAPFIELDS command).

[jbenj01]

Sorry.. Where/When am I to check for jerkiness/jumpy scenes? With the d2v file or do i re-encode a small clip of a fast motion scene with CCE and check?

I already started the re-encoding process with the new d2v/avisynth script as I normally do..

[SLK001]

Create the .AVS script that you want to use, then load it into VirtualDub. Find a high motion scene, and step through the video a frame at a time. If there are problems, every other frame will appear to "step back" in time (RE: jerk).

Anyway, if your film is progressive, then there is really no TFF or BFF. Just encode normally.