Capturing TV Shows, Editing Out Commercials and Writing DVD?

[Igilima]

Hi. I've been doing some thrashing while trying to accomplish the three objectives in the subject of this post.

My objective is to get a set of TV shows on DVD without commercials and at as good quality as possible. Nothing new there, I guess.

What I have is a Hauppuage WinTV PVR 250, a couple Athlon PC's (1700XP and 2600XP - both with RAID), alot of hard drive space (over 500GB), a bunch of RAM and a Verbatim 2.4X DVD+RW drive. My available software packages include Sonic MyDVD, WinTV2000, Ulead MovieFactory SE, Nero burning software and Ulead VideoSudio (I think).

Up until I started writing the DVD's, I thought I was doing pretty good. The PC with the Hauppuage in it was recording scheduled shows (once I got it to work right) at high DVD quality and I was able to cut the commercials using MovieFactory. During these two steps, I rarely lost audio sync (at least not noticeably on 30 minute shows) and only occasionally got an audio error during the re-encode after commercials were cut.

The problems started when I tried to create a DVD. I can't get my Verbatim DVD drive to write video DVD's to Memorex or Fuji DVD+R media. It will write to Imation DVD+R, Verbatim DVD+R (I think) and both Fuji and Verbatim DVD+RW. OK, I can deal with that (but if anyone has any hints, they're welcome to give them.)

My biggest problem is that when the DVD's are played on a standalone DVD player, the video flickers/jitters very badly (especially along edges of objects) when the camera pans or objects move within the picture. This problem is not apparent on a computer, though. I tried just writing one recording straight from initial capture to DVD (with commercials) and that seems to eliminate the visual problems. Except, I really want to ditch those commercials. I'm guessing the jitter problem comes from the re-encode.

Does anyone know, if I capture to AVI initially, cut commercials, and then encode to DVD quality MPEG2, will I lose the jitter problem? I hope that this is a possible solution. Unfortunately, my WinTV PVR250 doesn't seem like it will record to AVI...so now I am looking for a GOOD capture device that will let me schedule (channel changes at specified times) and capture to AVI. The WinTV PVR PCI seems like it might do this but the PVR 250 has already been a bit of a problem child.

I saw that the Canopus ADVC 100 got high marks. I'm guessing that you can't schedule with that though?

Sorry if any of these questions duplicate other newbie questions. Any positive input would be appreciated. Thanks.

[qpskfec]

For a little more $$ than the advc 100, you can get a set-top dvd recorder. It will do timer recordings. I can take the dvd created by my set-top recorder and transfer the vobs to my pc to edit out the commercials, then author/burn a new dvd.

For a few more $$, you can get a set top recorder with a hard drive. Then you can edit out the commercials before burning a dvd. You have a +RW drive - I haven't heard of any +RW's with hard drive yet, so if you want this, you'll probably have to go with a -RW recorder.

[Igilima]

qpskfec, two or three questions:

Noob question: How do you edit vobs? (What software?)

Do you have trouble with audio sync?

Is the quality of your final (commercials removed) DVD noticeably worse than the show on TV or the initial DVD (with commercials)?

Do you mind posting a list of your hardware setup so I can price it and maybe reproduce it?

[ImaWeTodd]

Hang in there. Analog capture to DVD is not an easy process. I'd say it covers almost all topics on this site.

The jitter is probably due to interlace/field order issues. TV is interlaced PC is not. It will only show on TV.

Here is my advice:

Easy but limited Method:
- Capture with hadware recorder ($??) or ReplayTV ($??) type device
- Get the MPeg out and edit with Womble ($150?) May still have audio sync problem
- Author / Burn the DVDs

Down Side is you have trouble cleaning bad source. Cut/Join mpeg it not easy. Bitrates/audio type rates, etc are limited unless you move out of the easy area.

Longer but complete control:
-Get a cheap avi capture card ($30) and cap to mjpeg (codec ~ $20)
-Edit and clean source in Vdub (free)
-Encode Audio (ac3 if you want BeSweet is free) Video (encoder ~ ?)
- Author / Burn DVDs


I do the second, but it is not quick to learn. However, you can get great results.

I:
- Capture with an Aver card using VirtualVCR which is easy to schedule using TitanTV (Morgan MJPEG codec)
- Edit/cut commercials and clean the video in Vdub (45min per 1/2hr ep)
- Encode Mpeg in Mainconcepts and ac3 (15 min per ep)
- Author / Burn (1/2 hr for menus 32min to burn)

It probably takes me 2 short nights to create a 5 episode disc after capture. Most of that is batch time not me sittin there.

[Igilima]

Thanks for the post ImaWeTodd. I will definitely try some of what you have suggested, especially any of it that is free.

Someone at work is lending me their USB 2.0 capture device (it's just a little box on a USB cable) so I will probably be trying that this week-end. But I suspect the capture process has to be managed rather than allow scheduling and it definitely won't change channels since it has just a composite/s-video connection.

I was definitely wondering about interlacing causing the flicker problem but I couldn't find anywhere in my setup where I could configure to interlace or de-interlace. The only thing I found in one place was A Frame vs B Frame or something like that.

I'm willing to put out money for a system that will work but unless I know it will work, you can understand my hesitation with putting out more money. )

[handiman876]

i've done what you're attempting with great results. it sounds like your doing everything correctly. i have two suggestions. first, use the nanocosmos tool from the hauppage web site. others may be easier but several i tried caused problems when burning. second, upgrade to ulead movie factory 2. it burns it straight with no conversion and has worked everytime. just suggestions - peace out.

[ImaWeTodd]

Since you are a self described noob, read this post.

It seems like a rant, but he offers some good and true advice on just your subject.

I'd buy cheap hardware and use free sw as you get to know what's what.

cheers

[cz9h3d]

I have a PVR-250. I would suggest you look at TMPG DVD-Author. This tool allowed me to remove commercials without losing audio sync (and works much easier and more reliable than the nanoPEG crap that comes with the board). Then you just use DVD-Author to add any menus and/or chapter points and burn your DVD. No reencoding takes place, and the output of the kids cartoons I've done looks as good as the original broadcast. The software has a free 30 day trial so you'll be able to try it out to see if it does what you want.

[Igilima]

Thanks for the link ImaWeTodd. I read the whole thing and will try out all the software (the free ones anyway) that the author suggested.

Thank you also for your suggestions cz9h3d. I will try the procedures you suggested.

I think my main goal right now is to see if I can capture to AVI using a scheduler. Unfortunately my Hauppauge 250 won't go to AVI. I guess I just need to experiment a bunch.

[cz9h3d]

I think my main goal right now is to see if I can capture to AVI using a scheduler. Unfortunately my Hauppauge 250 won't go to AVI. I guess I just need to experiment a bunch.

Why capture to AVI if you already have hardware encoding with the PVR-250? The PVR-250 eliminates the need to encode an AVI file to MPEG2 for DVD use! This eliminates a potentially complicated (depending on how deep you want to go into encoding options) and time-consuming step! That's why you paid more for your PVR-250 vs. one of the cheaper tv boards that only captures to AVI. Sure, software MPEG encoding from an AVI file would probably be better with the right encoder/settings, but for recording from broadcast I certainly haven't noticed any artifacts in my DVD's.

[Igilima]

Well, the main reason I was thinking of going to AVI first was so that I can edit out the commercials without encoding twice to mpeg2. The double encode is what seems to be producing the flicker/jitter problems I am seeing on my DVD's. I doubt there is a way to get rid of commercials without re-encoding is there? Unless maybe I chop the video into pieces...but I am hearing that that isn't possible with mpeg2. I'll experiment with the free software that has been suggested here but my hopes are declining when it comes to editing mpeg2.

At the same time, I am seeing problems in the video I encoded to mpeg2 straight off the PVR 250. I recorded the Enterprise episode from Wednesday night and wrote it straight to DVD+RW with commercials. There wasn't any flicker but there was some occasional chunkiness in the video. I also just recorded an episode of Andy Griffith at 12mbit/sec CBR and there are occasional halts (momentary freeze-ups or frames dropped) in the recording. I was hoping that if I captured at really high quality, maybe I can edit and re-encode without getting the flickers. Maybe it is because I set the quality level so high that it is dropping/freezing frames? Or is it my player? It is WinDVD on an Athlon 1700 with IDE RAID.

What settings do you use with your PVR 250?

[cz9h3d]

First of all, you can edit out the commercials from the MPEG 2 file and not have to reencode. The NanoPEG editor that came with your PVR-250 is meant to do this, but as I previously mentioned TMPGenc DVD-Author can also do this much much much better and create your final DVD too (I've seen a lot of posts recommending Womble too, but I haven't tried it.)

I've always used the DVD standard play settings - although I've seen some posts that suggest you should define your own.

Just do a search in the forums for PVR-250....you'll find a lot of discussions regarding favorite editors (form the MPEG file), burning to DVD, etc.

This site (http://www.shspvr.com/) is dedicated to Hauppauge products, and you may find some additional useful info in the FAQ'a and the Forums.

[Igilima]

Great. I will have to try out those programs and see what comes out of it. I was going to do it today but ended spending a bunch of time climbing a tree... Yup, had to cut down some huge tree branches and stuff that were dead and hanging over the neighbor's yard. Tired, sore, scratched and my upper lip feels swolen because a little branch whipped out and snapped me in the face...grr. Maybe I should have paid the $800 to get the whole tree whacked!

[frankb]

Hi Igilima,

I use the Pinncale PC TV Pro TV tuner card. I capture with the included software at "DVD LP (Longplay)". (When I tried capturing at full DVD quality, I had jitter problems as well.) The captures are MPEG2.

I use TMPGEnc DVD Author (30-day Trial version available), to edit out the commercials (once you get the hang of it this is VERY easy). I then generate the DVD files and structure from TMPGEnc DVD Author.

I burn the results to DVD using Nero 5.5.something.something (latest 5.5 update).

Works like a charm for me all the time. The "DVD LP" quality is good enough for me. (btw: I live in a PAL region but I guess the same would apply if you are NTSC-inclined...).

Frank