Toast 6 and iDVD

[neutodvd]

Just received my copy of Toast 6 and am installing it. It seems to have some great new features. A post from awhile ago about this product said that it would support burning an iDVD project to an external firewire drive.
Is this possible or did I misunderstand. Thanks. I am looking great in my new Toast T-Shirt.

[tgpo]

That's what the reports from Roxio said. I don't ahve a copy yet, so I can't instruct on how do it, but from Roxio's mouth, it should do it.

[galactica]

Same here, i put my order in but have not recieved it yet. When did you order yours? I cant wait!!!!!!

[schwinn]

I got my copy today! It does look promising! Burned a data file fine. Look it burns SVCD and you can do Menues with buttons! I have a SVCD video file ready to burn! Oh disk needs 80mb more space then I have bummer. Ok what about just burning as a regular SVCD without the menue? Oh it needs 40mbs more disk space then the 700mb disk has. Odd this would work as a bin/cue file or even on a PC! Ok gave up on that turned into a bin/cue file with "missing media tools" and it did burn it and it plays and even fast forwards and reverse!! Toast 6 has a bin/cue setting and you can use either the bin or cue for burning. Toast 5 let you burn the bin file but fast forward and reverse never worked on my DVD player.Looking at the burned file they were a bit different then standard SVCD files. So this is an improvement it now burns standard SVCD files from a bin/cue. Too bad the SVCD burn & or menue making doesn't let you use the full 800mb but restricks you to 700mb just like a data file. They need to fix that! I am going to try making a DVD with menue and buttons next. I'll report back if anyone wants to hear about that. Spin Dr 2 looks really promising and also has data backup with auto burning.

[the future]

I am going to try making a DVD with menue and buttons next. I'll report back if anyone wants to hear about that.

Of course we want to hear about that! Please report in detail!

[schwinn]

Ok running into trouble figureing out how to do Menues and buttons in DVD. Oh I did manage to find out the way to burn a SVCD ready mpeg file with or wihout menues. You make a toast Image file first an I choice better quality rather then standard quality. Ok it took 40 minutes to make the image and burn the disk. I didn't do a menue as haven't yet figured that out. I've only been working with this a couple of hours so give me a break . Looks good but oh no! Just like burning a SVCD bin file in Toast 5 fast forward and reverse don't work! Bummer maybe they'll get this right one day. I see two files are missing on the CD which is likely why it doesn't work correctly. Some stand alone machines may not need them. However mine generally plays anything. Time to make a bin/cue file and burn 12 minutes(without useing Toast) and it plays correctly fast forward etc work. So 28 minutes extra and the money spend on Toast of course doesn't look so well spent...

The PDF manual seems mostly well written but even though it tells how to make a menu and buttons. It seems to lack any useful info in this area
i will figure out and report on how it goes.

[Dunnyman]

Dunno about iDVD, but it seems to convert anything, have burned several VCD's SVCD's and DVD's so far, the default menu works nicely, if you're not into getting fancy, slower than dirt so far, but for an all in one encoder-burner, I can't complain. Interface is gorgeous, but a friend of mine who is an Apple retailer said Roxio will be having an update that allows custom skins as well as giving more options for backgrounds and menu design. They just wanted to get the product shipped. No word on whether the update will be free though. Hopefully it is.
So far, 3.5 stars out of 5
(Also, despite it's no so speedy working, it doesn't take over your system the way it used to, BIG PLUS!)

[milatchi]

Ooh! I can't wait for it to get here!
I knew I going was going to buy Toast 6. They had me at "free T-Shirt", after that nothing else mattered.

[schwinn]

Ok here is my short report on making a DVD with menues and buttons. I was never sure I'd gotten the menue and buttons correct as it doesn't seem to have any preview of what they will look like. I was making this DVD with 6 apox 23 min DVD ready mpeg files and a menue and buttons (hopefully for each file) I let it run for 12 hours. The graph bar makes it look like this process will take somewhere betweeen 3-4 days plus!!!! Before you laugh at me for trying this on my "old" G3 550MHz machine please note I can do the whole thing using "Capty DVD" in 40 min apox. I should also note the Capty DVD disk plays really well and looks good with menue and buttons.
Ok with the new Toast 6 I can now burn a bin /cue SVCD that meets standards and plays well in most any DVD player. So I get that and a new interface. I feel at this point that many people who already own Toast 5 will think they've just wasted their money. I know I do!
I am open to the fact that either i've missed something and need to try again or that it will improve with future upgrades. Toast seems to re-encode all the files which shouldn't need to be done with files that are already correct format.
At this point I say save your money. I'll look forward to learning more and seeing what others have to say.

[chikanakan]

So far, Toast 6 as been awesome for me. The quality is excellent and it is the fasting thing I've seen besides iDVD. There is now way Capty DVD is encoding in 40 minutes. Maybe if you have already encoded MPEG. I've done several comparisons with Toast 6 and Capty and Capty was crap. Quality sucks and colors of way off.

Toast 6 as been well worth the money for me. The menus work fine. Toast doesn't re-encode content unless it is out of spec or has problems from what I've seen.

If you are using ADS to record MPEG then you may get better quality since it is hardware. Seems like you really have no idea what you are saying anyway. If you were using the Capty files recorded in MPEG 2 and it takes time to encode, it is because the Capty files are out of spec and have to be fixed.

[schwinn]

Well that was friendly I'm in no way an expert on this subject. In fact I've only made a few DVD's. However I have made many VCD's & SVCD's so know a bit about the process. I was simply telling how it goes for me as I fumble through learning the process. I did use Mpeg 2 DVD ready files 720X480 29.97 fps. A friend encoded them for me using high end software on a PC and send by way of the internet. They play really well using Quicktime and look just as good on the burned DVD using Capty DVD. Which did only take 40 min to format for burning as a DVD. No encoding was done by capty. I was guessing Toast was re-encoding them since it took so long and as I said I gave up. I was hoping for some pointers on how to use Toast 6 but on my own saw no reason to since Capty worked so well for me. Glad it worked for you.

[BernieR]

have you guys received the boxed version or are you d/l online???

.....still waiting for my damn one to come in the mail!

Bernie

[chikanakan]

Well, if you got the files from the PC, it is possilbe they need to be re-encode by Toast. My experience with Capty as been poor as far as encoding. I'm using DV and Capty's output is poor. I would be interested in what device your friend used to capture the MPEG. I've notice that most hardware devices that record MPEG1/2 don't make complete files. They have dropped frames, bad GOP or other problems that cause them to be de/multiplexed or re-encode to be VCD/SVCD/DVD complient. If you have the bandwidth I would be interested in one of these file.

[schwinn]

Thanks for your interest in my Video problems. I've have solved the mystery of why Toast 6 re-encodes the file. I have also figured out the other issues. First off Toast 6 is a very simple DVD authoring program. So simple it has few choices and offers very little control to the user. At least that is how I see it when compared to other programs.I spent a lot of time reading the PDF file that came with it and checking out the website. I also made a small DVD disk image to see how things work. I couldn't figure out how to do a menue and buttons. I was expecting some sort of input to be needed and or a preview or at least a hint of how it would look when finished. There are no controls because it does it all for you. You just click on menue and buttons. It then makes a blue wavey curtain background for the menue and each file you add is given a button on this background. The buttons look like small frames or tv screens. You don't see any of this until after you make this all into a disk Image which you can then mount and play wih Apple DVD player or burn the file to DVD.It seems you have no other choice nor control of the size of the buttons. The only controls I find are: You can label the buttons as you please and can pick any frame in the file to show inside the button. No other text can be added to the menue other then labeling the buttons.
It seem that Toast 6 did re-encode the file because it has mp2 audio file. It changed it to a .aif (AIFF) audio file which takes up over 200mb more space then the mp2. It may also mean that I can only put 4 files on the DVD disk rather then the 6 files that Capty DVD lets me use.Even though there seems to be a lot of info in the PDF manual it really leaves a lot out. For example when tracking down the re-encoding issue I found"You can use any Video, Photo or audio file recognized by Quicktime. Toast will Auto convert where appropriate"
PCM (aif &wave) , AC3 , mp2 are all DVD standard audio and excepted by Studio Pro. iDVD only excepts PCM audio. Toast 6 must only except .aif because i don't think QT plays wave audio files not sure.

Why I'm disappointed with Toast 6:
The DVD authoring program is too simple and offers little control to the user. The files I want to make into a DVD requires 4 times the disk space of the file size. It took 45 min. to author a 24 min file to DVD on my G3 550MHz machine using DVD ready mpeg2 files. The finished disk image played fine but was very simple and plain looking.

Toast 6 still can not make a mpeg2 SVCD ready file into a SVCD which meets standards and plays on most computers and DVD stand alone players. It has to be converted to bin/cue with another program and then Toast 6 will burn it correctly.

Capty DVD takes my 6 mpeg2 DVD ready files.Only requires 2 times the disk space of the files compared to 4 x for Toast6. Lets me pick any image I want for the menue lets me choice the buttons or make buttons or just list a name in place of the buttons. Authors a full DVD with these files in 40 min without any re-encoding and it meets DVD standards and plays well on several DVD players .I haven't used the encoding feature of Capty DVD so have no idea of the quality.
So after learning more I still stand by my waste of money for many people who already own Toast 5 statement. It surely can't compete with iDVD which I can't currently use as my Pioneer A05/105/Superdrive is in an external Firewire case. DVD Studio pro scares me.It has so many options and costs a bundle. It also requires muxed files ( seperate video and audio) so takes even longer to prep for.

I am now that I have room on my drive going to make 2 disks of the same files. One with Toast 6 and one with Capty DVD and will report on video and audio quality differences as i see them. The Capty DVD is expected to take just over an hour start to finish. The Toast 6 5-6 hours. later Schwinn

[chikanakan]

Well, first of all, I think Toast was meant to be simple. Most people do not want to spend hours of time making menus, change buttons, etc. No produce will come close to the ease of use of iDVD, so there really is no need to for developers to try.

I can tell you the reasons Toast converts MP2 audio. DVD players are not required to support MP2. Only European please have this requirement. US, Japan, etc are only required to support PCM and AC3. All players will support PCM and AC3. Eventhough some players in the US may support MP2 audio, most likely they do not. MP2 audio cares extra fees and hardware and with the price of players they do not support MP2.

With the large amount of downloaded content and the fact that most people don't even know what audio format they have anyway, it is best use PCM because it is the supported by all players. Just because your player supports it, doesn't mean all do. I would be more pissed if my disc didn't play then the extra time it takes to convert the audio.

Another thing you may not relize is CaptyDVD is a $200 app. You may have got it with your burner, but your burner cost 3-400 I'm sure. LaCie may be bundling it now, but that may not last much longer. Pixela is a Japanese company and will not sell retail in the US. Would you pay $200 for Capty. I would spend the extra and get DVDSP.

I'm not sure what you mean by Toast doesn't support MPEG2 compliant SVCD files correctly. Toast SVCD are to spec and have worked fine for me. All most no DVD player truely supports SVCD. Of 30-40 players I know of, only one has full SVCD support. I don't know what you created the so called MPEG2 compliant file with, but I serious doubt it is compliant. It may work on your player, but again it doesn't mean it's compliant. What did you make the files with.

If you want to contact me off line that is fine, chikanakan@hotmail.com I've been working with this type of software for a long time, and know quite a bit about them.

[galactica]

I'm not sure what you mean by Toast doesn't support MPEG2 compliant SVCD files correctly. Toast SVCD are to spec and have worked fine for me. All most no DVD player truely supports SVCD. Of 30-40 players I know of, only one has full SVCD support. I don't know what you created the so called MPEG2 compliant file with, but I serious doubt it is compliant. It may work on your player, but again it doesn't mean it's compliant. What did you make the files with.

I think they are referring to v5 which would not burn SVCD properly, making SVCD able players not play the disk. burn the same file with MMB or Firestarter and it will work.

Though i have not tired it yet, Toast 6.0 should now burn a .bin/.cue set properly. but have not had a SVCD to test it with yet - kind of just burn using my dvd burner now, not cdr much anymore.

[schwinn]

"I think they are referring to v5 which would not burn SVCD properly, making SVCD able players not play the disk. burn the same file with MMB or Firestarter and it will work.

Though i have not tired it yet, Toast 6.0 should now burn a .bin/.cue set properly. but have not had a SVCD to test it with yet - kind of just burn using my dvd burner now, not cdr much anymore.
_________________
/Galactica"

Yes Toast 6 now burns a SVCD bin/cue file correctly! But burn a SVCD ready mpeg2 file without making into a bin/cue file and you get the same non compliant disk that may play but won't fast forward nor reverse in many machines as burning a bin file in Toast 5. The machine freezes and you have to eject the disk and start over.
It took a bit of work but I've found the reason for this. On the burned disks that don't play correctly there are two missing files in the SVCD folder. "PSD.SVD" & LOT.SVD" are their names. This isn't just a Mac and Toast issue. The very popular on the PC Nero Burning ROM software makes the same defective disks or at least it did for many years. later Schwinn

[schwinn]

Ok, I spent a lot of time with Toast trying to figure out how best to author and burn my six (6) apox 24 min each episodes of a childerns show impossible to buy anywhere. Yes, these are the mpeg2 files with mp2 audio. The files meet DVD standards. Several people say no mp2 audio is not and several say yes it is but only in Pal countries. Apple's DVD studio pro has no problem with mp2 audio Pal or not. My chinnese made DVD player bought at Walmart for a reasonable price also has no issues with mp2 audio(it also plays Pal or NTSC and outputs for the TV attached with no user need to change anything!) nor does Apples DVD player nor does Quicktime. So that seems to answer the question for me!
Ok anytime I have more then 2 of these 24min files in Toast it just sets there saying "Preparing" for long periods of time. Including for hours on end. The graph in Toast seems to go up to 90 min for DVD's. I have found that on my G3 550 MHz machine 60 minutes is the limit! The info with Toast 6 says 60 min or more with no limit mentioned that I can find. This may well vary with different hardware. I started out trying to author and burn the 6 eps on 1 DVD. This was imposible on my hardware. So 2 eps per disk it is. Toast takes 45 min. per ep to author the disk then takes nearly that long to make into a disk image for burning. So like 4 hours or more later I have two eps burned and they play fine! I did try to burn 3 disk images on one disk but that is what I ended up with! Disk images on the disk !
I then opened up Capty DVD and made custom menues and buttons and put all 6 eps on one disk. In just a little less then 2 hours I had a full disk with all 6 eps and it looks very professional sort of ;-0 ( give me a break this is like my 3rd DVD disk ) I then played the Toast 6 - 2 eps disk and the Capty 6 eps disk and I've got to say there is no noticable difference.

So for me Capty DVD is clearly the winner. yes, I got it free with my DVD burner. It is however sold seperately for $149.00 by Lacie.com in the USA. Before you say that is too expensive you need to realize that for some people like me it is the only real option. iDVD doesn't work with external DVD players like my firewire drive. Apple Studio Pro 2.0 @ a whopping $499.00 (DVD Pro 1.5 was $999.00 for a long time!) doesn't work with a G3 machine! So it's either 60 min on a disk or Capty DVD if I want to fill a disk up.
Toast 6 was a waste of money for me. I know there is a market for a simple DVD authoring program and many people maybe happy with it. I should mention Sizzle doesn't seem to work for me either. It crashes at some point for me every time. I seem to have narrowed that issue down . Even though I set Sizzle to use a different disk for it's scratch disk it still requires the boot disk to have double the disk space available and that isn't an option for me. I see others are also starting to see how limited Toast 6 is. It will likely get better with upgrades. Thanks for imput and offers of help. later Schwinn

[major]

As an alternative to consider, the S/VCD>DVD tool of latest ffmpegX let you author a series of MPGs of any kind (encoded as VCD, as SVCD, as CVD, as DVD..) as a single DVD image. It doesn't let you add a menu, but it should be quite fast. For DVD-compliant authoring with menus and everything I strongly support Sizzle.

[chikanakan]

For DVD-compliant authoring with menus and everything I strongly support Sizzle.

I find this comment interesting given the fact that DVDs created with Sizzle fail all the DVD verifiers.

Status Failure ( failed to verify )
Result detected 2323 errors