help with my dvd school project

[capone]

Hey

Iam working on a schoolproject and I could use some help of u guys(purpose of this project is to show to people what the difference between dvd, svcd and vcd is.). I got 3 movie files all 3 are the same movies and have the same length. First movie is in dvd format, second is svcd and the third is vcd. I need to burn these 3 movies on a dvd and it has to be playable in a standalone dvd player. I also need to find a way to switch between the movies while playing the dvd with multi angle(they need to be all 3 in sync).
And if possible there also has to be a 4th movie track where u can see all 3 movies at the same time.

I hope someone could help me with my problem. Any tips/suggestions are welcome.
THX

capone

(i didnt really know where to post this topic so i just posted it here)

[Gees]

What your asking is very complicated for any quick answers here. And some, I'm not even sure can be done. :c*

You'd need high-end video editing/ DVD authoring programs and any that include multi-angles would be very pricey.

You don't say what you have available to work with. More info might help get you started, but you'd probably need to do a lot of reading up for each function your project requires.

Was this project assigned as you described it, or your own idea?

[holistic]

..need to find a way to switch between the movies while playing the dvd with multi angle(they need to be all 3 in sync)...

Wow - sounds like someone has a tough task ahead of them. No idea on the "multi angle" , other than this : Find a multi angle DVD - reverse engineer it with IFO Edit to see how it ticks.

Are you trying to demonstrate resolutions and bitrates??

Try this :
1) Prepare 3 identical files (from a 8000+ bitrate MPEG2 master or DV avi for that matter)
2) Using TMPGEnc
2a) save them in the following way
3a) VCD : centre custom size 352*240 @ 1150 (** for convience use mpeg2 rather than 1 - unless you must)
3b) SVCD : same as above - centre custom size (you may need to fake it as the 480*480 will look odd) @ 2500
3c) DVD : 720*480 the easiest of the bunch @ 6000+

The above will demonstrate relative "dimensions" and give an approximation of 'quality' with bitrates.

As for 4 pix in one , Premiere can do it.
Read here http://www.wrigleyvideo.com/videotutorial/tutorials.htm
][

[capone]

my teacher is gonna give me the 3 movie files in 3 formats, vcd, svcd and dvd. all are the same movies and have the same length.
the only thing i have to do is find a way to burn these 3 files on a dvd and play it on a standalone dvd player, while playing the movie i need to switch between the movies, so people that watch the movie can see the difference between dvd, svcd, vcd.
i can get all software i want. i can use alot professional hardware at my school(so that aint the problem).

[Gees]

i can get all software i want.

That's the main thing right there. When you know exactly what programs you'll be using, then you can find advice and tutorials about them. Or ask specific questions from people who use the same software.

Until you/we know what you'll be using, it's impossible (and pointless) to tell you how.

Stop back when you're able to tell us more. :c)

[capone]

well if u can tell me witch software i can use best, ill get it and use it.

[Gees]

Hmmm, I know Adobe Premiere is capable of a lot of stuff. And then you can use the tutorials that Holistic gave you a link to (above).

A lot of people would probably be able to help you with it too.

But the only ones (I think) that can do multi angle are Maestro - which you can't get any more - but maybe school has it? and Sceneartist (or something like that. I can't quite remember.)

But those have a very high learning curve. I don't know how much time you have to get all you need done. Or how much experience you have so far.

I use Ulead products and they can do part of what you want, but not all.

Good luck. Let us know how you make out. :c)

[capone]

yea i will, thx for helping met out so far.

[Gees]

You're welcome. :c)

May I please ask? What grade/year is this for? It seems pretty advanced.

Sometimes I wish I'd had a course that taught all this. :c)

[housepig]

I would say this - if the purpose is to show the relative quality of the files, then you can convert them all to mpeg-2 to fit the dvd standard - encoding a vcd or an svcd file to dvd-mpeg isn't going to affect the quality, just the size and format.

as for having all three on screen, side by side, you can also do that pretty easily in Sonic Foundry's Vegas Video.

[capone]

iam studying Media Engeneering, i dont get alot video editting. but a teacher that gives me Compression Technics, asked me and another student if we wanted to make this dvd, we will get points for it if we succeed.

[Gees]

as for having all three on screen, side by side, you can also do that pretty easily in Sonic Foundry's Vegas Video.

Ah, yes, Housepig. Vegas Video. It was hard for me to think of names of programs I don't have!

:c)

[capone]

k thx, one more question, if i convert the vcd and svcd files to dvd(.vob), will it change the quality? or will it stay the same quality as the original vcd/svcd.

[Gees]

I've never done that myself. Only work with DVD. But housepig said above:

encoding a vcd or an svcd file to dvd-mpeg isn't going to affect the quality, just the size and format.

My guess is that makes perfect sense, since you can not improve the quality simply by re-encoding. :c)

[housepig]

k thx, one more question, if i convert the vcd and svcd files to dvd(.vob), will it change the quality? or will it stay the same quality as the original vcd/svcd.

it's going to be the same visual quality, but it will be in mpeg-2 format, so it will be easier to author a compliant disc (I'm not sure if you can mix and match different formats like that on one disc without converting them...)

[capone]

yea, iam gonna convert the vcd and svcd to dvd(vob), this way its easier to work with.
i can make dvd switch movie files by using multi angle.
now i gotta find out wich program i can use easy to make a multi angle dvd

[adam]

In order to do multiangle I believe the files must all be encoded with the same exact parameters. So you are going to have to use the same resolution, which is going to defeat the purpose of this project, since you want to compare the formats to each other. If you take a 352x240 source and increase it to 720x480 to match your DVD source, its going to look terrible. Much worse then the source VCD.

You can easily have all three formats on a DVD and still have them representative of that format's quality, but multi angle is probably not an option.

[capone]

damn, so there is no way i can play the dvd with the 3 movies and switch between them while playing the dvd.

[BJ_M]

you could fake it pretty easy with vegas ...

drop each in to vegas , render each at the same dvd template settings , but select ''preview" quality rendering

this will not effect the dvd version but will the other 2 in the way they are being resized .. one can experiment with using good also -- just compare to the original - as it looks on a tV ..

as for multiangle -- you will need scenarist or maestro or dvdpro 2 (mac (i think it can))

the best (and about the only i think) examples around of multiangle dvd's are porno films , there WERE the first to use them (though i have never seen one) ...

[Gees]

so there is no way i can play the dvd with the 3 movies and switch between them while playing the dvd.

Capone - would it still be acceptable to have a menu for accessing each version? Then you can easily go from one to the other through the menu at any time. It would only be a few seconds of interruption.

Just an alternate idea, seeing now that you probably can't use multi angle.

Your 3 shown at once method will already show most of the viewing comparisons. You can use each as a motion menu item (motion button)and click each to play that version's full length vid.

[Faceman101]

No matter what, this project will take some time and effort, which is always a good thing in my book.

I just did a test with some clips and this is the way I would go about the DVD.

1) Re-encode the VCD, SVCD at 720x480 resolution.

2) Author the DVD as a multi-angle

3) Use one audio source (the DVD's)

4) Using Premiere, make a 4 screen split screen showing where each quarter of the screen is a different format.

Now how I would go about doing so:

1a) Using AVISynth load the VCD using Directshow and the SVCD by DVD2AVI.
1b) LanczosResize (720,480)

2a) Find a DVD authoring app that will do multi-angle, I believe DVD Impression Pro, I'm sure others do

3a) Self explainatory

4a) Using the AVISynth scripts for each VCD, SVCD, DVD I would load them into Premiere using a VFAPI wrapper (puesdo AVI)

4b) Using certain transitions, make the split screen, export as DV or Huffyuv then encode with CCE


I just tested re-encoding a VCD and SVCD and the quality is pretty much the same. Of course alittle more grainy, but it really is near the same with resizing before hand. If you think about it the DVD player resizes to that size anyway.

This is just how I would go about it, if you want anymore info into this, I'd be glad to help.

[Vejita-sama]

Ok, first off know that the SVCD resolution of 480x480 is NOT supported by the DVD standard and thus might not play on all standalones. Many authoring programs will NOT allow you to import it either.

If you don't have access to (or the desire) to make a multiple angle DVD (they are a pain, I did one once w/ Maestro for fun) I would suggest making a series of 'menus' with subpictures to select different videos.

That is you can choose: DVD, SVCD or VCD from the subpicture while any of the clips are playing. However, this will not be seamless (author as one VTS to minimize pause) and even with chapter points they will not be in sync. I'm not sure how close you can make chapter points but lets say every 5secs, that's still a small 'skip' in the play + the pause as it switchs.

Maestro won't let (me) import 480x480 video, but it will take 352x480 (CVD) video, ask your prof if that's ok. If so you can make a multiple angle DVD with either DVD Maestro or Scenarist.

[Nelson37]

If you resize, re-encode, or in fact alter in any way any of the videos then you are no longer doing the original comparison requested but something completely different. ANY re-encoding will significantly alter the quality. Convertng MPEG to VOB is NOT re-encoding. Converting MPEG-1 to MPEG-2 IS.

I am not certain if MPEG-1 and MPEG-2 can be mixed on the same disk, AND reliably played back on most players. I do think you can mix the various resolutions on one disk, though again the playback could be problematic.

Never done the multi-angle, but have done a simple cheat. Use very short chapter stops, with Next and Prev shifting Ch1 Vid1 - Ch1 Vid2 - Ch1 Vid3, etc., making these steps relational to the playing chapter.

You may have to re-create the VCD by using the DVD vid as the source, and using VCD specs except for MPEG-2. Might be interesting to contrast various de-interlacing methods and smoothing filters which will show a dramatic difference for VCD.

[adam]

Mixing resolution and mpeg1 and 2 is completely supported in the DVD standard and all DVD players are required to play such hybrid disks. As long as the assets are DVD compliant, you can put them on the same disk just not necessarily in the same titleset.

I agree, if you are re-encoding to resolutions which are different from that format's respective resolution than you have blown the comparison. Its already been said, but I'd do 352x240 mpeg1, 352x480 mpeg2, and 720x480 mpeg2. That would make a decent comparison and it would definitely be compliant. Just don't tell your professor that you resized the ~SVCD to 352x480, he/she will never know. Or better yet, explain why you did it and they will be even more impressed that you bothered to make the disk completely DVD compliant.

[lordsmurf]

Simple answer: You can't do it. Impossible. Why? All of that is not supported.

Complex answer: Read all the above suggestions. They're on the mark. You'll need to rig up things and alter your desired outcome and project settings to something compliant.

Why not just have a DVD, a VCD and a SVCD playing concurrently on 3 different tv sets? Now THAT would be the best method.

Turn off sound (to avoid synch errors), you're worrying about video quality anyway.

Oh, and one more thing. A tv set is a low-resolution device, and a poor choice for showing off the differences. Because a tv resolution is close to 300/500x480, you're not going to see any real differences in SVCD and DVD.

[Faceman101]

Have any of you tried to re-encode the files and output them to TV? I have. It does not alter the original too much where you can say "That one is the original and that one is the re-encode." You maintain the same quality, just use a decent bitrate. Testing with CCE and outputting to my TV both files the difference was barely if not at all noticable.

[Nelson37]

While I do not have his files, I have definitely re-encoded VCD type files and found the output to be dramatically worse. This is much less noticeable with higher-quality source. I had assumed that re-encoding the VCD to MPEG-2 would be necessary for full compliance, incorrectly as adam pointed out. Tthough I thought I recalled some posts stating that particular players would not handle such a mixed-format disk.