New Thread To Discuss PAL-60 and NTSC-50 Capture

[OdubruS]

ok
im trying to start this thread here and hopefully between us us we can figure out how to properly capture a PAL-60 or NTSC-50 signal
ive had it working (very temprementaly i have to say)on my Avermedia tv studio card using the http://btwincap.sourceforge.net/features.html
brooktree drivers on powervcr 2 but now my system is freezing up
ive also had a little success with descaler (works for playing)captures with no sound tho and drops lots of frames
also had a little bit of success in virtual dub mod by copying and pasting the descaler drivers (lost the link for the instructions on this one) which again had limited results
anyhows im looking to start a disscussion of this so any input appriciated
pete

[SatStorm]

PAL 60 is nothing more than a masked NTSC.

First, you grabb as PAL @ 720 X 576 but with 29.97 ftp/s!.
That way you grabb the active 720 x 480 framesize, plus 96 lines of crap at the bottom of the screen.

Then, you crop the source to @ 720 X 480 and you encode as you do always with NTSC. This is the easy root! You end up with a perfect NTSC mpeg!

The alternative is like this: You crop to 720 X 480, resize to 352 x 576, you inverse telecine to 23.97, you do a framerate convertion to 25 ftps (avifrate patch for example...) and you adjust the audio.
Taff and with inferior results.....

After many tests, I now prefer to encode my pal 60 captures as NTSC. Much easier, less lipsync issues, less steps, faster overall.

I know nothing for NTSC 50, someone else could help you with this.

[OdubruS]

actually im not to bothered about NTSC-50 personally as im in the UK
its the PAL-60 capture i want to do
What app are u using for this method?
i also understand there is a colour carrier issue here too
What card are u using?
Anyone who knows anything on this subject please use this thead to fill the gaps then maybe we can get a guide together
thanx
pete

[SatStorm]

It is not a card issue, it is more a drivers issue.

I succeed perfect PAL 60 captures with an asus 7700 VGA card and a Hauppauge win TV primio FM card, with twisted wdm drivers!

Applications? Asus digital VCR, Unlead movie factory, etc... No luck with virtualdub on this!

[DrWafer]

PAL 60? and NTSC 50?
why not PAL50?
2x25
i dont know what you mean exactly but i tried days ago and capture
PAL 50 frames per second with no problem at all.
WDM drivers with a bt878 based simple tvcard and iuVCR with PIC MJEPG
codec at 768x576 res.
this with winXP and P4 2,53GHz.

the benefits of this stream is completely natural fast motion but the size is
double,from the other hand to keep this you must convert the file with 50fps something that is not compatible and is not possible for VCD,SVCD
formats,so i dont really see the reason for 50fps capturing unless someone
wants to convert the file to avi format and keep it on hard disk.

[DrWafer]

seems that i misunderstood what PAL60 is...

no prob..anyway.

[OdubruS]

hey satstorm
thanx for your info
i dont have time to try this out tonight as im going for a meal but i will tommorrow
have to say tho it seems too simple to be true(not that im saying its not)
ive been trawling these forms for the last two years and only found dribs and drabs of credable information on this
if i figure a solid way to do this thro want youve said ill do a guide for the site
pete

[OdubruS]

"twisted wdm drivers! "-brooktree??

[OdubruS]

yeah still cant get this to work tryed ulead movie factory
and now my avermedia tv card isnt working at all
im gonna try uninstalling then reinstalling the bt drivers
does the twisted wdm drivers mean this bt ones?

[SatStorm]

Yes.
Basicly, the best results I have with PAL 60 are with win 98se, an asus 7700 card and the latest asus VFM drivers. I capture with virtualdub or unlead movie factory. I prefer virtualdub for this.
This trick doesn't work on win2k/xp, that's why I say no luck with virtualdub with this program. No luck if you use win2k/xp because of bad drivers of the specific card (Asus 7700)

Also:
PAL 60 as an input signal must be supported by the card. If you don't see a PAL 60 option when you determine the input source of your card, then your card doesn't support PAL 60.

You can't make any card accept PAL 60!

What I suggest is that after the capture is done (which means that your card support PAL 60 input), you crop the source to a NTSC framesize and you encode this cropped PAL 60 avi as NTSC. That way you don't need to inverce telecine, boost the framerate and adjust the framesize and the audio to make true PAL. It is a cheap trick which works best for me with minimum quality loss!

[OdubruS]

thanx again
unfortunatly i used winxp with service pack1
tho i have had some success on my own
http://ivus.tele-kom.ru/ENGLISH/news.html has the tweaked drivers for my avermedia card
this doesnt work for pal 60 in virtual dub or in ulead
but in descaler i now can capture both video and audio altho the ar is screwed
when u try and open it in tmpenc straight to an svcd or vcd output tmpenc regects it outright
but if u select new then open the file without loading a template it will encode to mpeg 2 no problem but with the same ar issue
however if you then take that file u can rencode back into then format that u need no problem ar altered with the clip frame option in tmpenc
ill report back on the results here when done
pete

[OdubruS]

ok folks heres what i have as the best way to capture pal-60
http://deinterlace.sourceforge.net/downloads.htm
use descaler ver 3.1.0 as it is more stable and tends not to revert to true ntsc as much
http://www.virtualdub.org/
im using virual dub mod but it shouldnt make a difference really
http://www.divx-digest.com/software/acemega_codec.html
someone gave me this but heres a link to a download
basically what your looking for tho is the pic video codecs
http://www.pegasusimaging.com/picvideomjpeg.htm
load descaler
settings/video input=composite
settings/video format=pal-60
view/timeshift(under construction)options/compression options/choose a stream/video=pic video codec(or what u choose)
leave all else(the sound still records in this version)
start ur input then view/timeshift(under construction)/record
when recording is done view/timeshift(under construction)/stop
close descaler
the avi file is in the descaler folder
now heres where it gets funny
sometimes tmpgenc http://www.tmpgenc.net/ has no trouble opening the avis other times youll need to frameserve from virtual dub
there are guides for both these tools already and im pressed for time tonight
as the output file is like 720X220 or something like that ull need to use the clip frame centre custom size option in tmpgenc and again this site will help u with that
pete