I need your advice!

[Usil]

I am completely new at this, so I need your advice from the beginning till the end. I have a couple of movies in .avi format, each a bit over 700 MB (720 and 735). I want to burn these movies with the best quality possible. I prefer that they be a quality that most dvd's can read (I understand that VDC and SVCD will do). I don't care if it has to be on two cd's, as long as the quality will be the best possible. I need to know the following:
1. What programs to use to encode
2. What programs to use to burn

ALso, can I decide what quality I want, and how big the file will be? In other words, is there a program that will let me decide if I want the file to be 699 MB and the quality of thge movie will be according to the size?

Thanks!
Usil

[mistermickster]

Try this guide for encoding.

And any of these for authoring/burning.

Cheers

[Usil]

These two sites mention everything but avi's. Are they the same as mpg's? If not, what do I do to enocode them? Also, something that I don't fully understand. What exactly is encoding? As far as I understood, it like "zipping" a movie, a kind of compression. Am I right?

[mistermickster]

Hi Usil,

I don't think you have read the guide fully.

That guide is indeed for encoding an AVI file to an MPEG-2 file.

For a description of what encoding means click here.

Hope that helps.

[Usil]

Heh, you are right, Looks like I read everything but the headline where it says avi. Thanks!

[Usil]

OK, I read what encoding means, and its like I thought. Which format gives the best quality from the same amount of MB?

[mistermickster]

SVCD will give better quality than VCD, but you will not get as much on a CD.

However, since you are starting with only 700MB avi files, I don't think that will be a problem for you anyway.

Cheers

[Usil]

Actually, they are over 700 MB, which is the main problem that has kept me from burning them yet. If I have an avi file that is 730MB and I want to encode it, Can I decide myself what quality the movie will be by choosing myself the size of the file that I will end up with after I encode it? Does the tmpgenc (or however its spelled) give me this option?

[edsmith77]

USIL,
Quality is in the eye of the beholder. However, it is generally agreed (all other things being equal) that the higher the bitrate used while encoding the better the results will look. Thus, I would suggest the use of a Bit Rate Calculator to estimate the bit rate to use per disc size desired. There are a number of calculators available just select "Tools" from the left hand menu on this page. Most are all freeware. Many thanks to those authors.
Once you have decided on the final disc size just use the displayed bit rate within TmpGenC, encode and if all is right you will have an mpg file that is of the appropriate size. Then chose your burner and go to town.
Well, it would seem that all is well in Muddville, however, there are some issues as you will soon see.
For example, if you pick to high a bit rate you most often will have to split the file across multiple discs. Sometimes this is not desireable (personal choice here). Or in the other direction, for a movie per 1 disc, the bit rate may be to low to avoid blockiness in the final mpg. Hence, poor viewing quality. So, the choice is yours.

Ed.

[Usil]

Ed, thanks you cleared things up quite a bit. Just one thing that is not clear yet. If I have an avi of 730 mb, is there any chance that it will become out bigger after encoding?

[mistermickster]

Usil,

TMPGEnc will do this for you. The thing to remember is that you can fit 800MB on 1 CD as a (S)VCD. 700MB AVI files will be much smaller once encoded to MPEG-1/2.

The size of the file is determined by the Average Bitrate used to encode to MPEG. The higher the bitrate, the better the quality, but the larger the file.

How long are your movies? By the size of the files you mention, they don't look long. You should get 40 minutes of good quality video on 1 SVCD disc.

Try this Bitrate Calculator to help determine the bitrate you require.

Cheers

[Usil]

Thanks mistermickster/edsmith77! You both made things very clear. I will try what you both suggested, and will post back have I any other questions/problems/comments!

[Gazorgan]

I don't think anyone was very clear.

This is cearly wrong:

TMPGEnc will do this for you. The thing to remember is that you can fit 800MB on 1 CD as a (S)VCD. 700MB AVI files will be much smaller once encoded to MPEG-1/2.


Size is relatively irrelavent.

For SVCD (much better quality over VCD), you can get about 40 minutes of movie/disk. Much more than 50 and the quality degrades.

Now you have a 700 MB avi file, how long is the movie? At 90-100 minutes make it 2 disks, over that 3. Yes, you can have 2.3 GB when your done converting.

Quality wise, 1 disk AVI's generally don't look so great converted to MPEG2. 2 disk avi's generally convert pretty well. Working from your original DVD's produces superior quality.[/quote]

[Usil]

Hi Gazorgan, thanks for the reply. One movie is about 720 MB, 2 hours and pretty good quality. I wouldn't mind keeping it avi as long as the quality would stay good, and I could fit it on one CD. Is this possible?

[edsmith77]

USIL,
Under normal (here is the point of contention) circumstances a movie of X minutes produces an AVI file of 720Mb (your condition) will generally produce a smaller MPG file size. That is of course subject to a number of conditions. For understanding let me give an example with numbers. First I want to limit this discussion to Contant Bit Rate encodes and exclude Variable Bit Rate encodes for simplicity. Using one of the Bit Rate Calculators on the left and using VCD encodes, a 90 minute movie to be encoded onto just one (1) 80 minute CDR can only use a bit rate of 976Kb/sec. And TmpGenC will encode this movie at that rate for you quite nicely. However, I am afraid that when you watch the movie from this created CDR you will be disappointed with the screen quality. However, now if you open up the possibilities to allow two (2) CDRs, then the BRC says you can have a bit rate of 2182Kb/sec. At this rate you will more than likely be pleased with what you view. However, the price for this pleasure is having 2 CDRs (each with 45 minutes of video) vice just 1 CDR(with 90 minutes of video). And a bit of extra work and time to make two (2) TmpGenC encodes.
So back to your original questions:

ALso, can I decide what quality I want, and how big the file will be? In other words, is there a program that will let me decide if I want the file to be 699 MB and the quality of thge movie will be according to the size?

Deciding on quality a priori to encoding is a matter of judgement and past encoding experience. So the answer in your case is NO. Based on the seemingly lack of experience. Yes you can decide on the file size and there are programs that will let you decide on the final file size. But they will not tell you the resulting quality. Only you can make that determination.
Remember file size does not determine quality.! Basically, encoding bit rate determines quality (all other things being equal). And bit rate determines final file size. Just think of it this way, Lower bit rate => lower quality => smaller file size. Higher bit rate => higher quality => bigger file size. Unfortunately, "there aint no such thing as a free lunch."

The best way to understand this process and its consequences is to make some small encodes ( say, 3-5 minutes, each) at different bit rates and see which one you like best. Of course, to save some money these should be written to a CDRW disc. Once you have found the quality you like, then go for the gusto with that setting. In this manner you will build your experience base and help you decide in an "a priori" manner what is an appropriate bit rate for YOUR perceived / desired QUALITY.

Ed

[edsmith77]

Gazorgan,
I must take exception to a couple of points you made. First,

700MB AVI files will be much smaller once encoded to MPEG-1/2.

But this seem in direct conflict with your later comment of

Now you have a 700 MB avi file, how long is the movie? At 90-100 minutes make it 2 disks, over that 3. Yes, you can have 2.3 GB when your done converting.

I do believe that if I encode this 120 Minute 700Mb AVI file to MPEG2 at 4000Kb/sec I guarantee the resulting file will be MUCH MUCH larger than 700Mb and will require multiple disks.

Size IS important (but it depends on whom you ask) but I agree it is not the governing factor for movie quality. Bit rate seems to be the dominant factor.
In general, this encoding problem is a multi variable problem. The variables are time (movie length), bit rate (encoding rate), and file size (MBs). In all cases the author can define / choose / specify ANY two of the variables but the third one is left up to mother nature. And we all know "you can't fool mother nature."

Ed

[Gazorgan]

It's a comprehension problem, what was said was highly inaccurate:

TMPGEnc will do this for you. The thing to remember is that you can fit 800MB on 1 CD as a (S)VCD. 700MB AVI files will be much smaller once encoded to MPEG-1/2.

No 700 MB AVI file in existance will be smaller after converting to MPEG1/2. MPEG2 streams are universally larger than their corresponding MPEG4 (DivX/XviD/WMV9) versions. Stop confusing Usil saying otherwise like here:

Under normal (here is the point of contention) circumstances a movie of X minutes produces an AVI file of 720Mb (your condition) will generally produce a smaller MPG file size.

Now, if the whole idea is put the movie on one disk, then trim off the credits in VDUB and burn it to disk

If the idea is watch the movie on a DVD player with 1 disk, then get a DVD burner.

If the Idea is to watch the movie on a DVD player only, then convert it to SVCD and burn it on 3 CDR's.

[Usil]

Ok, you managed to lose me somewhere on the way. Maybe if I will be moe specific about what I am looking to do, you can both agree on a solution.
I have two movies. One 733MB and the other 736 MB. They are both in AVI format. My aim is to burn them on ONE cd, with the quality staying the same or somewhat the same. In other words, I want to trim the size to 699MB. I believe that the quality shouldn't change that much. Is there a way that I can encode the movies to another format and make them 699 MB? If so, what format, and how do I do it?

[mistermickster]

Usil,

You have still not answered my earlier question of, how long are the movies? 30 minutes? 40 minutes? 90 minutes?

This would be more useful than telling us the AVI file size. If the movie is just 30-40 minutes you will get a very good quality MPEG to burn to CD. If on the other hand the movie is > 80 minutes, you will not get good quality on 1 disc and will need to split over 2 or more.

Hope that helps.

[poopyhead]

bitrate, filesize isn't everything....

encoding method is also very important!!!!!!! (especially when cramming as much movie per CD as possible)

the absolute bitrate isn't everything.....how that bitrate is allocated is just, if not more, important.

given the same (avg.) bitrate, CBR will look the worst. multi-pass VBR will look the best...i believe ppl say the cut off is between 4 - 5 passes on CCE, where you can't tell any further difference w/ more passes.

--------

a little bit off topic....but going from a DVD source also has another variable.... NTSC (29.97 fps) vs. NTSC FILM (23.976 fps). hence, the # of frames is also a variable. given the same bitrate, the lower amount of frames will allow each frame to receive more bitrate...and thus improve video quality. since 3:2 pulldown will cause the NTSC FILM to be played back as 29.97 fps, there will be no "skipping, stuttering, etc..." typically associated with low framerates...not sure, but i heard the fps needs to go below 16-20 fps for us (humans) to see any stuttering.

hence, forced film in dvd2avi is always advised whenever the source is progressive.

-------------

@Usil,

i suggest you look up your dvd player here first: https://www.videohelp.com/dvdplayers

your best bet would be if it reads SVCDs....or at least SVCDs using the VCD header trick.

if so, then i suggest you go with SVCDs, as it is generally better quality than VCD and xVCD.

otherwise, see if your player can handle xVCDs, if not SVCDs.

[Usil]

One movie is about 720 MB, 2 hours and pretty good quality.

Mistermickster, the first movie is 2 hours and 2 minutes, and 733 MB.
The second movie is 1 hour and 54 minutes, 736 MB.

[Usil]

Poopyhead, ok, the first part of your email was like chinese for me. The second part is less important for me, cause I can watch the movies on my dvd or computer. Thats why I said in an earlier post that I don't care if the movie will stay an avi, but that I can trim it from 733 mb to 699, enough to fit on one CD.

[Hardcoreruss]

Simple method - Use virtual dub and tmpgenc (both can be found in the tools section).

Open file in Virtual dub, set audio to full processing mode and then extract audio. Under file select file information and note the framerate of your file.

Open tmpgenc, select SVCD template (select the one which has the relevant framerate as your file). Click next, where it says file size, adjust the bitrate until the file size is as close to 833mb (not over) click next and finish. Once completed open up nero, select vcd, and move your newly created file over, burn on the slowest speed.

In one of your posts you say that you do not care how many discs it is over, in others you say on only one disc, above will fit it on one cd. If you want more than one adjust the framerate to under 1660mb and so on.

Once you have this file (the larger one) to split it go file, mpeg tools merge and cut (guides can be found on this on the left). Split to two files under 830mb and then repeat the process with nero.

[mistermickster]

Ok Usil,

Now we have something to work with.

You will get poor quality if you put each of these on 1 disc each.

Personally, I would go for 3 discs for each movie, approx 40 minutes each. This should give you a good quality resulting movie.

For your 2 hour movie, use an average bitrate of 2439 with an audio bitrate of 224, and burn to 3 80 min CDR's as SVCD.

For the 1 hour 54 min movie, increase the bitrate to 2617.

Hope that helps