does anyone have problems with sony hi8 jaggies ?

[LordVader]

If anyone knows about a forum where i can find answers to my problem, i would very appreciate that, cause i know is not exactly a capturing problem, is more a camcorder problem, but if there's anyway to fix this in the video capturing process, i will hear your tips too.

I you have a sony Hi8 camcorder from CCD-TR series, maybe you have been experience some artifacts in the image, like a little squares, or pixels, that i don't understand and i don't know how to get rid of it.

Any idea ?

[Manokat]

I guess you could give more details on your capturing difficulties.

I still have a Hi8 CCD-TRV65 and normally use it for short video recording.
For longer one I use a Sony MiniDV. With Hi8 TRV65, I notice this blockiness only occurs on deinterlaced capture at lower bitrate (720x480 at 4MB and down). It will be worse if you capture at lower frame half D1 (352x480), e.g.

That is why I normally capture MPEG 2 720x480 at avgr 6MB (9MB max) VBR INTERLACED with this camera. As well since I use ATI MMC 8.7 I usually add Videosoap at least 5%. The capture result is very good.

Try not to capture MPEG2 from Ulead VS7, DVD workshop, Movie Factory 2 with Hi8 camera if you can as you will get blocky capture at any bitrate.

[LordVader]

i already found articles related to the problem.

Is well known as "JAGGIES" (stair-stepping) on diagonal lines. Is a very common problem in digital cams, and even the most sofisticated cams have this problem, not as bad as sony cams, but is noticeable too.

There's no way to fix it. I found some ways to reduce it, but the jaggies are still there.

If you find any article related to the topic, let me know.

I know that an "anisotropic diffusion filter" could solve this problem completely, but I have like 20 hours looking for a filter like this for After Effects with no luck.

Let me know. Thanks.

[Manokat]

Jaggies or pixelation occur as a result of interpolation. Also known as resampling, interpolation is a method used by digital devices to increase the digital image size. The intensity of pixelation is attributed to the algorithm used. Better algorithm produces less jaggies or pixelation.

Fractal interpolation produces the best interpolation and there is a product called Genuine Fractals Pro that specializes in still image interpolation.

Check out the web site below:

http://www.dpreview.com/learn/?/Glossary/Digital_Imaging/Interpolation_01.htm and

http://www.lizardtech.com/solutions/gf/

Since this pixelation is a native problem to digital imaging what I normally do is not to capture anything below D1 or anything below 6MB bitrate as the pixelation is less obvious in bigger frame and faster bitrate.

That's another reason why I like ATI MMC 8.X videosoap. It slightly removes the jaggies although the quality is sligthly less sharp.

[LordVader]

I'm transferring my footages directly to the computer, and what i get in my Monitor is exactly what i have in the tape.

After solving the most pixelation problems and jaggies, i've notice that not just the pixelation in th edges is the problem, also when an object is moving i still can see the vertical lines appear right in front of the moving object.

Interpolation filters don't analize this like a problem, and just leave the pixelation there. This can be solve applying noise reduction filters in a very high level, wich is impossible to do, cause we all know what's going to happend.

I've tried a capturing method in 1:1 aspect ratio, cause the chip, in digital cams just strech 8x8 images. But it doesn't fix the problem either.

I wonder what people use in hollywood to get rid of this, cause i'm tired of seen DV footages in DVDs, and doesn't have this type of problems.

[lchiu7]

I'm transferring my footages directly to the computer, and what i get in my Monitor is exactly what i have in the tape.

After solving the most pixelation problems and jaggies, i've notice that not just the pixelation in th edges is the problem, also when an object is moving i still can see the vertical lines appear right in front of the moving object.

Interpolation filters don't analize this like a problem, and just leave the pixelation there. This can be solve applying noise reduction filters in a very high level, wich is impossible to do, cause we all know what's going to happend.

I've tried a capturing method in 1:1 aspect ratio, cause the chip, in digital cams just strech 8x8 images. But it doesn't fix the problem either.

I wonder what people use in hollywood to get rid of this, cause i'm tired of seen DV footages in DVDs, and doesn't have this type of problems.

I capture regularly using a Sony TR200 Hi8 camera into a Pinnacle DC10+ video capture card using s-video. The card does hardware mjpeg compression. I can see interlace artifacts as you would expect but once I process the file into MPEG format using tmpgenc or Mainconcept and de-interlace the video, writing to DVD or SVCD, I am pretty happy with the result. I usually capture in 768x576 (probably overkill) and 15fps (I think that is the native framerate of the Hi8 - can't be sure)

[LordVader]

Wich driver do you have ? i've been trying to find a driver that allow me to capture in that resolution, but i can't find it.

do you have NTSC system or PAL ?

can i try your driver ?

[lchiu7]

Wich driver do you have ? i've been trying to find a driver that allow me to capture in that resolution, but i can't find it.

do you have NTSC system or PAL ?

can i try your driver ?

The TR200 is NTSC. When I capture using the DC10+ the driver used is I suppose that supplied by Pinnacle as part of the driver for the card. The mjpeg compression is done in hardware

I have also successfully used the TR200 feeding into a Hauppauge WinTV PCI card, using iuvcr and the PicVideo mjpeg codec (though given the frame rate I can actually capture uncompressed). I presume the driver for the card is from Hauppauge though if you have a BT878 based card you can use generic drivers that are on the net

[FulciLives]

*** EDIT ***

Sorry I was talking about DV cams when I realized you said Hi8 so I just deleted my post.

Duh !!!

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

[LordVader]

that's not a problem, any information realated to the fact is useful, remember that stair-stepping is common in most digital camcorders, even in the HD cams.

[FulciLives]

that's not a problem, any information realated to the fact is useful, remember that stair-stepping is common in most digital camcorders, even in the HD cams.

Well my understanding of the stair-stepping problem is this:

1.) If your cam has a 16x9 mode then that often times causes it because of the way the cams do the resize.

2.) DV codec uses 4:1:1 color sampling

Unfortunately neither has anything to do with Hi8 although if you are using a device (like the Canopus ADVC-100) and converting to DV then problem 2 would pertain.

In which case you could try one of the 411 filters.

- John "FulciLives" Coleman