Tutorial: SVCD files on DVDr

[Wizeman]

WARNING: Not all DVD players accept these babies. The resulting disc will have the structure of a normal DVD, but contain files that are not included in the DVD Specification. That said, most players I've tested play them just fine, so it's well worth a shot.

This is a brief tutorial on how to fit your SVCDs onto a DVD. It might seem a bit of a hassle when you read through it (or the first time to make one), but it's soon easy as pie. You can rew/ff, GOTO specific timecode etc - all works great. And, of course, all in perfect sync.

ISN'T THERE AN EASIER WAY?
Probably not. The "problem" with SVCD is that they use a resolution (480x576 or 480x480) that is *not* part of the DVD standard. If you were to try and import SVCD streams into DVDSP or such a program, it would not accept it. This is the best way I've found *without* transcoding all the material into 720x576/480 (takes a long time) and changing the audio from 44.1khz to 48khz (takes a little time) etc. There is another way too; hacking into the file itself w HexEdit to try and change the headers so DVDSP thinks the file is properly spaced, changing it back again before muxing - this sounds really dodgy to me, and I've never been able to get it to work... yet hehe... This way is the easiest for now...

PROGRAMS USED
I used VCDToolsX, ffmpegx and two Terminal commands you can find in Package Contents of older Sizzle versions (ifogen and tocgen). That's really all you need. And some HD space, and a bit of patience Oh, and Toast to burn of course... Anyone know another reliable DVD burning software?

STEP BY STEP
1) Use VCDToolsX to extract the MPEG-2 stream from a svcd .bin file
2) Use ffmpegx to Demux the MPEG-2 stream (look under the Tools flap, and choose your MPEG-2 stream in the Video-box. Click "Go!" and not "Encode".
3) Use ffmpegx to multiplex (under Tools) the .m2v and .mpa streams you got from the previuos step. Mux them as DVD (very important). Click "Go!" and *not* Encode.
4) Repeat the above steps for all the files you wish to put on the xDVD. Typically 5, sometimes even 6 (remember to keep an eye on the total data size, a DVDr can't hold more than 4.4GB)
5) Find an older version of Sizzle (like 0.0.2r etc) and look in the Package Contents. Extract the "ifogen" and "tocgen" command, you will be needing them.
6) Create a folder for your VIDEO_TS files (leave it empty for now). This should be as high up in the directory as possible, and the path should not contain spaces or special characters.
7) Open Terminal. Instruct your computer to build the VIDEO_TS by issuing the following command:
ifogen -o <your_newly_created_VIDEO_TS_folder>/VTS <mpeg1> <mpeg2> <mpeg3> (etc)
For instance,
ifogen -o /MY_DVD/VTS film1.mpg film2.mpg film3.mpg
Note the spaces, and that you add "/VTS" after the name of your (initially empty) folder.
You will see your progress in the window, as the VOBUs are made, and the Audio synchronized (procentually).
8) Still in Terminal, order up a fresh batch of IFO and BUP-files in order to make sure your DVD works correctly. This doesn't take a second, and is done like this:
tocgen <your_now_pretty_full_VIDEO_TS_folder>
as in:
tocgen /MY_DVD
And that's all. Burn in Toast as DVD, include an empty AUDIO_TS (some players need this). It is also useful to avoid the beginner-trap of just dropping the VIDEO_TS folder alone in Toasts DVD window, making the VIDEO_TS Root rather than a *folder* in root which the DVD standard demands. Burn away, and enjoy.

NOTE: If you find your audio is too high-pitched and the video jumps ahead (skipping ahead) to catch up, you need to add one step to the above - reencoding the audio to 48khz instead of the original 44.1khz. This is done as step 1.5, where you ask ffmpegx to encode a .MP2 file from the original MPEG2 you get in step 1. Under video, choose "Passthrough" and uncheck the "Encode Video box". Under Audio, choose .MP2, 48000 and 224. Use *this* resulting new audiofile when muxing in step 3. This really works, my Pioneer DV-350 couldn't handle 44.1khz sound on a DVDr media, probably since it has dual lasers (one for CDmedia, one for DVD).

Good luck!

/Wizeman

[Wizeman]

P.S.

I have not been able to get audio/video synch using MPEG1 (VCD) files in this process. Don't really know why, but it has always been w-a-y off. Far better in that case to just upsample the audio of he MPEG1 file, demux, and import the old video and new audio into your authoring program (DVDSP or Sizzle for instance) and author the disc properly. At least then you stand a better fighting chance.

[Wizeman]

P.P.S.

After using the tocgen command, I forgot to mention you need to make sure that the folder now containing your VOB, IFO and BUP file(s) is named VIDEO_TS and that this folder is to be dropped with an (empty) AUDIO_TS folder in the Toast DVD window. Sorry; I was in such a hurry this morning (doing the laundry hehe). Hope it's still usable to you.

/Wizeman

[Pix]

I have a stupid idea : what if you make a SVCD structure with VCDbuilder or whatever, create .img files and burn as a CDROM-XA but on a DVD instead of CD ?
Can Toast or maybe MMB accept this ?
The DVD standalone player may see this as a "giga-SVCD" ? Am I wrong ?
I'll get my DVD-burner this week (it's christmas!!) and make a trial by myself, as I have many SVCDs which I'd like to "backup" on a DVD-R.
Sorry if my question was stupid but maybe someone has a similar experience...

[Wizeman]

It's not a stupid idea at all, but it doesn't work. The kind of burning involved (session burning, as indicated by multitrack xa etc) is not applicable for DVD media. Wish it was though, that'd make life easier

/Wizeman

[thomasbbb]

Wizeman..
thanks so much for this guide... I'n going to try it this evening...

I did a quick search for an "older" version of sizzle to no avail... would you please advise me on a link where I might find it.

thanks

thom

[curtw]

Wizeman,

Can you explain why the demux/remux steps are required? I've tried to do this conversion *without* those steps, and the resulting DVD has "issues" that seem to be completely unrelated to the audio/video combination (i.e., I get a "picture and a half" worth of video, as the player tries to find some information to fill in the other 240 pixels to take my SVCD-compatible 480 width up to the DVD standard of 720).

I'm willing to take the time to try again with the demux/remux steps added, but I'd like to understand how playing with the audio will help my video problem?

[Wizeman]

thomasbbb: Many ppl have msgd/mailed about that. I will try and find some good (i.e. completely free LOL) web hosting so I can put a link here for you all (ifogen and tocgen)

curtw: Not everyone *needs* to "play around with the audio". In fact, most of the players I've tried were fine with a 44.1khz audio, as long as it was muxed as DVD. It's just what I've read on other forums combined with the fact my Pioneer insists on 48khz (which after all is the DVD standard) that makes me advocate it. The *reason* why it needs to be muxed as DVD is that the ifogen command *WILL NOT WORK* unless it is. Any other muxing will result in your Terminal window looking like this:
WARN: Skipping sector, waiting for first VOBU...
WARN: Skipping sector, waiting for first VOBU...
WARN: Skipping sector, waiting for first VOBU...
WARN: Skipping sector, waiting for first VOBU...
WARN: Skipping sector, waiting for first VOBU...
WARN: Skipping sector, waiting for first VOBU...
(etcetera etcetera etcetera)

I'm sure there are several other ways than mine to force SVCD files onto DVDr media, but this is the easiest one I've found to be very compatible with modern, older and software players.

/Wizeman

[thomasbbb]

is your laundry not done yet?

still waiting (breathlessly) for location of older version of Sizzle.

[bullitB]

Okay...don't know why you guys want it, but...

http://thegoods.ath.cx/~hmason/sizzle/sizzle0.0.2r2.sit

For the record, you can use the "dvdauthor" tool in newer versions of Sizzle; it does the same thing. Secondly, you need to realize that what you're creating is not a DVD. It breaks a ton of DVD specifications:

1) 480x480/576 is not a valid DVD resolution.
2) 44.1 KHz audio is not a valid DVD audio sampling rate.
3) DVDs must have at least one AC3 or LPCM audio track.

So...just be aware of this.

[thomasbbb]

the link... "file not found",,, grrrrr.

[Wizeman]

OK, talked to a friend with some web space. Within 24 hours the ifogen and tocgen commands will be available for download from there. Will post here (in this thread or a new topic) when they're there.

Now, on to bullitB...

Q "Okay...don't know why you guys want it, but..."
A For the ifogen and tocgen commands

Q For the record, you can use the "dvdauthor" tool in newer versions of Sizzle; it does the same thing.
A Absolutely. Problem is, it takes progressively longer. My first title (of 5) authored that way went fast, then it went slower and slower and - slower. In the end, a full xDVD (or whatever you want to call this "format" took several h-o-u-r-s to author from within Sizzle, and only minutes using the commands in Terminal. I have no idea why.

Q Secondly, you need to realize that what you're creating is not a DVD. It breaks a ton of DVD specifications:
1) 480x480/576 is not a valid DVD resolution.
A Read the veeeeeery top of this entire thread. See the WARNING-box? And the detailed ways needed to make an "actual" DVD?

Q 2) 44.1 KHz audio is not a valid DVD audio sampling rate.
A As recommended in the guide, upsampling the audio to 48khz improves compatibility (particularly on Pioneer machines, not just my model).

Q 3) DVDs must have at least one AC3 or LPCM audio track.
A News to me. I have a couple of commercial DVDs that lack them, actually, but there we are.... I even have one commercial DVD without an AUDIO_TS so... ("The Omen")

Be well

/Wizeman
So...just be aware of this.

[thomasbbb]

great news, Wizeman, I can't wait to try your "procedure"...

may I suggest you include a very short text file with TOCGEN and IFOGEN for those who may not know how to install them (include myself in that group... I'm assuming these are binaries and have to go in that elusive "bin" folder.)

thom

[galactica]

OK, talked to a friend with some web space. Within 24 hours the ifogen and tocgen commands will be available for download from there. Will post here (in this thread or a new topic) when they're there.

here you go....
http://mywebpages.comcast.net/galactica/Archive.sit

[thomasbbb]

galactica...

thanks sooo much... got them!

thom

[bullitB]

http://thegoods.ath.cx/~hmason/sizzle/sizzle0.0.2r2.sit

Sorry.