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Hello
I have to convert AVI clips to DVD extensively. I have 3 programs in my PC, two licensed and one free: ConvertXToDVD, Nero Vision Express 3 [as a part of Nero Suite] and AVI2DVD. Can some experienced member please tell me which on is the best in terms of quality?
In case of AVI2DVD which encoder provides the best result in terms of quality [QEnc, HCEnc, FreeEnc, NuEnc or CCE]? I tried HEnc, which took nearly 7hrs to convert a 1.5hr long video clip. Quality of output seemed to be good. But I would be greatly benefited to have opinions from more experienced users regarding all the codecs.
My system specs are bit old, ATHLON XP 1800+, 640MB of DDR RAM [133MHz], 128MB nVidia Graphics Card [MX Series]. I generally convert DivX, XviD and x264 codecs to DVD.
Please help me to zero down on one of it, or any other better option.
Thank you.
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আমি বাংলায় গান গাই
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A lot depends on your source quality. I use ConvertX most of the time as the average video off the net (~700MB) won't gain much if anything from a higher quality encode to MPEG-2.
But if you have a higher quality Divx or Xvid (~1500MB or more), then you might consider using a standalone encoder like TMPGEnc, or CCE or similar. For quality and control, I don't use all-in-one converters.
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Thank you redwudz
So I should use CCE to get the MPEG2 out of DivX or XviD and then use some other program to Author the DVD - right?
Will CCE take care of the Audio Channel too? I mean will the Audio be converted to the required format for DVD from mp3, which generally associated with AVIs?আমি বাংলায় গান গাই -
Easy option : ConvertxtoDVD
Quality option : FitCD, avisynth + filters, CCE Basic or HCEnc, aften + a gui
But as Redwudz says, source is everything. Most 700MB avi files are so low in quality that the difference between methods is small for the time differential. These files are perfectly watchable on your PC, but really aren't worth the effort converting back to DVD. Better to get a Divx/Xvid capable player and leave them as-is.
NeroVision will only make them worse, as will WinAVI, DVD Santa etc.Read my blog here.
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I believe the size also depends upon the duration isn't it? If an one hour video has this size, will it be considered as bad quality?
Secondly, you did not comment about AVI2DVD. Could you please comment on this tool too?
In one of my other thread you mentioned two tools to add menu externally, TMpgEnc and DVD Lab Pro. Do either of these take care of the conversion? You see DVD Lab Pro costs a bomb. So I need to get the quick idea.
In a nut shell I am mainly concerned about the quality.
Thank you for your reply.আমি বাংলায় গান গাই -
AVI2DVD is a front end to Avisynth, Your Favorite Encoder(qenc, HC, Cinemacraft, etc), and a DVD menu maker. So the program itself is as good as the various programs that it shields from you.
If you want quality, speed is the first thing that gets sacrificed. Post a few seconds of your source AVI files so we can determine how best to enhance them.
I would find a really good Avisynth script that performs denoising and high quality sharpening, then feed the script to ConvertXtoDVD. But again, just my opinion. We all have different definitions of "quality"
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The latest version apparently can encode, however I have not used it for this, and wouldn't as I have ProCoder 2, one of the better encoders around.
If budget is an issue, you can get very high quality out of HCenc, a free mpeg-2 encoder. Very well regarded, still updated frequently, and worth a look.
GUIForDVDAuthor is an easy to use, free authoring tool that will do all that you need for the moment. DVD Lab Pro will require some work on your part, as it is a complex tool that some have trouble getting their head around at first.
As for AVI2DVD - I haven't used it, so I can't really offer you much there.
Size is the product of length X bitrate. However this is not an indication of quality. Quality is, for the most part, subjective. There is no software into which you can feed a clip and have it tell you yes, this is good, or no, this is bad. I have had posters here defending 2 hour movies squeezed into low resolution 700 MB avis as DVD quality. They patently aren't, but for some . . .
Personally, I have not seen (or myself been able to achieve) a Divx/Xvid encode that I could honestly call DVD quality using a bitrate less than around half of that of the mpeg2 version. So a conversion of a commercial movie that is, say, 6GB as mpeg2 on DVD would still be 3GB as Divx/Xvid to maintain the same resolution and comparable quality. 700MB is a far cry from this. I believe the main reason is simply the way mpeg4 variants (Divx/Xvid especially) process the video to hide the data loss. There are particular areas in which these encoders stumble every time.
So as far as I am concerned, once a video has been converted from decent quality down to squeezed Divx/Xvid avi, it simply isn't worth the effort to try to bring it back. Not when hardware players are cheap and easily available. The effort, for me at least, simply isn't justified any more.Read my blog here.
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Thank you very much guns1inger
So after reading through all your great inputs [a well as of others] I think the following process should provide me a good quality DVD output with menu from AVI files [though I understand that there is no best method but I hope that the following is one of the Best]:
1. Extract the Audio using VD Mod/ VirtualDub, demux and sve it as wave.
2. Use CCE to convert the AVI to MPEG2 using the separately saved audio as audio input.
3. Feed the resultant MPEG2 to DVD lab Pro to complete the DVD structure.
Please correct me if I am wrong in any of the above steps or I need to add/ remove some thing from the above steps.
I could go for Procoder, but it has a hell of a price tag [$500]- is it really worth of that much in comparison with CCE?
Thank you again.আমি বাংলায় গান গাই -
CCE SP is $2000. For the versatility over CCE basic, and because I do some of this semi-pro, yes, to me it's worth it.
I would add a step 2.5 to your process - encode audio to AC3 using aften and EncWavtoAC3. Takes up a lot less space, which leaves more for the video.Read my blog here.
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If you have to pay for your encoders, my opinion is why bother? The HCEnc is about as good as any of them, and better than some. It requires either AviSynth or D2V input. As for the audio, use a specialized audio program to handle it. Don't use your MPEG-2 encoder to also handle the audio. For free, Aften and AftenGUI are the way to go. Then you'll have an M2V and an AC3 track when done. For authoring without menus for free, Muxman is the best. For authoring with menus for free, DVDAuthorGUI is good. Or GUI For DVDAuthor or DVDStyler.
And there are a wealth of programs for these things if you insist on spending money. Just my opinion. -
On this point, I have a slower PC, 2400 MHz, which takes roughly 2.5-3 times the running time to encode a clip in HC, using "best" quality and a few simple filters (resize, sometimes nologo).Originally Posted by src2206
Last clip: 1 hour, encoding took 3h08m, at 2800kB/s bit rate.
Higher bit rates are slower, but not proportionately. Lower rates, like 1650, the time is more like 250%.
Anyway, I can encode more hours of video overnight than I have time to watch, so that's fine for me.
Using FitCD, Avisynth, HCEnc, BeSweet and GuiforDVDAuthor, it takes me about 3 minutes of my hands-on time to make a single title DVD. The rest is the PC chugging away in the background or at night. -
Back when I purchased, HCEnc didn't exist. And for paid work I wanted something reliable and supported, that produced good quality. The other free options were simply too slow and the quality wasn't good enough.
I could not get aftenGUI to work for me. It kept telling me it had finished the moment I hit the encode button. EncWavtoAC3 worked like a charm. Go figure. And aften is much faster than ffmpeggui. I was surprised at the difference.Read my blog here.
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Hello soopfresh
Apologies, I missed your post.
Yes I always look for quality over time, as I can simply go to sleep and let the computer prove that it is really a computer
So time does not matter for me.
The clips that I get are generally long, and sometimes they are backups of my old DVDs [I own the original movie, so no question of legal copyright issue is involved here] or the home movies that I shot and saved in DivX for easy transferring.
I can give you the information on one of these video clip acquired using GSpot. Please see if that helps.
Its a big report, so I am posting those parts which you may require.VIDEO_BITRATE 1004
VIDEO_CODEC_NAME DivX 5.x/6.x
VIDEO_CODEC_STATUS Codec(s) are Installed
VIDEO_CODEC_TYPE DX50/divx
VIDEO_DAR 1.875
VIDEO_DURATION 2:03:39
VIDEO_FIELDS_PER_SEC
VIDEO_FRAME_COUNT 11599544
VIDEO_FRAMES_PER_SEC 23.976
VIDEO_MPEG4 MPEG-4
VIDEO_PAR 1.000
VIDEO_PICS_PER_SEC 23.976
VIDEO_QF 0.151
VIDEO_SAR 1.875
VIDEO_SIZE_X 720
VIDEO_SIZE_Y 384
AUDIO_BITRATE 160
AUDIO_BITRATE_TYPE CBR
AUDIO_CHANNEL_COUNT 2
AUDIO_CODEC 0x0055 MPEG-1 Layer 3
AUDIO_CODEC_STATUS Codec(s) are Installed
AUDIO_MPEG_STREAM_ID
AUDIO_MPEG_SUBSTREAM_ID
AUDIO_SAMPLE_RATE 44100
Hope this helps, as presently I can't upload a part.আমি বাংলায় গান গাই -
Thank you very everybody
So much information. After the price info clarification, I think I shall try procoder. For the rest DVD styler seemed to quite attractive. Though I agree that HEnc's output is vry good, but the only thing that worries me is consistency. It would be interesting to know what DVD Lab Pro really offer over DVD Styler to justify the price tag of $200.
Thank you guns1nger
So my process will be as follows:
1. Extract the Audio using VD Mod/ VirtualDub, demux and save it as wave.
2. Use aften or EncWavtoAC3 to convert the wave audio track to AC3 audio format.
3. Use CCE to convert the AVI to MPEG2 using the separately saved audio in the AC3 format as audio input.
4. Feed the resultant MPEG2 to DVD lab Pro or DVD Styler or GUI for DVD Author to complete the DVD structure.
Please correct me if I am wrong.
As I mostly convert my AVI files [DivX, XviD and once or twice H264] to DVD, I am looking for a process to standardize the whole method.
Thank you again.আমি বাংলায় গান গাই -
Please correct me if I am wrong.
OK, you're wrong. Did you not understand guns1inger's and my earlier post about the audio. Convert it to AC3 audio and hold onto it until you begin authoring. Encode only the video in CCE or whatever MPEG-2 encoder you plan on using. Bring together the audio and video at the authoring stage.
Though I agree that HEnc's output is vry good, but the only thing that worries me is consistency.
What's that supposed to mean? Like sometimes it does a good job and other times not so good? Not likely. Here's the Doom9 guide to using HCEnc :
http://www.doom9.org/mpg/hc.htm -
Thank you very much manono. Yes I misunderstood, and my apologies for that.
Yes this is what I meant. Sorry, I had no intention to degrade HEnc [and I or anyone else is not capable to do so to this selfless efforts], as I am very new to the field of Advanced conversion, I really need to standardize this process.Originally Posted by manono
I believe TmpgEnc also has a paid version to convert to Mpeg2. How will you rate it vis a vis HEnc, Procoder and CCE in terms of quality of output?
Secondly are you then assuring me that there is no need to waste my precious earnings behind a hefty price tag? [Don't worry, I am not going to hold you or this forum responsible if anyhting goes wrong].
Thirdly, The guide you pointed out in the Doom9 forum, can I use it to Convert AVI to MPEG2? As the output is shown to be with extension .m2v, is it same as MPEG2?
Now to the process and thank you for correcting me again. So should it be like as follows:
So my process will be as follows:
1. Extract the Audio using VD Mod/ VirtualDub, demux and save it as wave.
2. Use aften or EncWavtoAC3 to convert the wave audio track to AC3 audio format.
3. Use CCE or HEnc to convert the AVI to MPEG2 using the video file only. {though I am not sure whether I can customize the output to be the video file only excluding the Audio data as I am feeding both the Audio and Video when I input the AVI file- clear my doubt please]
4. Feed the resultant MPEG2 video and AC3 audio to DVD lab Pro or DVD Styler or GUI for DVD Author to complete the DVD structure.
Please correct me if I am wrong again.
Very sorry for throwing so many questions at you, please understand that I would like to prepare me completely before I jump in the Advance Conversion and DVD authoring Bandwagon.
Thank you again.আমি বাংলায় গান গাই -
I believe TmpgEnc also has a paid version to convert to Mpeg2. How will you rate it vis a vis HEnc, Procoder and CCE in terms of quality of output?
Hehe, you like to stir controversy, don't you? Here we get into really subjective areas. I use the full version of CCE, because it can do some things that the HCEnc can't, like run multiple passes, and it runs each pass about twice as fast as does HCEnc (which in turn is about twice as fast as TMPGEnc). Roughly.
I haven't used TMPGEnc and don't intend to, if for no other reason than its slowness. I'm sure it's very good, but I'll never know. I've used Procoder a couple of times but wouldn't use it regularly for what I consider 2 very good reasons. It has some kind of a built in filter (a low-pass filter, if I had to guess) that softens the picture and can't be turned off. And as near as I can tell, there's no way to use any other quantisation matrix than the lousy default Standard Matrix. It's said to be good for interlaced sources, and for noisy captures or DV. I don't encode much of that. A lot of people swear by it, and will vehemently disagree with what I've just said. I much prefer the sharp and detailed picture of encoders like CCE and HCEnc. Try all the ones you can and compare.
Secondly are you then assuring me that there is no need to waste my precious earnings behind a hefty price tag?
Hehe, no. Some people say that HCEnc is better at low bitrate encodes than is CCE. Some people say it's better at everything than is CCE. I don't know. It's damned good, though. And you can't beat the price.
though I am not sure whether I can customize the output to be the video file only excluding the Audio data as I am feeding both the Audio and Video when I input the AVI file- clear my doubt please
OK, how are you getting the AVI into your MPEG-2 encoder? If you've been using HCEnc, then you've been using an AviSynth script. And if using an AviSynth script, it's a simple matter to disable the audio so that the encoder doesn't see it:
AVISource("C:\Path\To\Movie.avi",False)#false disables the audio
http://avisynth.org/AviSource -
m2v is usually mpeg2 video, without audio.Originally Posted by src2206
Extract = demux. But save as wave is neither, it's processing/transcoding.Originally Posted by src2206
However, mostly I will just run BeSweet, or ffmpeggui, directly on the AVI. They can take the embedded MP3 and convert it on the fly to AC3. But sometimes (about 10% for me) this fails, giving a zero-volume file. Then saving as wave first usually works.
They can and will ONLY convert the video, ignoring the audio. As manono says, you might as well disable the audio completely in the AVS, just in case they cause problems.Originally Posted by src2206 -
Waho!!! অসাধারন!!!
Nope, I had no intention to start up a controversy, rather I wanted to end the controversy inside of me hehe!!
Jokes apart, what I really want is inputs from the experienced users like all those made their comments here and mostly their valuable guidance.
BTW, can any of the above encoders can handle H264 video codec? If not, please suggest a good quality converter for that too.
Again, thank you all very much as I have almost made up my mind. I am going to keep both CCE and HEnc, and try those out separately.
I shall post a report of the conversion result here as soon as I finish. My PC is bit old, ATHLON 1800+ XP, 640MB 133MHz DDR RAM and a 128MB nVidia MX series; hope it will stand up to the task.
আমি বাংলায় গান গাই -
One small point, though AlanHK covered most of it. From "1. Extract the Audio using VD Mod/ VirtualDub, demux and save it as wave. " I would change that to "1. Extract the Audio using VD Mod/ VirtualDub, and save it as a WAV with full audio processing." That will ensure you are getting just the WAV format, and not the original audio just 'wrapped' in a WAV format. Just my opinion, but VDMod works better for that. I have been using ffmpeggui for WAV>AC3 conversions, but I'm going to try aften.
I agree AVIsynth is better, but I often use VDMod and save out the audio and convert it to AC3, then frameserve just the video from the same VDMod to my encoder. When both audio and video are encoded, I drop them into TMPGEnc DVD Author, make my DVD menus, then burn. But all this can be done with freeware.
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I have some movies that Dvix avi, that aren't worth the DL time it took to get them
I also have some TV episodes 42min and around 700 meg that are absolutely excellent
so quality IS a bitrate & time thing in concert with the quality of the encoder that was used
like it has been said, you squeeze it to much , it ain't high quality anymore
mostly I use convertX for all my downloaded TV avi's
anybody got a link to that avisynth sharpening script and to a guide on how to use it with convertX,
recently got the basic CCE but i haven't installed it yet, and i downloaded DVDVrebuild from here last night.
my previous video projects did not require so many tools, but now i'm just experimenting / playing around and trying to learn more ( acquire new skills ) -
I am sorry redwudz, but I can't Seem to find Full Processing Mode in VD Mod! What am I missing?I would change that to "1. Extract the Audio using VD Mod/ VirtualDub, and save it as a WAV with full audio processing."
Thank you for your reply.আমি বাংলায় গান গাই -
In VDMod in 'Streams>Stream list', right click on your audio file and you will see 'Full processing mode' at the bottom of the list. The default audio out for this is 'No compression'. Then click 'Save WAV'. It doesn't take much longer and you may have less problems with the audio file at a later point.
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Ok, updated report:
Till now I have done this:
1. Extracted the audio using VirtualDub to wav in Full Processing mode.
2. Converted the audio to AC3 using Aften GUI.
No problem till now.
Plan to do next:
1. Make the avisynth script [seems to be the toughest one for me]
2. Drop the AVI synth script in the Encoder window [tried HEnc with AVI2DVD, so I am going to try the CCE]
3. Feed the CCE MPEG2 Video only result along with the previously saved AC3 audio in the DVD Lab Pro to get the dvd output.
Please correct if I m wrong in any of the above steps or if I need to add any more steps.
I would also appreciate if one of you could point me to a beginner's guide to DVD lab pro, tried to search this forum but could not understand which one will be suitable.
Thank you all.আমি বাংলায় গান গাই -
If you are just learning Avisynth, FitCD can generate a basic script for you and do the resizing calculations. (Both Guns1inger & AlanHK mentioned it, but perhaps you missed it?). Just thought I'd remind you.Originally Posted by src2206
Then you can edit the script as suggested above.
Pull! Bang! Darn! -
Thank you fritzi for pointing that out
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