How to convert PAL DVD camcorder footage to NTSC for editing

Ok so here is what I have:
DVD created with a Sony DVD cam, so no protection to deal with
The footage is in PAL so 25 fps, Interlaced (DGIndex as well as DVD2AVI so state). And if I understand correctly the distortion I get when playing the mpg file that was obtained when the vob was demuxed, is another show of this.

I would off course like the video to stay the best possible quality it can after conversion. However the audio is the key here.
Yes the video has audio and it’s decent. But there is a separate audio recording of the event (concert) that is off course a much better quality then what the cam got. So that is what I have to/want to use. This also means that I want to avoid at any cost changing the speed of the audio to match the video.

What I need:
To transfer this to a NTSC that I would like to edit in Adobe Premiere Pro, since the base designs were done in Photoshop and Illustrator and the animation and editing of it went to After Effects. Same for menu animation, intro, credits… So a chunk of the work is already created and waiting.

There is a suggestion that I do the editing in PAL and then do the conversion. And I did (am) consider that option. I am concerned that the quality of the animations I want to add will also lose in quality in the conversion, and that doesn’t seem necessary if the raw footage is converted first, and then the animation clips are added ready for NTSC.

Anyone tried this? Have an idea what to use and how to go about it? And any recommendations on the order of doing it?

Thanks

Hey, it's funny your asking this question.. I'm in the process of doing this right now. Someone brought me a stack of sony DVD discs, turns out they accidentally recorded a whole wedding in PAL and need it converted to NTSC and de-interlaced. as a matter of fact, as I type this the last of the video's are being renderd in TMPGEnc (13 hours rendering time in total for 3.5h of video)

Basically I followed this tutorial and it worked perfectly with nearly NO quality loss comparing the orgional to the modified side by side.
https://forum.videohelp.com/viewtopic.php?t=300144

After it's all done with and the audio is processed back into the video with my DVD authoring software I will just be using Frameserv software to be able to bring the VOB file into Premier.
and here is a tutorial on how to do that
https://forum.videohelp.com/viewtopic.php?t=261416

I hope this helps you.

Ty for the reply CompuBob

If you go the end of that conversion tutorial (well the end of it for today’s date) you will find the actual beginning of this thread. It started with the “did that, looks good why isn’t it working in Premiere Pro”.

Ok compared to what you are suggesting I didn’t go to the end of the process, since Premiere Pro can/did take the m2v file that TMPGEnc created. I loaded that file. However it reads the video file as 23.976 and not as 29.97 with 2:3 pulldown. So the video and audio are out of sync by just over 4%.

If I’m understanding you correctly you intend to take the .m2v and the audio encode a vob and then take that back to Premiere Pro for editing? And then encode a new vob file when done? Doesn’t VOB have a compression? Wont there be an additional degradation doing it twice? Am I misunderstanding what you are doing? Or am I mistaken on the issue of the compression in the VOB.

Did you test this already? The reason I’m asking if you tried this is, wont the vob still be with 2:3 pulldown. Does Premiere Pro read this with a correct time now?

Thanks

if you are outputting for DVD do not deinterlace. Leave the video as is. You will not see the interlacing on your TV.

Except for the fact that DGPulldown - any pulldown - requires that the input be progressive. I think FulciLives covers that in his PAL2NTSC guide. Unless he uses an AviSynth script that does an interlaced conversion 25i->29.97i, he'll have to deinterlace.

Hehe, lemme win one every once in awhile. Otherwise I get discouraged. You got me the other day about not letting the HCEnc do the pulldown.

Thanks,

Ok, working on it.

I’m also brining into to the thread the parts of it that started elsewhere, just so that its all in one place.

Originally Posted by manono

Hi-

You can't use DGPulldown at all unless you make it progressive first, by deinterlacing. Better, perhaps, would be to use a variation of one of xesdeeni's scripts to convert it from 25fps interlaced to 29.97fps interlaced:

LoadPlugin("C:\Path\To\DGIndex.dll")
LoadPlugin("C:\Path\To\LeakKernelDeint.dll")
MPEG2Source("C:\Path\To\Video.d2v")
LeakKernelBob(Order=1)#if TFF, (Order=0) if BFF
LanczosResize(720,480)
ChangeFPS(59.94)
SeparateFields()
SelectEvery(4,0,3)#if TFF, SelectEvery(4,1,2) if BFF
Weave()
ConvertToYUY2(Interlaced=True)#for CCE, ConvertToRGB24(Interlaced=True) for TMPGEnc

And encode for interlaced TFF. The audio doesn't have to be stretched, and no pulldown is needed. Test the script first in VDubMod to be sure it opens and to make sure movement is smooth.

http://www.geocities.com/xesdeeni2001/StandardsConversion/

Originally Posted by nev

Originally Posted by manono

Hi-
Better, perhaps, would be to use a variation of one of xesdeeni's scripts to convert it from 25fps interlaced to 29.97fps interlaced:

http://www.geocities.com/xesdeeni2001/StandardsConversion/

Did give this method (VI. PAL (Video) DVD (25i Fps) -> NTSC DVD (29.97i Fps)) an attempt (with the original script), but do have to admit I was working kinda on unshaky ground there). Got as far as the:
14. Load the AVS file into TMPGEnc as the "Video Source."

But I kept getting the message in TMPGEnc that the avs was an unsupported file.
So something somewhere I did wrong obviously. Probably in the installation of the AVISynth, ( I did make sure the .dll files were in the /system32 folder when I understood they are supposed to be) If you are willing to give me a hand with that to get it to work I would appreciate it, and definitely give it a another shot.

Thanks

Originally Posted by manono

But I kept getting the message in TMPGEnc that the avs was an unsupported file.

What I said was:

Test the script first in VDubMod to be sure it opens and to make sure movement is smooth.

The reasons for testing the script in VDubMod before sendiing to the encoder are, 1) to make sure it opens, 2) to get a useful error message if it doesn't open, and 3) advance a frame at a time to make sure it plays smoothly (i. e., the field order is correct in the script).

To make sure your AviSynth is installed correctly, make a text file named as Version.txt and renamed as Version.avs. Inside have one line:

Version()

Open that in VDubMod. You also have to have the LeakKernelDeint.dll either loaded in your script or residing in your Plugins folder. Same with the DGIndex.dll. And finally, you have to have made a D2V project file with DGIndex so you can use the MPEG2Source line (assuming the source is some kind of an MPEG). For more information, read the QuickStart Guide included with the DGMPGDec package:

http://www.neuron2.net/dgmpgdec/QuickStart.html

...with the original script

Meaning you used the SmoothDeinterlacer? Then you have to load that. However, I modified his script for a reason.

Sorry I guess I wasn’t clear on the timing of the attempt. I understand that you modified the script for a reason. I meant to say that I gave this method an attempt prior to posting anything in the first place. But I’m trying to sort the installation of all of it now. Make sure I have all the .dll’s and see if I can make it work.

I’ll be back with the results or the attempt error msg soon

Thanks

Darn, I see a mistake in what you quoted back at me. Inside the DGMPGDec package you'll need for this process (along with 3 very good guides, including the QuickStart Guide), are both DGIndex and the DGDecode.dll. Where, at the top of the script I had:

LoadPlugin("C:\Path\To\DGIndex.dll")

I meant to have written:

LoadPlugin("C:\Path\To\DGDecode.dll")

LOL, yeah, it didn’t work, but I noticed it when VirtualDubMod spit back the message that it couldn’t find the file in line 1, (hey copy paste is a charm – and yeah I did add the path to the copy paste).

Ok So far so good.

Got the AviSynth installed properly. Or at least the Version.avs gives me exactly that, the version.

The 2 .dll files LeakKernelDeint.dll & DGDecode.dll are both in the Plugins folder for VirtualDubMod (hope that is the right plugins folder and its not supposed to be the AviSynth one). *just the .dll? what about the other files that came in the download?*. And the path in the .avs file points to the .dll’s as well as the .d2v file.

Used DGIndex to get the .d2v and the .ac3 file.

The .avs loads into VDubMod. And, besides the “pixel trailing” that I’m told is the interlacing showing on the comp screen, when advanced frame by frame it seems ok, (unless I don’t know what I’m looking for when you say see if the file plays smoothly).

And now comes TMPGEnc. Not quite sure how I need to set up here.

Note: the video is widescreen, DGIndex saw it as 4:3, but I’ve had DVD2AVI and/or DGIndex see video I was transferring to Xvid in the wrong size before so I ignored it. VirtualDubMod displays it as a widescreen, but TMPGEnc is now displaying it when I load the .avs file as a 4:3. is that just the display?

Originally Posted by manono

And encode for interlaced TFF. The audio doesn't have to be stretched, and no pulldown is needed.
http://www.geocities.com/xesdeeni2001/StandardsConversion/

What setings do i use in TMPGnc? Just straight out what is the in the guide you posted to link to? Dont i have to somehow take the 16:9 into consideration?

Thanks

Hi-

hope that is the right plugins folder and its not supposed to be the AviSynth one). *just the .dll?

It's supposed to be the AviSynth Plugins folder. Sorry if I didn't make that clear. It's been years since I've used the VDub Plugins folder.

what about the other files that came in the download?*.

The important ones are DGIndex from which you make the D2V project file, and the DGDecode.dll. There are 3 good help files, and you can ignore the rest.

when advanced frame by frame it seems ok, (unless I don’t know what I’m looking for when you say see if the file plays smoothly).

If something's wrong, it'll be obvious. It'll be like 2 steps forward and one step back, real jerky/stuttery.

Note: the video is widescreen, DGIndex saw it as 4:3, but I’ve had DVD2AVI and/or DGIndex see video I was transferring to Xvid in the wrong size before so I ignored it.

DGIndex is right about 99.99% of the time. It's probably widescreen 4:3 and should be encoded for MPEG-2 as 4:3, unless you crop and resize for 16:9.

What setings do i use in TMPGnc?

Dunno, don't use it. There's a guide around here somewhere...

https://forum.videohelp.com/viewtopic.php?t=300144&highlight=pal2ntsc

It uses a D2V as the source, whereas you're using an AviSynth script file. If you're using the interlaced script for 29.97fps, he's doing it for 25fps progressive followed by pulldown. So be careful of the differences, but maybe you can get some help with the settings in there. Here's another one. Be careful of your Field Order. If you followed that script I gave you, you're interlaced TFF (Top Field First) and 4:3 (I think). You don't want to apply pulldown, as you're encoding for 29.97fps interlaced (unless you're using some other script). The GOP structure is correct in the Doom9 guide:

http://www.doom9.org/mpg/tmpg-dvdencoding.htm

It's supposed to be the AviSynth Plugins folder. Sorry if I didn't make that clear. It's been years since I've used the VDub Plugins folder.

lol, knew it. it was a 50/50 and i had a felling i should ask. OK moved and changed the path in the avs file.

If something's wrong, it'll be obvious. It'll be like 2 steps forward and one step back, real jerky/stuttery.

OK, then its fine, no such skipping is happening. and it does look ok

DGIndex is right about 99.99% of the time. It's probably widescreen 4:3 and should be encoded for MPEG-2 as 4:3, unless you crop and resize for 16:9.

Now here you lost me. What do you mean by widescreen 4:3?

One thing i can note here is that for some reason when ever i have widescreen video from that camera some programs have a problem with seeing that.. and they see it as a 4:3. (has happend in the past) and then the video is played back "squished" so yeah everyone looks nice and model slim and tall, and no one complains that they have to lose wight, but obviously its not the way its suposed to play.

For example: i tried using the VOB2MPG to combine 2 vob files to 1 mpg and it does it but the result plays back as such a squshed image with everyone elongated. (in the same players where the original vob played fine before)

setings for TMPGnc

looking at the guides you posted
and yes using the script you posted

thanks for the help

Hi-

Now here you lost me. What do you mean by widescreen 4:3?

4:3 and 16:9 are DARs (Display Aspect Ratios). 4:3 isn't by definition "Fullscreen", although it usually is. 16:9 isn't by definition "Widescreen", although it almost always is. They just tell the player how the video is to be resized. Here's a comparison, where 16:9=anamorphic and 4:3=non-anamorphic:

http://www.thedigitalbits.com/articles/anamorphic/anamorphic185demo.html

That being said, though, I have heard that some cameras cap at what they say is 4:3 where it's really 16:9. Maybe I should modify that statement about DGIndex being right 99.99% of the time. It's actually right 100% of the time. It's reading the DAR as encoded into the file. But it can't spot incorrect DARs. It can't tell that the people are tall and thin after the resize. One way to find out what it really is is to open the script in VDubMod. Then right-click the screen and alternately check "4:3 frame ratio" and "16:9 frame ratio" to see which looks the more "normal". If in doubt, try and find something round (sun, moon, ball, clock, etc.) and make sure it's round and not oval shaped. I'm using VDubMod v. 1.5.10.2. I don't know if it's like that for all versions of VDubMod. I don't know if the other VDub variants have that capability.

God, that page has been there forever. I remember seeing it years ago when I was trying to figure things out for the dvd to xvid conversion. Its still one of the better visual references i've see for the explanation.

Somehow, I had a feeling that non-anamorphic vs anamorphic would be involved in the 4:3 widescreen explanation.

And my bad, I should have been more clear then just stating widescreen.
Its 16:9 anamorphic.

It was recorded as 16:9 (or so the camera setting states). The original dvd plays like that, on both the comp and tv. And yeah I do think the wrong aspect ratio is for some reason encoded into the files. And a lot of programs don’t see it right.

Both DVD2AVI and GDindex display the frame ratio as 4:3. the mpg created with DVD2MPG wont play in the proper 16:9 ratio no matter what I try to play it with, and how that program played the vob. Just changing the .vob to .mpg (that can sometimes work) creates the same problem of the squished picture every time with the output from this camera. (something tells me I’ll be having a chat with the Sony boys after the holidays over this. It makes working with the files really hard. Since even the mpg files created by the Sony software that came with the camera still keeps the blasted 4:3 frame ratio encoded, which means they play wrong)

Great not only do I have to deal with a PAL camera and footage in the NTSC corner of the world, the files are schizophrenic on top of it.

And yeah the TMPGEnc encoding didn’t work. The image is squished in all players.

Argh. Now I have to figure out how to convince it to see the file as what I really is and not as what the file has delusions of being.

Additional scripts in the .avs file? (Who? What? Where? Why? (no no scratch that, we know why) HOW? - That I have no clue)
Any ideas at which level/step to deal with this?

Thanks

Hi-

Both DVD2AVI and GDindex display the frame ratio as 4:3.

Are you talking about the picture as shown in DGIndex? It's showing the raw unresized video as created. It's showing the 720x480 (3:2) video. When you run the preview (File->Preview) or save the project file (D2V), an information window opens up which shows the DAR. If 4:3, that 720x480 video gets resized to 640x480 (480 x 4/3 = 640) at playback. If 16:9, that 720x480 video gets resized to 854x480 (480 x 16/9 = 853.333) at playback.

The original dvd plays like that, on both the comp and tv.

The DAR is set in 2 places on a DVD, in the IFOs and in the video itself. DGIndex just reads the video, so if it's wrong there, it'll show it incorrectly. If the video has it wrong, but the IFOs have it right, the DVD will still play correctly, as it's the IFOs that DVD players read.

If having the wrong DAR in the video bothers you, or messes you up when editing, you can correct it using DVDPatcher or ReStream. It shouldn't mess you up when encoding as long as you set it up properly for the encode (and if you don't listen to me telling you to encode for 4:3 when you know damn well that's wrong).

And yeah the TMPGEnc encoding didn’t work. The image is squished in all players.

So you can try and correct it without reencoding, and then reauthor. If you've already authored it to DVD, you can do the same thing your source DVD did, just make sure the IFOs are set for 16:9. This can be accomplished using IFOEdit or PGCEdit. I think PGCEdit is the easier of the 2 with which to work.

Open the DVD in PGCEdit, highlight the video (make it grey), click on the green roll of film icon in the top row, and in the new screen, change from 4:3 to 16:9 Automatic Letterbox. OK, Save, and test it out. If it checks out, delete the backup PGCEdit made. If you somehow mess up, replace the IFOs PGCEdit backed up for you and start again

Additional scripts in the .avs file? (Who? What? Where? Why? (no no scratch that, we know why) HOW? - That I have no clue)
Any ideas at which level/step to deal with this?

I'm sorry, but I don't understand.

Are you talking about the picture as shown in DGIndex?
No not the picture, not that its right there, but that i dont expect to see it right.
i mean the informatin window shows 4:3

i'll try to fix the DAR with DVDPatcher or ReStream as you sugested and then redo this, and see what happens. 4 min clip test this time. Should have done the test in the first place for this as well, thought of it but then ohh well..

I'm sorry, but I don't understand.

Its ok, too much coffee, not enough sleep, dealing with a schizophrenic video makes me forget that not everyone is versed or up to translating my short code (read gibberish) when I toss it out there. Actually it should make you feel good. Makes you normal. Its those who actually understand that we should be afraid of.

Translation into human speak:

Additional scripts in the .avs file? = Should the 16:9 frame ratio “enforcing” be added into the .avs file somewhere?

Who? What? Where? Why? (no no scratch that, we know why) HOW? - That I have no clue = General expression of not knowing if that is the way to do it. And if it is the place and way, how to do it. But expressing the knowledge of why the aspect ration needs to be “enforced” somewhere

Any ideas at which level/step to deal with this? = you actually did get this one without maybe realizing.. it was pertaining as to at which point to try to “medicate” the file from its delusions of 4:3 and make it say its 16:9 – ok definitely too much coffee.. my translation needs a translation. – does the 16:9 “enforcing”/”overwriting “ the 4:3 to 16:9 happen in the AviSynth script, at the point of TMPGEnc encoding or before all that. You said try DVDPatcher or ReStream to change the DAR and try again. So see you got it.

As to and if you don't listen to me telling you to encode for 4:3 when you know damn well that's wrong
Blame it on the lack of sleep. Waking up on the keyboard in the morning with what seems to be a permanent imprint of the space bar on my face tends to throw me off for the rest of the day. Thus the above shorthand and the general suspension of disbelief of everything said.

thanks for the help, and i'll post the results of the this last try (or come back to whine) as soon as i have them

Thanks guns1inger

This is my first try at using Avisynth. So I’m really not familiar with what it can or can’t do. Actually to be more precise. I have no clue what it can or can’t do. Or how it does what it does. I hate working “blind” as in not knowing what I’m actually doing, but at the moment I understand line 1-3 and line 5 (and am guessing line 8 has something to do with the interlacing – but could be way off base here) of the Avisynth script that manono was kind to write.

But hey, anywhere I turned on the forum when I was looking for a possible solution for this, someone was posting a variation on “No, No that is wrong, Avisynth can do it better just do..” cant blame me for thinking it has other magical properties.

Originally Posted by guns1inger

In the hands of someone like Manono, I think sometimes it does have magical properties.

I am crossing my fingers and hoping it does, looks good so far

Back with the results. The DVDPatcher said it patched the vob and when I open it in the DVDPatcher again it still states the “new” 16:9. However DGIndex still displays the information as 4:3. (after a quick flicker of 16:9) So I figured I’ll try to set it in TMPGEnc. Set up the 16:9 there. Did it on a short (really short clip) and because of the interlacing its hard to see how good the results are on the pc. So went all the way and authored the dvd files and compared to the original same clip. Looks good, I’m a bit dizzy from trying to flip from one to the other to try to compare. But there is nothing glaringly wrong with the new one. Seems like it worked

I’ll run the whole thing from the top and lets see if anyone has any objections to any of the setting I used.

Load the VOB’s in DGIndex
Left the "Field Operation" sub-menu of the "Video" menu at what the default was for “Honor pulldown flags”
Checked the "Demux All Tracks" item in the "Output Method" sub-menu of the "Audio" menu.
Got 2 files: one .d2v and one .ac3

Created .avs file with the script

LoadPlugin("C:\Path\to\DGDecode.dll")
LoadPlugin("C:\Path\to\LeakKernelDeint.dll")
MPEG2Source("D:\Path\to\clip.d2v")
LeakKernelBob(Order=1)#if TFF, (Order=0) if BFF
LanczosResize(720,480)
ChangeFPS(59.94)
SeparateFields()
SelectEvery(4,0,3)#if TFF, SelectEvery(4,1,2) if BFF
Weave()
ConvertToYUY2(Interlaced=True)#for CCE, ConvertToRGB24(Interlaced=True) for TMPGEnc

(yeah yeah I did change the path/to to the actual path)

Loaded the .avs file as the video file in TMPGenc.

Here is where some fuzzy uncertainty begins.

When the file was loaded it displays as:

Video Source type: Interlace
Filed Order: Bottom field first (field B)
Source aspect ratio: 4:3 525 line (NTSC, 704x480)

Ok, can someone please explain what is going on here, I’d really appreciate it.
The interlace I understand. The PAL original is interlaced the new one will be too.

Looking at

Originally Posted by manono

If you followed that script I gave you, you're interlaced TFF (Top Field First) and 4:3.

I don’t understand why is it showing the file as - Filed Order: Bottom field first (field B) I’m using the exact script manono wrote.

Source aspect ratio: 4:3 525 line (NTSC, 704x480)
Ok. I get why its 4:3 that is the incorrect information in the DAR.
525 line I don’t know what it referees to
And the NTSC, 704x480 I don’t understand where it’s coming from and why 704x480
And I’d really like to understand that one.

Also should I keep that? That is what TMPGEnc reads when the .avs is loaded. So keep it and just specify that the output needs to be 16:9 or change the input to correct for the aspect ratio.

Id really like to understand what is going on since I’ll need to do this again and again and again. And I’d like to make sure I’m actually doing this last bit right.

thanks

I have only used DVD Patcher on mpeg streams, not VOBs.

And I've never used it at all. I've used ReStream quite a bit, though, to fix things when I set the wrong DAR in CCE. As I understand it, DVDPatcher has 2 ways to set the DAR, one being just for the beginning or first header or something. The other, and the one you want, does it for the whole file. So, look for some sort of setting to do that. Maybe someone more familiar with it can supply better details. I don't know whether or not it has to be an M2V or if VOBs are OK. When using ReStream, it only accepts unmultiplexed M2Vs or MPVs, and not VOBs. And it creates a brand new M2V/MPV. And it definitely works.

Filed Order: Bottom field first (field B)

Like I said earlier, I don't use TMPGEnc, but it's very possible it defaults to BFF and isn't really telling you what yours is. Or it's also possible you created a BFF script, in spite of my instructions. You can add Info() to the bottom of the script (or anywhere in the script in order to check the field information at that point) to check if you're TFF or BFF. The place to get that information is when making the D2V file using DGIndex originally. Run the Preview with Honor Pulldown Flags set and it'll tell you. It's possible you just lucked into doing it right (created a BFF script and encoded for BFF). It's also possible that it'll play all jerky on your TV. Do you have a DVD-RW to burn it to for testing without (possibly) ruining a DVDR? But if you followed my instructions, you created a TFF script for encoding as TFF. My friend Serbian Boss likes to create BFF scripts for encoding as BFF. 6 of 1 or half a dozen of the other, I guess, as long as it comes out right in the end.

Huston we have liftoff. Sort of. Kind of.

The help file for DVD Patcher, at least the one I have is in German, and mine is rusty. But this much I can understand “Einfach das MPEG File (*.mpg, *.m2v, *.vob...) via drag and drop auf die Programmoberfläche ziehen” The DVD Patcher info you gave was the answer to that question. When I now redid it for the whole file, the info in DGIndex now displays as 16:9

Redoing the d2v file to see what I now get in TMPGEnc as the input file specs.

Ok the d2v is done, loaded the avs into TMPGEnc and the source file it gets is exactly the same. I feel like ripping a vob of a dvd just to see what I get.

Thanks also for the reference file for the other info. Gave it a quick skim over, think I get it. Will really read it in the morning.. well in the morning that isn’t 4:30AM. At the moment the details are beyond my brain capacity. The vertical lines of resolution are starting to swimming off the screen and the horizontal ones are having a full scale rebellion.

Huston we have a problem.

Here is the info from DGIndex:
Frame structure: Frame
Filed Order: Top

Now here is the exact copy paste of the .avs file, path and all (which is the exact copy paste of what you posted – except for the path)

LoadPlugin("C:\Program Files\AviSynth 2.5\plugins\DGDecode.dll")
LoadPlugin("C:\Program Files\AviSynth 2.5\plugins\LeakKernelDeint.dll")
MPEG2Source("D:\Ddvd\DGfileTest\test.d2v")
LeakKernelBob(Order=1)#if TFF, (Order=0) if BFF
LanczosResize(720,480)
ChangeFPS(59.94)
SeparateFields()
SelectEvery(4,0,3)#if TFF, SelectEvery(4,1,2) if BFF
Weave()
ConvertToYUY2(Interlaced=True)#for CCE, ConvertToRGB24(Interlaced=True) for TMPGEnc


Here is the info for from running the avs with Info() in VirtualDubMod

Frame: 0
ColorSpace: YUY2
Width: 720 Pixels, Height:480 Pixels
Frames per second: 29.9700
FieldBased (separated) video: NO
Parity: Bottom Field First
Video Pitch: 1440 bytes
Has Audio: NO
Audio Channels: 0
Sample Type: None
Samples per second: 0

Any ideas?

Hi-

First, since you're encoding in TMPGEnc, you use ConvertToRGB24(Interlaced=True). The line I gave you:

ConvertToYUY2(Interlaced=True)#for CCE, ConvertToRGB24(Interlaced=True) for TMPGEnc

means you use one if encoding in CCE and the other in TMPGEnc. The "#" in the script means that nothing after it is actually part of the script. I'm using it to make notes to you. You're using TMPGEnc, so you convert to RGB24, which TMPGEnc accepts natively.

And after trying to figure this out, I think the problem is due to the ChangeFPS which perhaps is changing the field order. I don't have any video like yours on which to test. Nor have I ever used that filter the way it's used in that script, to help do an interlaced conversion from PAL to NTSC. Nor can I test the fix, so I'll have to leave it to you. I did some research on the subject, and never had to do the kinds of things as suggested in this thread, because the filtering I do, and the filters I use, don't mess with the field order:

http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=594174#post594174

scharfis_brain is the resident Doom9 interlaced video expert and IanB is an AviSynth developer. I think the fix to get the field orders squared away is to specify TFF or BFF as you go along, as scharfi suggests:

LoadPlugin("C:\Program Files\AviSynth 2.5\plugins\DGDecode.dll")
LoadPlugin("C:\Program Files\AviSynth 2.5\plugins\LeakKernelDeint.dll")
MPEG2Source("D:\Ddvd\DGfileTest\test.d2v")
AssumeTFF()
LeakKernelBob(Order=1)
LanczosResize(720,480)
ChangeFPS(59.94)
AssumeTFF()
SeparateFields()
SelectEvery(4,0,3)
Weave()
ConvertToRGB24(Interlaced=True)

And encode for TFF in TMPGEnc. So, if you originally encoded for Bottom Field First in TMPGEnc, maybe I was right in one of my guesses:

It's possible you just lucked into doing it right (created a BFF script and encoded for BFF).

So, no need to reencode it. If the DVD seems to be OK, burn it to disc, check it out in your standalone, and hope for the best. And if you ever have to do this kind of thing in the future, keep that script nearby.

The only thread I could find that directly addresses what you're doing (interlaced PAL to interlaced NTSC) is this one:

http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=111493&highlight=PAL+interlaced+to+NTSC

Mug Funky in response used an AssumeTFF, but also SelectEvery(4, 1, 2) which makes it BFF again, and no advice on how to encode it. This is pretty complex stuff sometimes. I apologize if I mislead you.

The "#" in the script means that nothing after it is actually part of the script. I'm using it to make notes to you.
Oooops..
i did say i hated working blind. I know i said it somewhere a few posts up. and considering i'v never used AviSynth before i'm somewhere about as blind as a bat on this part


I don't have any video like yours on which to test.
say you want it, and i'll upload a short clip somewhere for dowload. you can have all the fun with it you can think of

never had to do the kinds of things as suggested in this thread, because the filtering I do, and the filters I use, don't mess with the field order
not sure i get this. what is messing with the field order here? can we just not mess with it?
It wasnt meeeeeeee

Originally Posted by manono

And encode for TFF in TMPGEnc.

yeah see, that sentance i dont get. am i manualy setting the Filed Order in TMPGEnc? or is that set up "to be done" from the .avs file? what do you mean with "and encode for TFF in TMPGEnc"?

So, no need to reencode it.
i've been working with a short few min clip on the tests.. that way i didnt have to wait 3 hours to find out somehting didnt work. so the actual whole recording still needs to be encoded. and i can try the script without the comment remarks in it.

I'm at work now, but i will run the file with the new script later today.

This is pretty complex stuff sometimes. I apologize if I mislead you.
if it was easy i wouldnt need to be asking for help. and you didnt misslead me and thank you for the help

will be back later with the results

Hi-

Yeah, it's tough when you're flying blind and don't understand what you're doing. The main AviSynth site is down, but should be back up shortly. It's here:

http://www.avisynth.org/

There is some stuff available there. There's a pretty good, but by no means complete, mirror here, with a lot of basic information:

http://www.avisynth.org.ru/docs/english/

say you want it, and i'll upload a short clip somewhere for dowload. you can have all the fun with it you can think of

Sure, I'll have a look. To get it a bit smaller, remove the audio. Open a Vob in DGIndex, use the [ and ] buttons to isolate a section (with movement, preferably), and then File->Save Project and Demux Video. Upload the M2V somewhere. I'll give you a place where if you need.

what is messing with the field order here?

AviSynth's default field order is BFF. Sometimes for one reason or another (interlaced video isn't really my thing, I much prefer movies) it reverts to BFF. I suspect in this case it's the ChangeFPS command doing it. Not really sure, but I think that inserting the TFF commands can straighten it out. Anyway, the result of winding up with the wrong field order is a horribly jerky and unwatchable video. You'll instantly know it when you see it. There are 2 pieces to the field order puzzle. You have to do it correctly in the script, and know what you wound up with. You then have to set it up same way in your encoder (either TFF or BFF). Since I use CCE, and it defaults to TFF, I always keep mine TFF. It looks like BFF is TMPGEnc's default, but changing it to TFF is as easy as selecting Parity: Top Field First in the drop down box. You want to make sure you know what the final field order is in the script (the Info command), and you then have to set it up for that order in your encoder. You also should test the script in VDubMod before sending it to the encoder, to make sure it's OK, that it opens, and that a frame-by-frame advance plays smoothly.

It wasnt meeeeeeee

Hehe, I know that. And I kind of got sucked into it myself, as all I was doing was passing on a variation of xesdeeni's script. Showing me the results of that Info command kind of threw me for a loop.

Since the encode only takes 3 hours, I don't know why you haven't done it already. If it doesn't turn out well, just do it over after making changes. You can set it to encode while you're at work, or overnight, and check the results.

Thanks guys

Ok so now with the new script you posted above, VirtualDubMod displays the RGB24 and the TTF.

And when I load the file into TMPGEnc it also loads the TTF as the information in avs file.

Running the encoding of the short clip now. So I’ll know what that looks like in a bit.

I’ve uploaded the file to
http://rapidshare.com/files/8612342/upload_clip.rar

there are actually 2 versions in there. One from the original virgin vob the other from the vob that has been DVDPatched to 16:9. (in that order, but I think you can tell off the bat which one is which) you said something with movement. Not much movement in the video. At least not big movement. But this clip gives some movement detail.

thanks for the reference info. My brain might fry on overload, but I’m reading. There is always a little bit more space in there to cram something new in.

FYI. My favorite sentence so far: The scripts for this are easy to write...
Right...

Since the encode only takes 3 hours, I don't know why you haven't done it already.
the encode of one of the 3 parts takes about 3-4 hr. i've been testing on a 2 min clip for speed. In the normal mode of things i would be able to leave it to crank while gone, but i'm one comp down and this one has been cranking somethign else at those times that is on a higher lever of ASAP. But the mini tests are good enough to see quickly how it looks. and btw, there is no such thing as over night. that would asume i sleep. i've kinda forgothen what that is.

I just had a look at the sample. The script works well on it. Since cutting a section out can change the field order, just make sure you check the field order of each of your 3 sections when creating the D2V files, and again at the end of the scripts. Good luck.