Windows XP to be retired in 2008

Originally Posted by idigii

If users refuse to upgrade, they'll just stop the patch service on that version, take 98 for example, to force people to upgrade. That's how MS make money. And I don't see any necessity to upgrade if my system has firewall and anti-virus program.

That's pretty much how I feel. Added to that, I've never upgraded in the past until the new OS being offered did something I wanted to do that the old OS couldn't do. I have never stood in a line in front of a computer store, waiting with bated breath for a new OS to be released.

My first computer ran DOS 4.2. I later upgraded to the very last DOS version because it had an "undelete" feature (and I'd made a few unfortunate blunders on that score in the past). I upgraded to Win3.1 because I wanted to use a graphical browser. Previously, I browsed the net textually in a UNIX shell with Lynx, logging onto my UNIX shell ISP in DOS. I upgraded to Win95 because a friend had it and it ran so much faster than my 3.1. The computer finally died and my new computer already had Win98SE on it.

Finally, I upgraded to WinXP since I'd started doing video captures and wanted to burn DVDs (and escape the 4-gig filesize limits of FAT32). No ME. No NT. No 2000 in between. And FWIW, I still have my current desktop's main hard drive partitioned with XP on one half and Win98SE on the other ... because some utilities I like to use are older and don't have functioning XP drivers. And even now, I still use my XP partition primarily for AV editing and CD/DVD authoring/burning. I receive all my email on my Win98SE side and do the lion's share of my non-AV work in that partition. I also like Win98SE better than XP because I like to make my own computing decisions and not have them made for me "as a favor" (like XP does sometimes). Also, Win98SE and Win98SE software don't "phone home" as much as XP and XP-based software does ... and I always wonder what info is being transmitted when I see the home-phoning go on.

In any case, I plan on staying with XP ... even if I have to do something tricky to keep it going when support goes away. From what I've read, Vista does nothing I'd want to do that XP doesn't already do for me. And personally (a lot of tech writers agree, too), I think the licensing agreement for Vista is a bit too Orwellian for my tastes.

I recently bought a brand new HP Pavillion notebook computer ... and I chose it primarily because it was one of the last four notebooks in the store that still had an XP system onboard (everything else was Vista-fied). But since owning my Pavillion, and being a member of the HP forum for Pavillions, I've noticed a trend. Here are some links to posts made by Pavillion or Presario owners who bought a Vista-fied computer and are attempting to switch it to XP or have already done so (notice I didn't use the term downgrade ... since to some extent, I consider a Vista-to-XP conversion to be an upgrade):

http://forums1.itrc.hp.com/service/forums/bizsupport/questionanswer.do?threadId=111766...87492+28353475

http://forums1.itrc.hp.com/service/forums/bizsupport/questionanswer.do?threadId=111767...20462+28353475

http://forums1.itrc.hp.com/service/forums/bizsupport/questionanswer.do?threadId=111770...92293+28353475

http://forums1.itrc.hp.com/service/forums/bizsupport/questionanswer.do?threadId=111776...02545+28353475

It kind of makes me wonder about the extent to which people are doing such switches. Not all of them own HP equipment ... and not all of them post to forums for help. It would be nice if some tech-savvy writer did a poll to see how many current XP users tried Vista and switched to XP later.

BTW, the forum is filled with posts from people who are having a multitude of driver-related problems with Vista. So, there may be a few more switchbacks in the works.

Originally Posted by jagabo

Originally Posted by idigii

If users refuse to upgrade, they'll just stop the patch service on that version...

It's even better (for Microsoft) with XP. They can stop product activation.

As mentioned earlier, methods have been found to circumvent the need for online activation. A coworker has such a system running WinXP Pro ... and it's never been activated. He's never used the WGA tool ... and he has to download and install other updates manually:

http://www.softwarepatch.com/windows/index.html

But otherwise, it works ... and it can be reinstalled umpteen times if need be with no problem. Point is, if Microsoft stops providing updates, it'll just mean he'll have no more updates to download and install (less work).

Originally Posted by jagabo

Of course there would be a huge revolt if Microsoft did that.

I think the revolt already started. 8) And not even Vista is safe. Read this article:

http://apcmag.com/5512/pirate_crack_vista_oem_activation

Well I'm set no matter what MS does. I have a new HP desktop with VISTA PREMIUM and like it pretty well. It's not "a must have" by any stretch of the imagination but now I don't have to upgrade at all.

I plan on keeping my emachine that has XP on it exactly as it is. I will have both running so I can do whatever I want. As games start pushing towards VISTA only I will be able to keep up without touching my XP computer. And my xp computer can keep plugging away well into obsolescence. I don't care if patches stop or not. I have norton on it and if it starts getting whacked with viruses once patches stop I'll simply unplug it from the net and use it solely as a media server for my wifi network. I don't plan on putting any new OS on that computer. Now that I have VISTA I'm all set. Microsoft can do whatever they want.

Actually I'm still suprised that I haven't ever needed to reformat my xp machine. It's three or four years old now and still has the original xp install on it - it came with the sp2 patch on it. Now of course I have the automatic update enabled but I haven't reformatted the computer once.

I'm pretty happy with Windows. It does everything I need it to.

Originally Posted by Barnabas

Vista has made me start playing around with Linux. From what I can see, Linux is REALLY starting to take off. I intend to stick with XP and Linux, and only when I buy a new machine will I have to get stuck with Vista.

Well, you don't HAVE to get stuck with Vista. BJ_M has de-Vistafied his system to XP. Otherwise, you and I are in sync. Later this year, I'll be getting a new desktop computer from a "builder" - with up to four blank hard drives installed (grin). I'll insist that the computer use components with drivers available for WinXP, Win98SE, and Linux and provide CDs with those drivers on them. Then, I'll install each OS on its own hard drive. The 4th drive will be strictly for video captures. Needless to say, this will require a LARGE case ... not to mention a good chunk of money. But, I want my next desktop purchase to be my last for the foreseeable future.

One final comment and I'll go back into my hole (grin). Earlier, I said that a coworker had an XP Pro version installed on his computer that did not require activation. However, I'm well aware of the #1 rule in this forum:

Do NOT give, link, ask, or advocate WAREZ.

So, all I will say is this. I will NOT under any circumstances allow myself to be forced to upgrade to Vista. End-of-line. 8)

Dell brings back XP on home systems


CNET News.com
Published: April 19, 2007, 11:04 AM PDT
Last modified: April 19, 2007, 3:56 PM PDT


update Dell is bringing XP back.

Amid significant customer demand, the computer maker said on Thursday that it has returned to offering the older Windows version as an option on some of its consumer PCs.

Like most computer makers, Dell switched nearly entirely to Vista-based systems following Microsoft's mainstream launch of the operating system in January. However, the company said its customers have been asking for XP as part of its IdeaStorm project, which asks customers to help the company come up with product ideas.

"We heard you loud and clear on bringing the Windows XP option back to our Dell consumer PC offerings," Dell said on its Ideas in Action page. Users get to vote on various suggestions, and the notion of bringing back XP got 10,000 "points," making it among the most popular requests but well below top picks such as adding Linux or OpenOffice.org to its PCs.

Windows XP systems became scarce, but not impossible to find, after Vista arrived. For example, Hewlett-Packard said it would continue selling XP on some machines aimed at small and midsize businesses, while CompUSA still stocks a couple of business-oriented XP systems in its retail stores. Lenovo has also continued shipping XP on many of its business systems.

Starting immediately, Dell said, it is adding XP Home and Professional as options on four Inspiron laptop models and two Dimension desktops.

Earlier this month, Dell added XP back as an option for small-business customers, but at the time, it said it would not add it back for home users.

"Dell does not have plans to launch Windows XP for home users as the preference, and demand is for the 'latest and greatest' technology, which includes Windows Vista," Tom West, director of small-business marketing at Dell, said in a blog posting at the time.

Analysts say Dell's move is not a good sign for Windows Vista.

"That there is remaining demand from some segment of (the) consumer market points to the inability of Vista to resonate with consumers," IDC analyst Richard Shim said.

There was an initial bump for Vista sales right after its launch, Shim said, but some of that may have been from consumers who delayed purchasing a PC late last year. Sales in the later part of the first quarter were less strong, he said. The overall response to Vista will become clearer throughout the year, he said.

Current Analysis research director Samir Bhavnani said most of the demand for XP he sees is from small businesses, rather than consumers.

"They know that XP works," Bhavnani said. "It's not that they don't want to upgrade to Vista. They just don't want to upgrade to Vista yet."

In a sense, the issue isn't the relatively small number of PC buyers demanding XP, but it's whether Vista is having any affect on the PC market as a whole.

In announcing PC sales data, Gartner said this week that Vista's launch "had very limited impact on overall worldwide shipment demand on a quarterly basis."

Bhavnani blamed some of the lackluster results on a lack of marketing, noting he sees more ads for Apple than for Vista.

"It's been a very soft launch," Bhavnani said. "I think you will see Vista create additional demand for PCs in the back half of this year."

Microsoft product manager Michael Burk said in a statement: "Dell is responding appropriately to a small minority of customers that had this specific request. But, as they have said before, the vast majority of consumers want the latest and greatest technology, and that includes Windows Vista."



The software maker has said it will stop selling Windows XP to large PC makers by January. Smaller computer sellers, known as system builders, will be able to sell XP machines for an additional year.

In a statement last week, Microsoft said such a move is normal after a new operating system comes out.

"Windows Vista is safer, easier to use, better connected and more entertaining than any operating system we've ever released, and we're encouraged by the positive customer response we've seen to date," the company said. "It's standard practice to allow OEMs, retailers and system builders to continue offering the previous version of Windows for a certain period of time after a new version is released."

Here are some possible future dots (grin):

1) Dell finds their sales go up since switching home systems back to XP.

2) Competitors notice and copy Dell.

3) Vista users continue to downgrade to XP.

4) Microsoft finds that fewer and fewer Vista home computers are "phoning home" while the number of XP home computers "phoning home" increases.

5) Microsoft announces an extension of the XP OEM sales deadline to 1/1/09 - and in the same press release, announces a major Service Pack upgrade in Vista's future (replete with all the drivers that should have been installed in the first place).

6) Apple announces a new Mac OS that "incorporates" a new OS11 with virtual environments supporting WinXP and Linux.

7) In a joint venture, Apple & Sun Microsystems buy out Microsoft in 2013 (grin).

P.S. By the way, Dell didn't only offer XP as an option to consumers, they also offered Linux (Ubuntu?). See the last paragraph of the article link below ... and gamers should pay PARTICULAR attention to what is said in the 2nd-to-last paragraph:

http://www.efytimes.com/efytimes/fullnews.asp?edid=18447&magid=11

Originally Posted by BJ_M

Dell brings back XP on home systems


CNET News.com
Published: April 19, 2007, 11:04 AM PDT
Last modified: April 19, 2007, 3:56 PM PDT


update Dell is bringing XP back.

Amid significant customer demand, the computer maker said on Thursday that it has returned to offering the older Windows version as an option on some of its consumer PCs.

They may be bringing XP back - but they're doing it very quietly. If you visit Dell.com and peruse ALL of their desktop options, every one of them shows Vista as the only option. So, I called their toll-free number.

The Dell Rep said that XP is only offered to telephone customers who specifically ask for it. And since I was on the phone (and planned on getting a desktop soon anyway), I decided to see if he could "build" one for me at a reasonable price. I admit, the price he quoted was reasonable - $897 for:

1) AMD 32/64 Athlon CPU (speed not discussed)

2) WinXP Home Edition (OEM disk included, no "recovery" disk scenario).

3) NVIDIA GeForce 6150 LE Integrated Graphics GPU.

4) 2GB Single Channel DDR2 SDRAM at 667MHz - 1DIMM.

5) Two 160GB SATA Hard Drives (7200RPM) w/DataBurst Cache.

6) Two DVD+-RW burners.

7) 3-year in-home warranty.

He also assured me there'd be no bloatware installed ... just the OS. And, I told him I'd not need a new monitor. However, though I had the money to buy it, I didn't. Why?

At the onset of our call, I told the rep I wanted a "turnkey" system. But when it got to the time for ordering, he told me that the two DVD burners would be shipped separately - that they don't install them at the factory. I said, "Whoa, whoa ... if that's true, show me the specific language in your service agreement where you guarantee me that "cracking the box" doesn't void my warranty." He pointed me to this one area of the service agreement that had no such language, and I told him so. He then went on a rant about how he got me a great deal ... and that it was only good if I ordered it from him today.

I seem to recall that tactic used on a number of auto sales lots ... avoiding the issue of customer concern and pressing for the sale. Wisely or not, I hung up on him.

Originally Posted by JohnnyMalaria

Originally Posted by AlecWest

They may be bringing XP back - but they're doing it very quietly. If you visit Dell.com and peruse ALL of their desktop options, every one of them shows Vista as the only option. So, I called their toll-free number.

That's not quite true.

Go to http://www.dell.com

Then select Desktops for Home and Home Office
On the right side bar it says "Still looking for Windows XP?"

I honestly didn't see that. But maybe that's why it was so small (grin) ... because they didn't want people to see it.

Originally Posted by JohnnyMalaria

Click the More Details link
Ignore their last attempt to divert you to Vista
Listed for all to see are XP Home-based systems
There's a link to other desktops with XP - those you can customize with your choice of OS:

And then, customize other things - but only up to a point.

1) There is no provision to choose more than one hard drive pre-installed.
2) There is no provision to choose more than one DVD burner pre-installed.
3) There is no provision to choose "no monitor" (and subtract from the total).

Originally Posted by JohnnyMalaria

Originally Posted by AlecWest

The Dell Rep said that XP is only offered to telephone customers who specifically ask for it.

Evidently, this rep didn't know his arse from his elbow....

Even worse. Hoping that your suspicion was correct, I logged onto Dell's live chat to ask the questions again - hoping to get a better answer. But, assuming the chat rep is correct, the answer was worse. Simply put, Dell's website is "ala-carte" (what you see is what you get). The 2nd hard drive and 2nd DVD burner would be shipped separately and I'd have to crack the box to install them myself. I could probably do it (I've done it before). But before doing it, I'd want to see something in writing indicating that I wouldn't void my warranty in the process ... and neither rep could point me to such a written statement.

One last thing, too. The telephone rep said I'd be provided with a WinXP Home OEM disk. But the chat rep said, "No, only a recovery disk."

Originally Posted by JohnnyMalaria

Originally Posted by AlecWest

Wisely or not, I hung up on him.

Wisely, I'd say.

After all this, I concur. I knew there was a reason why I liked buying local, hehe.

Originally Posted by edDV

Win98se works fine but is vulnerable on unprotected internet. Needs a tight firewall policy.

To a point. Once, my AVG antivirus detected a virus on my 98SE partition. But when I checked to see what the virus did, it apparently altered a file that only exists in a directory on an XP drive. In Win98SE, the directory didn't exist (eg., the virus crashed). As OS types move on, so do virus/worm writers. And the more systems change from Win98SE, the less likely it would be that malware would be written to affect it.

Or to put it simply, Win98SE is slowly fading away into obscurity as an OS. Fortunately, as the old saying goes, "There's safety in obscurity."

P.S. WinXP came out in 2003. Now, in 2007 (and more true in the future), there are some high school students who went through their entire 4 years without knowing or using Win98SE. And soon, mentioning it to a high school student might garner the same expression as asking them what a "slide-rule" is. Feel old yet, hehe.

And speaking of firewalls, while ZoneLabs has abandoned support for Win98SE, their last Win98SE compatible version is still downloadable on a number of sites. I have it in my software archives already. If anyone needs it, here's one place to get it (The College of Micronesia):

ftp://shark.comfsm.fm/pub/zlsSetup_61_744_001_en.exe

For those of you not big on XPs Automatic Updates, format often or deal with lots of computers, should take a look at autopatcher. It offers all WinXP updates into one install package (the process is controlled for proper installtion/multiple reboots when necessary), as well as add-ons (.NET, TweakUI, PowerToys, and more), and various optional registry tweaks.

Most importantly, it lets you chose exactly what you want to install. Once you download a base update, all you need are the monthly update packages. - The distribution method is going to change slightly with the next version, which will support Vista, see the site.

I highly suggest reading the FAQ.

Thanks to AutoPatcher, I don't plan on touching Vista any time soon.

MicroSH*T can try anything they want, I'm NOT gonna
buy nor switch to Vista because they wanna FORCE me to do so.

And if MS "dealines" XP anytime soon, I'll Always find ways
to work around it and get it running again. <my middle finger to MS>

Originally Posted by AlecWest

And speaking of firewalls, while ZoneLabs has abandoned support for Win98SE,

http://www.r-firewall.com/

"Extends Windows XP Support " does not mean the same as retiring in 2008

that support cycle is the same as they always had more or less

ms is already throwing out a few rumors of windows 7 (replacement to vista) , which says a lot of the true pubic support of vista

Originally Posted by BJ_M

"Extends Windows XP Support " does not mean the same as retiring in 2008

Right. Also, that article was published in January. I'm getting the impression that Microsoft is trying to "scare" people into a Vista upgrade. However, if they find people can't be scared, I'd expect that the 2008 OEM sales deadline will be extended ... at least until a Vista version comes out that quiets its major critics.